I was flat water paddling again with outriggers today ,paddling my arse off to catch them .
i was using a naish GX carbon Javelin x28 .x14 285 litre.

why are we slower is it the length .?
the outriggers are 18 foot single man
is it because they are hollow ?
Is it because Im a **** paddler, don't answer that one .
is it because they float higher in the water and don't drag fins .
is it the rounded hull.

i could keep up with the kids just,but when the big boys are in them ... no way

last question is,there a board out there that can get close to their speed.?

I am no authority but I say:-

Yes to all of your list

And no to the last question.

ET.

It all comes down to drag and wetted area. The more contact you have with the water the more surface tension you have on the water. To keep it simple a Sup will have twice as much surface area on the water than an OC1 so that means twice as much drag plus it has far finer entry and release points.

If you could stand on a 12” wide Sup with the same entry and release points you might stand a chance. Jim Terrell has a video some where , where he stands up and paddles a K1 to prove the point. This when they were talking about regulating flat water Sup shapes.

Waterline length is (also) an important factor.

Longer normally = faster.

If you are after speed and efficiency, don't paddle a SUP. Most other forms of watercraft appeared out of vessels that had a commercial (eg. travel, fishing) or other serious (eg. life-saving) purpose. SUP appeared out of surfing, which is done just for it's own reward. It's a really stoooopid way to paddle, if anything except having fun is your goal. Of course, if having fun is your goal, then you've hit the motherload...

its frustrating ,knowing you'll never beat them,I was just hoping there is a stand out board out there.
Maybe in the future,
we are pretty fast anyway,and pleasure paddling ,is cool ,3 years ago I would of been sitting on the beach .before i caught the bug

Im just wondering if the 17' would close the gap.
like the new NSP 17.1'

9 years KI1/2/4 - flogg OC1
18 years OC - flogg SUP
6 months SUP , BUGGERED shoulder.
SUP are slow unless in the bumps !

PS. join a OC Club & improve your paddling.
Have a look at the current guns , lots of OC paddlers !
PJ , fix my shoulder this week end please

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Tardy said...
its frustrating ,knowing you'll never beat them,I was just hoping there is a stand out board out there.
Maybe in the future,
we are pretty fast anyway,and pleasure paddling ,is cool ,3 years ago I would of been sitting on the beach .before i caught the bug

Im just wondering if the 17' would close the gap.
like the new NSP 17.1'

A longer board would close the gap a little. But then you'd have no excuse for being slower ;)

Their boards are narrower and their paddles are shorter. If you want to go a more similar pace then get a very long narrow board, kneel down on it, and use one of their paddles. Short of that, you are totally stuffed. Standing up is a silly way to paddle unless it's just for fun.

And yes, downwind we get much closer. This is why downwinding is really the sport that SUP was designed for IMO. Very small waves, downwind, and light touring/exploring. And maybe certain giant waves also. For everything else there are better crafts, really, if performance is your goal. But why should it be...?

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Area10 said..

Tardy said...
its frustrating ,knowing you'll never beat them,I was just hoping there is a stand out board out there.
Maybe in the future,
we are pretty fast anyway,and pleasure paddling ,is cool ,3 years ago I would of been sitting on the beach .before i caught the bug

Im just wondering if the 17' would close the gap.
like the new NSP 17.1'

A longer board would close the gap a little. But then you'd have no excuse for being slower ;)

Their boards are narrower and their paddles are shorter. If you want to go a more similar pace then get a very long narrow board, kneel down on it, and use one of their paddles. Short of that, you are totally stuffed. Standing up is a silly way to paddle unless it's just for fun.

And yes, downwind we get much closer. This is why downwinding is really the sport that SUP was designed for IMO. Very small waves, downwind, and light touring/exploring. And maybe certain giant waves also. For everything else there are better crafts, really, if performance is your goal. But why should it be...?

SUP surfing is where its at for me.
but thanks for the comments.So far. It s clear .maybe with more practice speed paddling ,i can pass one.
I did pass a 6 man ,trouble was they where all ladies 65 and above .some of them where very big but it was great to see them giving it ago.
in general outriggers are faster,clear

Get an OC1 and join them

Never say never!
And why do you need excuses?
I have a 17'6" x 24" JM board that my 54 year old self finds challenging but possible to balance on, that is measurably faster over my somewhat casual paddles than my other boards.
On a 14' board, I need at least 26" wide to be comfortable, probably closer to 27".
If you want to give it a real go, get a 18' x 22" or something custom - JM or DC will probably make you one, and the longer boards will allow mere mortals to paddle narrower boards. But it needs to be a specialist flatwater board, no rocker.
Or just get an OC1 and sit down - I'm very tempted to broaden the paddling conditions it's possible to get wet in.
Just give it a crack!
The JM





Helmy comfortable on it.


Oh that sunshine and warm water seems a long time ago!
And then there's this, 17' x 24"





I can flatwater paddle it. Just.
Warwick is downwinding it in conditions I could not begin to contemplate.
But if you want to give it a go, there's plenty of options.
Don't die wondering.

i paddled behind one for a bit today,

outriggers are lighter so it takes less to get them moving
less resistance due to surface area
more glide

you could in theory use a bigger sup, but the extra width compared to the oc1 just ads resistance and weight,once you get it moving it would be fast but you would have to keep it moving and when compared to an oc1, you would have to be a very good/fit paddler to keep up with a half decent paddler in an oc1 let alone beat them

Jarryd

thanks for the photo s Nozza
thats more like it .

flatter rocker, longer .perfect.
it s on the list .

I was in a race on the weekend on my ACE GT and was about mid-field with the OC-1's that were there - get smoked by the top guys over the (just under) 10k's but i could keep up with the weekend warriors pretty easily !!!

I had a go on an OC-1 a while back and really enjoyed it - would love to pick one up in the near future assuming i win a rather large sum of money...

OC-1 looks a little bit interesting but it is still dragging yourself along while sitting on your arse. Standing up is just more fun.

Here is a good comparison to look at what different crafts can do.
You have some top ski, OC1, Prone and SUP paddlers in this race (Sup paddlers were on 14ft thru to 18ft boards)
In pretty much dead flat conditions with no wind or swell assistance.

www.webscorer.com/race?raceid=72077

If you are chasing speed then ski's are faster again. Having paddled both skis and OC's for many years, I have made the move across to SUP's not because they are faster but as kookonasup says...they are more fun and a more complete "whole body" form of exercise.

The water line on a ski or OC is significantly less as the centre of gravity sits a lot lower than a SUP, hence needing less. OC's obviously have the outrigger that creates more drag than a ski, plus the paddling motion of a ski is more seamless.

Having said that, paddling a SUP into the wind is a PITA where as sitting on your date on a OC or ski does not create as much drag.

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shi thouse said..

Having said that, paddling a SUP into the wind is a PITA where as sitting on your date on a OC or ski does not create as much drag.

Yeah, about the only time they are better and really, its the workout I am chasing so still prefer a sup, unless i cant get home

Tail rocker makes surf SUP slow also.

I come from a background of C1 Downriver (Wildwater) paddling where the boats are within a couple of centimetres length wise of a 14' SUP and the paddling style pretty much exactly the same other than a much shorter paddle length. The C1 is substantially faster largely due to being able to sit (kneel) much lower hence a substantially lower centre of gravity and as such the waterline width can be much narrower. A outrigger can be even narrower again and add in the extra length which generally has even more effect on speed than width and they end up even faster again although you can get some pretty long SUPs. I guess from that I would say the biggest factor making a SUP inherently slower is the fact that you have to stand on it rather than sit.

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shi thouse said..
If you are chasing speed then ski's are faster again. Having paddled both skis and OC's for many years, I have made the move across to SUP's not because they are faster but as kookonasup says...they are more fun and a more complete "whole body" form of exercise.

The water line on a ski or OC is significantly less as the centre of gravity sits a lot lower than a SUP, hence needing less. OC's obviously have the outrigger that creates more drag than a ski, plus the paddling motion of a ski is more seamless.

Having said that, paddling a SUP into the wind is a PITA where as sitting on your date on a OC or ski does not create as much drag.

Thanks **** house .my aim is not to beat them but keep close .my speed is close ,my jav has a fair bit of rocker in the nose .where the va'a ,none ,more of a cutting blade
i have Va'a d before ..I do like the look of nozzas big boys .
i think I would like to go longer and narrower .I don't really like the outriggers due to ,moving them .monuvability .turning .and sitting on your arse .
been there done that .

are sups going to get faster in the future .?.I don't think SUPS Have started yet .exciting times ahead I reckon .

i have both SUP's and an OC1.

My OC1 is about 1km/h faster than my flat-water board in still conditions. Having said that I would rather stand than sit if I have the option, and downwinding nothing even comes close to how much more fun it is on a sup

Trav G held an OC clinic last year for us in the west and attributed his and others success in SUP to putting in time on an OC. And dialing in a crew in an OC6 is like being a V8 super car at full noise!!

Thanks uleash.thats about the speed they where pulling away from me.

G'day Tardy if you wanna paddle a SUP as fast as an OC1 you can do it on a Maliko Downwind Run very easy and unless the OC1 paddler is a real gun you will smash any OC1 paddler on a Maliko run, with ease.

Maliko was so Epic today just surfed the whole way "Yes Please Mr Wizard"

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Downwinder said..
G'day Tardy if you wanna paddle a SUP as fast as an OC1 you can do it on a Maliko Downwind Run very easy and unless the OC1 paddler is a real gun you will smash any OC1 paddler on a Maliko run, with ease.

Maliko was so Epic today just surfed the whole way "Yes Please Mr Wizard"

Sounds amazing .
like a ever lasting wave ,.....

maybe next year.

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Todzilla said..
I was in a race on the weekend on my ACE GT and was about mid-field with the OC-1's that were there - get smoked by the top guys over the (just under) 10k's but i could keep up with the weekend warriors pretty easily !!!

I had a go on an OC-1 a while back and really enjoyed it - would love to pick one up in the near future assuming i win a rather large sum of money...

Smoked by the top female on the day too - my first race in an OC1. Coming from SUP I find the OC1 much easier to apply power to and go faster. It was nice to be able to chase the top SUP paddlers down. Riding OC has also helped with my SUP technique, fitness and conditioning. Whatever it is it's great to be on the water and having fun ????

I was waiting for that Bernie!!!

Was a top result (literally) for your first race as well. Looked like a lot of fun - certainly for the first 7km's...!!!