Hi all

Hope everyone is having a great week.

Just wondering if anyone is aware of any SUP surf videos showing guys getting out through the white wash. There is a nice video below showing techniques on race boards but looking at shorter boards.



I'm new to SUP and quickly becoming addicted. Although I do find it quite intimidating getting out there considering i've not surfed before and am becoming more aware of some of the hostility from shortboarders to SUP's. Luckily I havent experienced any negativity so far. I stay away from line ups and try to find my own little spot to play/practice.

Also wanted to say what an awesome site and community this is.

Regards

Jon

Going through breaking waves is very hard in SUP, it will take time and practice. My tips:
- Avoid it in space. Look at how the spot is working, and find ways to get around most them. Even if you must paddle a 500 meters detour.
- Avoid it in time. Wait for a lull and sprint through the impact zones.
- Falling while getting through whitewater is dangerous, as you can be hit by the board as you are close to it. Learn to bail early and away if you are not confident, and of course be always sure that no other people are behind you.
- Have a quality, sturdy leash. Inspect it after each session and change it if you see scratches or nicks in the cord.
- Never knee paddle, it is very dangerous. Either prone paddle or stand up.
- Gather speed before hitting the whitewater, balance is very hard if the board ends up moving backwards at the end. Do not forget to transmit this speed to the board, throw the board forward with your hips/legs, to counter the backwards push of the foam.
- Time your paddle strokes so that you dig it during going through, it is an important balance point. Keep the blade in the water, not in the air
- The whitewater will lift your board, so you must anticipate for it, and let it move up without pushing you: jump a bit just before, and let it move up by flexing your knees. If the board lifts you, it will push out off balance. Stiff knees are your enemy.
- Practice a lot to be able to read the whitewater and find the weakest places in it. It is hard and will need lots of practice.

All of Colas' suggestions are very good. But if you find you still can't paddle over the top of the wave (or find a rip or get out through a lull), here are some other suggestions for getting out the back.

** I do have a theory and I don't know if others would agree - I would rather my leg-rope was tight (i.e. stretched a little) when the wave hits the board rather than allowing the wave to hit it, yank it, accelerate it, and put more force on the leg rope (and your leg and anything that may accidentally get tangled (feet, toes, etc.)). I feel that reduces the risk of injury and the risk of the leggie breaking.

+ Paddle toward the breaking wave and then dive under at an angle - if the wave is at 12:00, at the last moment paddle towards 2:00 and dive deep and long under the wave toward 10:00 (as long as there is no chance you will hit bottom). This ensures the board won't come back and get you, and you make progress under the water, and it causes the leggie to straighten before the wave hits the board.

+ If you are getting hit by wave after wave (and you are not ready to give up), then get to your feet, get in a paddle or two, and dive forward as above. Every few feet of progress can help - it can put you just far enough forward so you get over the next wave.

+ You can do the same thing on your knees. Let's say you recover from one wave, quickly get to your knees, paddle a 4-5 times towards the next wave, and then turn the board towards 2:00 and dive from your knees towards 10:00. (Some people say that paddling on your knees is a no-no, but sometimes it is all you can do to make progress towards the next wave.)

+ Try to paddle over the top (if it isn't too big), but kick the board towards 2:00 while you dive towards 10:00 if you know you can't stay balanced - it stops the board from being dragged back by the wave, and ensures the board does not kick up and hit you.

+ If you can't get to your knees or feet before the next wave will hit, turn your back to the wave, get the board fins-down, hold the paddle in one hand (and don't let go) and the rear of the board in the other (pointing towards shore). Just before the wave hits, use the hand on the end of the board to lift yourself up as you push the board away towards shore - and you go down under the wave. Reasons: the leggie will be stretched before the wave hits; you will drop under the wave and won't be pulled along as much; the board will often stay fins-down and won't tombstone (dragging you towards shore); it will be easier to drag the board back toward you so you can get back on quickly. But remember, beware not to get your fingers, toes, feet, ankles, etc. tangled in the leggie.

+ When you get the board back you need to learn to get back on quickly. Lay your paddle across the board at right-angles so the handle is on the right side, with the paddle in the water providing lots of stability 0- see my crappy sketch below. Put your lead hand on the paddle shaft and place your other hand on your board then climb up - always keeping downward pressure on the shaft - you will be amazed how much more stable your board will be. Keep your hand on the shaft as you stand up, then grab it and stick the paddle in the water ASAP - it will increase your stability. This will get you on your board quickly in water that can be turbulent after the wave has just gone by, and you will be stable so you can start paddling quickly.

Sorry for the essay, but I have been doing this a LOT lately (surfing at a beach break with no rips, etc.) and it has really helped me get out through 100 m + of pretty good size breaking waves.

Interested in why paddling on your knees is a no no?

I always do this and find it's the only way to get out back sometimes especially if it's big2ver and closer together.

Obviously you need to bail if in the impact zone (the 12, 2, 10 explanation above is great and I find is still possible or on knees).

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devsadv said..
Interested in why paddling on your knees is a no no?

I always do this and find it's the only way to get out back sometimes especially if it's big2ver and closer together.

Obviously you need to bail if in the impact zone (the 12, 2, 10 explanation above is great and I find is still possible or on knees).

I agree - it should not be considered a no-no, but I have read it many times and had it said to me. Having said that, going through the breaking wave on your knees is risky - your head is that much closer to the board and I have stopped doing it (unless the wave is pretty small) because of a lot of close calls (fending the board away from smashing my face). I often paddle on my knees when it is turbulent and I want to get moving quickly, but again, I will avoid going through the wave on my knees.

timing like colas said. Know when to gun it when to
hold back and what heh said about where to paddle out. Where are you surfing?

Patience is a big one, waiting in the right spot for the right gap to make a run for it.

The reward is worth it with beach breaks - having a peak to your self is one of life's pleasures on a SUP.

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devsadv said..
Interested in why paddling on your knees is a no no?

- You do not have leverage to prevent the nose of the board to hit you in the face
- It takes time: you lose previous seconds compared to just laying down on the board and prone paddling. Sprinting while proning is so much faster, practice it so that you are comfortable with the paddle either with the blade under you chest or to your side (or handle in the hand, dragging paddle in the water like the pros do)
- You have less agility to bail away from the board. Standing up, you can push on your legs, and proning, you push on your arms
- It destroys your board by creating big depressions under the knees
- It didn't happen to me, but one guy told us here (or on the Zone?) that a wave pushed it backwards and ripped off his toenails on the pad grooves... I cringe just thinking of it.

- And... it labels you instantly as a kook :-) Seriously, it can make surfers less tolerant of you and more quick to lash at you if they have a bad day, or just are assh*les.

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cantSUPenough said..
+ If you are getting hit by wave after wave (and you are not ready to give up)

On the beachbreaks I surf, most of the time the waves break hard in an impact zone, then dissipate somehow, before reforming later, often for the shorebreak.

So I find it easier to just let the waves push me a bit towards the beach up to a place where the foam is less powerful, where I can either wait for a lull or paddle sideways to get into an outbound rip. In the same way, I sometimes end a ride paddling a bit towards the beach to get in this calmer zone, to better prepare my going back out route and timing.

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colas said..

devsadv said..
Interested in why paddling on your knees is a no no?

- You do not have leverage to prevent the nose of the board to hit you in the face
- It takes time: you lose previous seconds compared to just laying down on the board and prone paddling. Sprinting while proning is so much faster, practice it so that you are comfortable with the paddle either with the blade under you chest or to your side (or handle in the hand, dragging paddle in the water like the pros do)
- You have less agility to bail away from the board. Standing up, you can push on your legs, and proning, you push on your arms
- It destroys your board by creating big depressions under the knees
- It didn't happen to me, but one guy told us here (or on the Zone?) that a wave pushed it backwards and ripped off his toenails on the pad grooves... I cringe just thinking of it.

- And... it labels you instantly as a kook :-) Seriously, it can make surfers less tolerant of you and more quick to lash at you if they have a bad day, or just are assh*les.

Cheers. All good reasons!

I'm a definite kook, but nobody became Kai Kenny without practicing. I always steer clear of others

The two game changers for me in the journey from beginner to something closer to intermediate were: prone paddling and breath management.
Prone paddling is great if you end up getting stuck in the deeper water around the first break. It is much faster to get onto the board and start paddling, so you can take those gaps that might not work due to the longer time involved in getting to kneeling or standing stance in deep water. Prone paddling made things way easier for me in more beach break situations where the channels are less available. If you are in shallow water around the second break, then standing is better as it's easier to get on the board and then work your way through the smaller white wash.

Breath management hasn't helped me get out faster, but it makes the overall surfing experience way more enjoyable.
It's easier (and nicer) to hold your breath if you are relaxed and not puffed.
What I used to do was paddle out as fast as I could. If a big set came, I'd paddle faster to try and avoid it - but still often get caught and hammered while out of breath, which freaked me out badly a couple of times- and definitely reduced my confidence to try and catch bigger waves as I was scared of getting caught in the brak zone.
Now I focus on staying calm and keeping the breathing even and low even if it means paddling slower, especially in the break zone. So now if a big set comes, I don't bother trying to paddle hard, but instead take a couple of big calm breaths and relax. Yup, I still take the set on the head, but it is no drama as breathing after each wave is easy . So once the set has passed I get on the board and prone paddle out the back - keen to try for the bigger waves as I know I can handle getting caught.
That is probably second nature for experienced surfers, but it has made a huge difference to me and I'm interested to know if others do something similar.

Hope that helps and enjoy the learning!

Hamish

Couple of good vids. Both show some knee action.
I agree about damaging boards with knees, especially poorly constructed ones.
But caring about what others think? Pffffft. Really?
The only board I've owned that tried to wack me in the face was a wide yellow one, with too much nose rocker, that tried to smash my teeth in a couple of times. Whilst I was standing up.
Harden up. Crack out your anti stink-eye shield. Don your kook hat, cause you may be older and going bald, or just don't like the idea of skin cancer. Don't be arrogant and lob in to the middle of a crowded line up. Take advantage of your paddle, and surf away from wankers. Most of them are too lazy to venture too far from where they parked anyway.
All I ever wanted to learn was how to catch a wave, turn off it, and paddle back without falling off, just by moving my feet. Doing that now, not perfectly, but slowly getting better. Starting to practice the surf stance on the way back out. It's hard, but hope I get there too, whilst I'm still on the right side of the grass and able.
I use my knees sometimes, especially at the end of a 2 or 3 hour session, when I am truly rooted. probably always will. Try to sit back on my haunches to get the hard knobbly bits up off the deck.
Do your own thing.
Have fun!

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HBsups said..
The two game changers for me in the journey from beginner to something closer to intermediate were: prone paddling and breath management.
Prone paddling is great if you end up getting stuck in the deeper water around the first break. It is much faster to get onto the board and start paddling, so you can take those gaps that might not work due to the longer time involved in getting to kneeling or standing stance in deep water. Prone paddling made things way easier for me in more beach break situations where the channels are less available. If you are in shallow water around the second break, then standing is better as it's easier to get on the board and then work your way through the smaller white wash.

Breath management hasn't helped me get out faster, but it makes the overall surfing experience way more enjoyable.
It's easier (and nicer) to hold your breath if you are relaxed and not puffed.
What I used to do was paddle out as fast as I could. If a big set came, I'd paddle faster to try and avoid it - but still often get caught and hammered while out of breath, which freaked me out badly a couple of times- and definitely reduced my confidence to try and catch bigger waves as I was scared of getting caught in the brak zone.
Now I focus on staying calm and keeping the breathing even and low even if it means paddling slower, especially in the break zone. So now if a big set comes, I don't bother trying to paddle hard, but instead take a couple of big calm breaths and relax. Yup, I still take the set on the head, but it is no drama as breathing after each wave is easy . So once the set has passed I get on the board and prone paddle out the back - keen to try for the bigger waves as I know I can handle getting caught.
That is probably second nature for experienced surfers, but it has made a huge difference to me and I'm interested to know if others do something similar.

Hope that helps and enjoy the learning!

Hamish

Your breath management comments are very good. During hold-downs I focus on staying calm - I tell myself that I can hold my breath for a long time if I need to. In reality, a lot of the hold-downs are not that long but it is easy to "panic" which only makes things worse. If you reach down and grab your leggie at your knee you can pull yourself back toward the board (which is on the surface) and you will get back to the surface much more quickly.

Personally I don't like prone paddling, even though I did it for years as a "surfer". Maybe I need to practice more, but I keep finding I stuff up the position of the paddle - it takes me too long to get it right. Personally I can get to my knees more quickly and do some big, deep paddles to get moving quickly. But that is just me. (Plus if you are on your knees you can either jump to your feet to go through the wave, or dive off under the wave.)

I am going to try prone paddling again to see if I can get better at it.

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cantSUPenough said..
Maybe I need to practice more, but I keep finding I stuff up the position of the paddle - it takes me too long to get it right.

There is 3 ways to manage the paddle that I now of, but there may be more:

- On the board, along your side. This is the quickest way to start paddling as soon as possible. It does not work well to go through small breaking waves, but this is not the point: I use this technique to sprint through the impact zone, so either I pull it off and have no whitewater to go through and the paddle stay in place, or I get caught and have to bail out anyways.

- in front of you, blade under the chest. The traditional position, that you must be speaking of and takes some time to set up, but best for long distances. You can practice to speed it up, do not forget to start paddling with the other arm while putting the paddle in place for gaining some precious seconds. Be careful however that the blade not be across the pad edge, as it may damage the blade with the board movements.

- Paddling with the handle in hand, like the pros do. (Note that pros do not knee-paddle, as prone paddling is so much more effective). It is not natural, but quite effective, and ultra fast to start paddling... Hold your paddle handle with the thumb and the index, but spread your other fingers for paddling power. Also try to lift the blade out of the water when plunging the hand (acts as a lever) so that the paddle does not move sideways (the blade catching the water at an angle) when pulling on the arm. It is less effective than the other two in terms of pure paddling speeds, so pro use it in tight critical situations to "get out of here" quick.
I must say I use it more to swim with the paddle than prone paddling though, I need more practice for using it on the board. Bernd Roediger shows how it is done here (I captured it from a video on the 2017 Sunset Pro):



Note that I sometimes prone paddle a bit during a session to vary the muscle efforts.

I wouldn't think too much about it......you are going to get hammered now and again.....just go for it.

Knee paddling looks so cumbersome and downright kooky

I often prone paddle out of tricky situations with the paddle jammed under my chest

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quikdrawMcgraw said..
Knee paddling looks so cumbersome and downright kooky

I often prone paddle out of tricky situations with the paddle jammed under my chest

Fine by me.
Just one of the reasons why I took up SUP surfing in the first place.
I have many prone surfing friends. My kids and my bro prone surf. And I admire them.
Some of my prone surf mates have tried SUP, and admire what we do. It's not easy.
Personally, prone paddling a 28" plus board looks like a penguin trying to paddle a pallet. But I would never hold that against anyone, or advise them to do otherwise.
Do what you have to do to get back out there and on to the next wave.

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colas said..

cantSUPenough said..
Maybe I need to practice more, but I keep finding I stuff up the position of the paddle - it takes me too long to get it right.

There is 3 ways to manage the paddle that I now of, but there may be more:

- On the board, along your side. This is the quickest way to start paddling as soon as possible. It does not work well to go through small breaking waves, but this is not the point: I use this technique to sprint through the impact zone, so either I pull it off and have no whitewater to go through and the paddle stay in place, or I get caught and have to bail out anyways.

- in front of you, blade under the chest. The traditional position, that you must be speaking of and takes some time to set up, but best for long distances. You can practice to speed it up, do not forget to start paddling with the other arm while putting the paddle in place for gaining some precious seconds. Be careful however that the blade not be across the pad edge, as it may damage the blade with the board movements.

- Paddling with the handle in hand, like the pros do. (Note that pros do not knee-paddle, as prone paddling is so much more effective). It is not natural, but quite effective, and ultra fast to start paddling... Hold your paddle handle with the thumb and the index, but spread your other fingers for paddling power. Also try to lift the blade out of the water when plunging the hand (acts as a lever) so that the paddle does not move sideways (the blade catching the water at an angle) when pulling on the arm. It is less effective than the other two in terms of pure paddling speeds, so pro use it in tight critical situations to "get out of here" quick.
I must say I use it more to swim with the paddle than prone paddling though, I need more practice for using it on the board. Bernd Roediger shows how it is done here (I captured it from a video on the 2017 Sunset Pro):



Note that I sometimes prone paddle a bit during a session to vary the muscle efforts.

Thanks for putting that together, Colas. I hadn't even thought about prone paddling with the paddle in my hand. You are right, I have been sticking the blade under my chest and it is easy to waste time, and occasionally get the blade in a position that hurts.

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Brenno said..

quikdrawMcgraw said..
Knee paddling looks so cumbersome and downright kooky

I often prone paddle out of tricky situations with the paddle jammed under my chest

Fine by me.
Just one of the reasons why I took up SUP surfing in the first place.
I have many prone surfing friends. My kids and my bro prone surf. And I admire them.
Some of my prone surf mates have tried SUP, and admire what we do. It's not easy.
Personally, prone paddling a 28" plus board looks like a penguin trying to paddle a pallet. But I would never hold that against anyone, or advise them to do otherwise.
Do what you have to do to get back out there and on to the next wave.

Penguins can surf pallets really stylishly

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quikdrawMcgraw said..

Brenno said..

quikdrawMcgraw said..
Knee paddling looks so cumbersome and downright kooky

I often prone paddle out of tricky situations with the paddle jammed under my chest

Fine by me.
Just one of the reasons why I took up SUP surfing in the first place.
I have many prone surfing friends. My kids and my bro prone surf. And I admire them.
Some of my prone surf mates have tried SUP, and admire what we do. It's not easy.
Personally, prone paddling a 28" plus board looks like a penguin trying to paddle a pallet. But I would never hold that against anyone, or advise them to do otherwise.
Do what you have to do to get back out there and on to the next wave.

Penguins can surf pallets really stylishly

Haha. Touche'.

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colas said..

- Paddling with the handle in hand, like the pros do. (Note that pros do not knee-paddle, as prone paddling is so much more effective). It is not natural, but quite effective, and ultra fast to start paddling... Hold your paddle handle with the thumb and the index, but spread your other fingers for paddling power. Also try to lift the blade out of the water when plunging the hand (acts as a lever) so that the paddle does not move sideways (the blade catching the water at an angle) when pulling on the arm. It is less effective than the other two in terms of pure paddling speeds, so pro use it in tight critical situations to "get out of here" quick.

A while ago I saw Kai Bates doing this down our way and I thought it looked like a great idea.... I am nowhere in his class and definitely not pro by any stretch, but thought I would give it a crack and what do you know.... it works really good for getting some speed up when you are on the inside. If you get the opportunity, after a few strokes to pick up some speed you can pop straight up to your feet and quickly get paddling again. I try to time it with the board cresting a bump and it seems to work most times....

I am not a young bloke but hate paddling on my knees. Give it a try and you might surprise yourself....

I tried prone paddling today with the paddle in my hand - worked a treat!

So what about the advice here ?
Note the knees

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Gboots said..
So what about the advice here ?

Good advice, especially how to handle the board while walking in water for people who have never surfed before.

Only the knee paddling part is bad and dangerous advice. Ironically, at the start of the video, they use a knee paddling position to show the danger of getting the board in the face...

You guys forgot bailing your board and diving under, works every time. And if your on a high enough volume board, c'mon, the knee paddle is epic for a choppy rip/mixed current section. Admit it, the knee's a actually good some times.

Joseph, you must not have read my essay above Diving works well for me.

I have continued to try prone paddling, it has helped a lot. I would recommend that you bend your knees to keep your feet up and away from the paddle. A couple of times I jammed the paddle into my feet...it doesn't tickle...

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JosephBetts said..
Admit it, the knee's a actually good some times.

The point is that every time, prone paddling is even better.

At least, it seems that people stopped knee-paddling like with a kayak, paddling with the handle on one side...

Benoit Carpentier is quite impressive.
First half at his home in Brittany, then in Hossegor famous beach break "La Graviere" (I never go there, the crowds are too much for me)

There is no way to prone paddle over white wash , zero chance of duckdiving,paddling out standing on a sub 8 board too hard to keep momentum over whitewash get thrown most times.
Get way more leverage knee paddling so much easier getting over wash.

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colas said..

JosephBetts said..
Admit it, the knee's a actually good some times.

The point is that every time, prone paddling is even better.

At least, it seems that people stopped knee-paddling like with a kayak, paddling with the handle on one side...

Cola's, your advice and opinions are always valued, but please don't forget that everyone is different.
"Only the knee paddling part is bad and dangerous advice"
"prone paddling is even better"

If I followed your opinion..... I wouldn't be SUP surfing.
I started SUP because my rotator cuffs are shot.
No prone paddling fo me.

Although I can paddle over decent whitewater better when standing..... I am always at risk of a severe hamstring pull.

So.... I almost always paddle through white-water on my knees. Over it or under it..... whatever it takes.
When it's all you've got, you figure out how to do it.

If it's too big for my knees to handle, I bail and wait for a break.

When it's big.... nothing goes over, so I navigate and use patience.

We all find our way.