I think I need a graph of some sort to explain it to me fully

Sounds logical Jonesy.

Might have to give this one a try.

Thanks for posting.

ET.

Sounds legit. What about the exit phase of the stroke though? I think the winglet would create a bit of drag.

^ Tried a pre-announcement 84 a few months ago but was sworn to secrecy at the time. The release is super-clean (the "winglets"...such as they are, are actually quite tiny)

Will have the NZ ones this week!!!!! Can't wait to put it to the test photos and all

Gotta say, I agree, the winglets produce no drag and have a super smooth release. Can't wait to get mine!

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djoblin said...
Will have the NZ ones this week!!!!! Can't wait to put it to the test photos and all

Have the day off Friday.
Hopefully that will be the day

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HumanCartoon said...
^ Tried a pre-announcement 84 a few months ago but was sworn to secrecy at the time. The release is super-clean (the "winglets"...such as they are, are actually quite tiny)

The winglets are quite subtle but they have a huge impact on the way water flows off the blade edges.
Here's a couple of shots that clearly shows them.
It's a pretty innovative design element and the first time it's been applied to paddles.

I'm surprised this is a surprise and only just coming out now. It appears to be a standup paddle version that some what resembles the kayak/surfski wing blade technology that has been around for decades. From what the picture shows. I could be wrong!

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greggyd said...
I'm surprised this is a surprise and only just coming out now. It appears to be a standup paddle version that some what resembles the kayak/surfski wing blade technology that has been around for decades. From what the picture shows. I could be wrong!

The winglets are very different to a kayak/ski wing blade.
The kayak wing blade is designed to catch and hold a heap of water through the stroke.
The winglets on the Konihi blade do nothing to increase the catch but they definitely prevent a lot of blade slippage and therefore provide added drive through the stroke.....they do this by directing the vortices that spin off each edge (dirty turbulent water) away from the blade edges so that the back of the blade can grip to clean water.
With a normal SUP blade, the dirty water wraps around the back of the blade promoting slippage as the blade can't grip the dirty water.
The Konihi winglets also provide amazing blade stability and absolutely zero flutter.
It's hard to go back to using anything else once you've paddled with one for a while.
The team guys that scored a pre-production blade for testing are loving them and reckon they are quicker with a Konihi than their other blades

It looks like the Naish 8.5 paddle from 2013 which came as Kaholo and Makani. They discontinued that paddle for this year, I quite liked it, but winglets added quite a bit of weight.

PeterP

the Naish paddle has the ridges on the face of the blade not the back. also very different shape

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djoblin said...
PeterP

the Naish paddle has the ridges on the face of the blade not the back. also very different shape

Apologies - none of those photos actually show it too well.

An alternate to DKs QB?

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Deano72 said...

HumanCartoon said...
^ Tried a pre-announcement 84 a few months ago but was sworn to secrecy at the time. The release is super-clean (the "winglets"...such as they are, are actually quite tiny)

The winglets are quite subtle but they have a huge impact on the way water flows off the blade edges.
Here's a couple of shots that clearly shows them.
It's a pretty innovative design element and the first time it's been applied to paddles.

yeah cant really see them in the photos ?? Have to maybe see Casso paddle in the flesh, though would this be for a surfing paddle or more racing im guessing? Good too see people trying new or different stuff

Looks interesting.. I wonder if they (the winglets) will catch and drag if used on a downwinder at those times when you skim the back face of your paddle along the surface of the water once you're surfing on a runner or is this paddle just a flat water race paddle?

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DavidJohn said...
Looks interesting.. I wonder if they (the winglets) will catch and drag if used on a downwinder at those times when you skim the back face of your paddle along the surface of the water once you're surfing on a runner or is this paddle just a flat water race paddle?

The winglets are quite subtle and wouldn't catch any more than any other blade could.
The blade has been specifically designed with efficiency in mind.
The benefits of an efficient blade are apparent with any SUP discipline....except maybe whitewater paddling

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dtm said...
yeah cant really see them in the photos ?? Have to maybe see Casso paddle in the flesh, though would this be for a surfing paddle or more racing im guessing? Good too see people trying new or different stuff

Casso will have one very soon.
The winglets are quite noticeable when you know what you're looking for.
No reason why this blade couldn't be used for surfing.....would suit anyone after a narrow, higher aspect blade.
The benefits it offers would be far more noticeable when paddling something with a bit of glide (race board).

Before people get overly caught up by so called suggested outcomes from speculative data collected from the company who have a vested interest in promoting this product lets see if we can get some independant testing to determine the veracity of the said claims. Dont get sucked in by colorful and impressive references to science
which on the surface here is not backed up by the appropriate testing.

The fact this this technology works well when applied to design principles in the realm of aerodynamics does not necessarily represent a logical extension to that of a paddle. Until such time as I see appropriate referencing to testing performed by reputable parties other than the company itself, I would urge cautionary expectations.

Cheers Ozzie

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ghost4man said...
Before people get overly caught up by so called suggested outcomes from speculative data collected from the company who have a vested interest in promoting this product lets see if we can get some independant testing to determine the veracity of the said claims. Dont get sucked in by colorful and impressive references to science
which on the surface here is not backed up by the appropriate testing.

The fact this this technology works well when applied to design principles in the realm of aerodynamics does not necessarily represent a logical extension to that of a paddle. Until such time as I see appropriate referencing to testing performed by reputable parties other than the company itself, I would urge cautionary expectations.

Cheers Ozzie

Thanks for your concerns Ozzie.
As the distributor for this brand, I would hope that no one gets sucked into purchasing anything based on marketing alone....and that goes for any product from any brand.

In our sport all reputable brands make their product available for demo and no one should purchase anything without making sure the product meets their needs and expectations. Try before you buy and if you don't love what you're trying, don't buy it. When your local Ke Nalu dealer has a demo available, grab it and give it a test yourself....that beats any testing done by anyone else, reputable or otherwise.....unless of course you buy stuff just because Mr 'X' or Mrs 'Y' is paid to use it.

You can rest assured there has been a heap of testing of this new blade, both in house and by some of our country's top paddlers....some of them team paddlers, some of them not. This testing process and prototyping took place over a period well over 6 months to make sure the design was nailed. Ke Nalu are not interested in rushing products to the market. It's more important to us that a product is as good as it can be rather than trying to hit the market at the best time of year to maximise sales. We have received nothing but positive feedback from all the crew that have tested the final production design.

Do a little research and you will find that there are many parallels between aerodynamics and hydrodynamics. Gasses (air) and fluids (water) behave in a similar manner. Have you ever seen the testing of scale models of racing yachts and power boats performed in a wind tunnel to test designs below the water line....google it....it's fascinating stuff for anyone with an interest science but probably pretty boring for anyone else

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Deano72 said...

ghost4man said...
Before people get overly caught up by so called suggested outcomes from speculative data collected from the company who have a vested interest in promoting this product lets see if we can get some independant testing to determine the veracity of the said claims. Dont get sucked in by colorful and impressive references to science
which on the surface here is not backed up by the appropriate testing.

The fact this this technology works well when applied to design principles in the realm of aerodynamics does not necessarily represent a logical extension to that of a paddle. Until such time as I see appropriate referencing to testing performed by reputable parties other than the company itself, I would urge cautionary expectations.

Cheers Ozzie

Thanks for your concerns Ozzie.
As the distributor for this brand, I would hope that no one gets sucked into purchasing anything based on marketing alone??and that goes for any product from any brand.

In our sport all reputable brands make their product available for demo and no one should purchase anything without making sure the product meets their needs and expectations. Try before you buy and if you don?t love what you?re trying, don?t buy it. When your local Ke Nalu dealer has a demo available, grab it and give it a test yourself?..that beats any testing done by anyone else, reputable or otherwise?..unless of course you buy stuff just because Mr ?X? or Mrs ?Y? is paid to use it.

You can rest assured there has been a heap of testing of this new blade, both in house and by some of our country?s top paddlers?..some of them team paddlers, some of them not. This testing process and prototyping took place over a period well over 6 months to make sure the design was nailed. Ke Nalu are not interested in rushing products to the market. It?s more important to us that a product is as good as it can be rather than trying to hit the market at the best time of year to maximise sales. We have received nothing but positive feedback from all the crew that have tested the final production design.

Do a little research and you will find that there are many parallels between aerodynamics and hydrodynamics. Gasses (air) and fluids (water) behave in a similar manner. Have you ever seen the testing of scale models of racing yachts and power boats performed in a wind tunnel to test designs below the water line?..google it?..it?s fascinating stuff for anyone with an interest science but probably pretty boring for anyone else

Dean I just want to address some following points.

Firstly, I have no doubts that there has been "some" testing that has taken place along the way but whether or not this testing is conducted by relevant outside organisations with no vested interest remains to be seen. Who are the "crew" you refer to who are involved in the testing schedule? Are they contracted paddlers who receive payment from the company. These are the sorts of questions that are asked and one would expect for them to be addressed. I understand that a reputable company will conduct the necessary due diligence but along the way there is also an expectation that R&D will yield a return. This is a profit driven business where board manufacturers will release "new" boards where the only difference between a previous model and the new one is little more than a paint job so forgive me if I sound less than enthusiastic by the promotion spiel. You say the following:
"Do a little research and you will find that there are many parallets between aerodynamics and hydrodynamics"

With respect Dean and I am not about to school you on the above but you make a very ambiguous reference if one considers
that there are in fact huge differences between the two modalities so it serves as little comfort to be conflating the two. Does the fact that a dimpled golf ball travels further than a smoothly shaped one due to fact that these indentations make "turbulators" mean that we should we make every device meant to be used in the water to have a dimpled surface? Clearly the answer is no as there are many factors involved here. I agree the complexities of the science involved does make for raw reading but it can be simplified and backed up by the appropriate testing and of course there is no better scientific test than one done by yourself out on the water. I hope you dont consider my comments to be too obtuse but I have become weary about the latest and greatest device to come out on the market which can apparently do everything apart from wiping your backside

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ghost4man said...
Dean I just want to address some following points.

Firstly, I have no doubts that there has been "some" testing that has taken place along the way but whether or not this testing is conducted by relevant outside organisations with no vested interest remains to be seen. Who are the "crew" you refer to who are involved in the testing schedule? Are they contracted paddlers who receive payment from the company. These are the sorts of questions that are asked and one would expect for them to be addressed. I understand that a reputable company will conduct the necessary due diligence but along the way there is also an expectation that R&D will yield a return. This is a profit driven business where board manufacturers will release "new" boards where the only difference between a previous model and the new one is little more than a paint job so forgive me if I sound less than enthusiastic by the promotion spiel. You say the following:
"Do a little research and you will find that there are many parallets between aerodynamics and hydrodynamics"

With respect Dean and I am not about to school you on the above but you make a very ambiguous reference if one considers
that there are in fact huge differences between the two modalities so it serves as little comfort to be conflating the two. Does the fact that a dimpled golf ball travels further than a smoothly shaped one due to fact that these indentations make "turbulators" mean that we should we make every device meant to be used in the water to have a dimpled surface? Clearly the answer is no as there are many factors involved here. I agree the complexities of the science involved does make for raw reading but it can be simplified and backed up by the appropriate testing and of course there is no better scientific test than one done by yourself out on the water. I hope you dont consider my comments to be too obtuse but I have become weary about the latest and greatest device to come out on the market which can apparently do everything apart from wiping your backside

Like I said earlier, give one a demo and make your mind up for yourself.
None of our team at this stage receive payment.....only gear....and we didn't go chasing them
And thanks for not giving me a 'schooling'.....I received enough of that gaining my engineering qualifications

Dean said:Like I said earlier, give one a demo and make your mind up for yourself. None of our team at this stage receive payment.....only gear....and we didn't go chasing them And thanks for not giving me a 'schooling'.....I received enough of that gaining my engineering qualifications Thats okay Dean I appreciate that. I know that you will equally appreciate that in the absence of any mention as to what speciality you majored in given how many different modalities there are in engineering I did not want to bore you with a study in mathematics and in particular hydrology. One has to be mindful that the person you are engaging in dialogue with has met the prerequisites so a discussion in laminar and turbulent flow and its associated mathematical translation may not have been of great interest to you Touche

Your gentlemanly response is admirable and I do like the fighting spirit

I just had an idea for a grant. Sometimes happens when I doze off at the keyboard.

I intend to try one and see if it paddles good or not, at that stage I may open my wallet and pass some readies over to the store. During that time I will allow you blokes to argue over various modalities and transmogrification. I love my KeNalu, but I also love my Mike Fry paddle, I also really like the wife's Naish Paddle.

1)A meteorologist would tell you that Earth has a liquid atmosphere(gas behaving as liquid)
2)As an x sponsored shortboarder I can say that apart from the top guys that do get paid most guys are happy to be getting anything.......and..
3)I think it was explained quite well the first time so all degrees aside I agree that testing and more testing and feed back off both well accomplished and novice paddlers should be taken into account(after all they are for everybody.

Some better images showing the "winglets" Trying it out today. Very cool looking paddle though will post pictures of all the models later.

Hey Deano, can you let me know who's got them available for demo around Torquay?

and following on from an earlier comment of yours about not chasing your team members, I'd be very happy to be part of the team!

I just hope that doesnt mean I have to start going in comps, though.......

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Tang said...
Hey Deano, can you let me know who's got them available for demo around Torquay?

and following on from an earlier comment of yours about not chasing your team members, I'd be very happy to be part of the team!

I just hope that doesnt mean I have to start going in comps, though.......

G'day Tang
Have a chat to Dave at Core Boardsports in Geelong.
They should have a demo available.
Alternatively see if you can catch up with Matt Takle.....he's a Torquay local and team member and might be kind enough give you a go. His paddles might be a bit short for you though
As for becoming a team member.....not only do you need to do comps (or races), you gotta win 'em

Deano,

Would be interesting to know what sort of nanotechnology methods are incorporated in the construction of not just these paddles but ones in general.

h2opaddles.com/blogs/news Cheers Ozzie