Since safety has been brought up some what, and in relation to the MS BOP, I would say that mostly it looked very well done and those in it doing what they do. At the end of the day you as an entrant have the choice to go in it or pull out. yes the organisers can cancel the event if its that bad, but its still up to the entrant.

The only issue I saw from the video was the surfers and b/boaders in the race area. I Have no idea how it works with council etc, but I imagine any race organised in SEQ would not be allowed to have this happen. As much as "Sharing is caring" I doubt a surfer clocked in the head or having a board damaged badly would be to sharing after it happend. When you have an organised group doing anything in a public place you have a big target for any thing that goes wrong.

I Think the race was awesome, I think the cause well deserved of the fund raising. I think all that did it put 110% in (race and orgainsed) But for the future of SUP in a professional gise, I think it was a big risk with general public in that area.

hey Lacey, you do realise that flat water racing for average joe and juniors can co exist with pro racing BOP and Ocean, right And I hope you dont say your not a pro, youd have to be in your age group given your time involved, fitness and skill.

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Swanie said...

Thank you Swannie, this is precisely what I was trying to get at also.

The market is the same shape, most of the sales are at the bottom of the triangle as well.

Follow this triangle with your event structure and I guarantee sponsors will be a lot more attracted to supporting the events.

This does not mean not having big events, but that you can add lesser challenging elements or novice divisions to the same days. The more people you get there the better it is for everyone. You watch which ones the sponsors flock to though.

I feel like a broken record , been saying the same crap for years , 60% of racing even more will be flat water. As for flat water paddling being boring , i think its great , judging by the number of people just floundering around in the local creeks so do theyIgnore the flat water potential at sups detriment! I think why the popularity on flat water , why not just ride a canoe or ski , simply beacuse their is something to just standing up and just taking in the surrounds i think.

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teatrea said...
I feel like a broken record , been saying the same crap for years , 60% of racing even more will be flat water. As for flat water paddling being boring , i think its great , judging by the number of people just floundering around in the local creeks so do theyIgnore the flat water potential at sups detriment! I think why the popularity on flat water , why not just ride a canoe or ski , simply beacuse their is something to just standing up and just taking in the surrounds i think.

great post

nice swanie, but i would have dw ing at the top myself.


think the doctor, molokai, the triple crown etc.

i rate them higher than bop races.


ok so we get people flat water racing. how do they advance to the next levels.

we don't seem to have much structure in place for that at the moment.

a mate and myself did a run yesterday. as we were driving along currumbin beach front we saw someone out paddling on their knees. yes that section was a bit rough, but thats a concern. well, to me it is

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laceys lane said...
nice swanie, but i would have dw ing at the top myself.


think the doctor, molokai, the triple crown etc.

i rate them higher than bop races.


ok so we get people flat water racing. how do they advance to the next levels.

we don't seem to have much structure in place for that at the moment.

a mate and myself did a run yesterday. as we were driving along currumbin beach front we saw someone out paddling on their knees. yes that section was a bit rough, but thats a concern. well, to me it is

Agreed, the marathon DW events are a step up again on our normal local runs. Mainly in fitness though.
Negotiating surf with a large craft is a skill that stops a lot from entering. I love it as it reminds me of my days sweeping surf boats. Also love surfing the 12'6 at Mooloolaba at the bombie when it is working.

The PADDLE TO BATTLE MS had Perfect Pumping Conditions for a BOP style race, it should be like that at ever BOP race, thats would be my ideal conditions if I was into BOP racing BE BULK FUN gives a bloke like me in his 50's a fair go against the super fit 20 year olds. (flat water racing are for the Usain Bolts be good to watch but not compete)

Here's a great question organizers make you wear a PFD when paddling Downwind. So I'm speaking with the governing bodies authorities to make it compulsory for BOP competitors in Australia to wear a type 2 PFD and a GATH helmet.

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Downwinder said...
The PADDLE TO BATTLE MS had Perfect Pumping Conditions for a BOP style race, it should be like that at ever BOP race, thats would be my ideal conditions if I was into BOP racing BE BULK FUN gives a bloke like me in his 50's a fair go against the super fit 20 year olds. (flat water racing are for the Usain Bolts be good to watch but not compete)

Here's a great question organizers make you wear a PFD when paddling Downwind. So I'm speaking with the governing bodies authorities to make it compulsory for BOP competitors in Australia to wear a type 2 PFD and a GATH helmet.

I'm sensing a touch of facetiousness there but a Gath helmet in those conditions is not such a bad idea. Don't think the "elite" crew is going to be too keen, but I'd say it should be optional and let Darwin take care of the rest. After all, if it's head injuries and resultant brain damage we're worried about, then just as with motorbikes, if the brain can't perceive the danger, is that really a brain that we need to legislate to protect?

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Swanie said...

but because your piramid doesnt have a flat base, the entire SUP world will collapse and we may all have to consider getting into a real sport

Pyramid is interesting and is how we projected growth here in South Africa. We hosted a national flatwater series and weekly time-trials....but on average we have more people attending our downwind series.

I still don't quite understand why other than that a downwinder is considered more sexy and perhaps a little less of a slog. We are blessed with a very easy run where entry and exit is relatively easy and the wind is square in your back. Even people falling off 30-40 times and eventually sitting on their boards end up at the finish.

But to me the flatwater stuff is just so accessible to anyone and one challenge we have is that very few places does our ocean offer flat conditions. So we have to go to lakes, rivers and canals and somehow most entry folks want to paddle the sea.

Hi Guys,
I've been reading this thread for a few weeks now and there is some good stuff being said. I'll put my little bit in for us crew down here in Adelaide. So I run a Sup School (on a flat water location) and I work very closely with the local shop and SA Sup crew. A few things that we are doing are working with event participation. The race I sponsor and organised a few months ago last year had 23 competitors and this year we had over 70. The post Divaldo put up in the main forum of the vid of the latest surf comp is another example of a comp format that encourages novices.

So with our races we are working on participation not just the pointy end. The 6km flat water race we did a few months back we split into 4 divisions, Cruse, Ladies, men's 12'6 and Men's 14, We then split the start times by 10 mins. Cruisers first, 12'6 and ladies second and men's 14 last. What happened was the faster crew who started later passed some of the cruisers, but by about half way we had people in the cruising division racing to get to the end. Now these people would have never entered this race if it was just advertised as a race only with race divisions. So we got them there, next thing is they got to see the fast guys and girls go past them so they now see what racing is all about. Next thing is they are racing each other back to the beach and trying to keep up with everyone else. No longer just going for a cruise, we got them racing.
From that event we organised a series of downwind paddles (not a race) for people to participate in. Around the 3km mark (achievable for the beginner paddler making their way from flat water to the sea. Each time we have paddled there have been a few of the faith full paddlers out but there but most of our 15 to 20 paddlers out there are newbies to the sea, or have just purchased a race board and want to know what all the fuss is about (Doing Down winders).
Most of our races in SA are based around a course and conditions that suit the average to almost beginner paddler and are an achievable distance. If you are someone who wants to go faster and longer and challenge yourself you should have a network of others that want to do the same thing so you organise your own paddle sessions (ie a 20km down winder)
The jetty to jetty race in November got nearly 100 participants and that was over about 4kms. So an easily achievable distance. Every second Wed of each month we have a race at one of the local Yacht Clubs. It is just into the wind and back to the beach, Entry is $6 and you get a beer at the end as part of it. But over the last 6 months there have been over 90 different people enter and participate. Social is the way. Keep it fun and achievable and numbers will be up, make it hard and serious and numbers will be down. Mix the two together and then people have the choice of which way they want to go.
And as to BOP in SA, we haven't had a BOP style race this season. We don't have the conditions to train locally if you live metro and most crew are just happy to flat water or downwind paddle good conditions are right on our doorstep every day. Just my take on it from down here. Matt

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RJK said...

Swanie said...

but because your piramid doesnt have a flat base, the entire SUP world will collapse and we may all have to consider getting into a real sport

A flat base would be a triangle and as an engineer student you would understand that that is the strongest shape though only one face of a pyramid.

Probably needs a pink layer in the pyramid so that you don't exclude any of the minorities with higher purchasing power out there. Actually, I think a venn diagram with flatwater being the big circle and BOP and DW being more like mickey mouse ears is more like it. Only flatwater will have the numbers if it doesn't cater for the rest.

But seriously, combining newcomers and experts is surely the way to go for sponsors. The experts show off the product and the newcomer gets inspired and starts to look at the products available. Doesn't make sense to buy a new 2013 Starboard when you've just bought a new 2013 Fanatic. So maybe these festival type events need to be early in the season as the days get warm and people want to get outside. Not at the end like the BOPs that have been popping up lately?

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chrispychru said...

paul.j said...

laceys lane said...

OG SUP said...

laceys lane said...
phil, that wasn't a good bop race, more of a lottery imo.

that was too elite. now the guys put on a good show even verging on being dangerous with those boards flying around. think of the clubbie incidents- does sup need that? for mainstream events i don't have any issues with finding flater water when conditions are not suitable.

Mark, I personally believe most of the guys and whilst no one has said it so far the girls also kicked butt out there and had enough skill to get the job done safely. You need a mind set to do it similar to big wave riding it comes with confidence and exposure!.









The organisers, the SLA crew, the irb crew ran a stellar event one of the best I have been too.

phil i'm not bagging the guys, girls or the crew, but it only takes one loose board flying back with the force of the wave to do some real damage. no safety plan is go to stop something like that.

the blow ups look the go for that stuff

Maybe if we just wraped everyone in bubble wrap it might be safer!! Some of you guys are sounding really old, come on live a little!!

Jacko its not about bubble wrap, your skilled enough to make a living from the sport and thats a great thing! You go out in those conditions as your being paid to represent a brand and your good at it and within reason you have an unlimited equipment resource, you snap a board and you get another one.

NOT talking about anyone else here just our position! Kristi's primary focus is surf not racing unless its down wind and I don't see to many other guys going down wind in 50+kns or doing the coastal runs she does so I guess that makes them soft right. Wrong they just don't have the mind set or experience yet it will come with time if they want to develop it.

Commercially Kristi has weekly paid work coaching and instructing as she is saving for a car, she is working on the RIPCURL Pro with Surf Vic for the next 2 weeks which is a requirement for her diploma program with SEDA, has state titles coming up and is competing for the 1st time overseas pretty much a dream for her to get the opportunity. Just one serious injury at this time would screw all that.

So I guess my point is simple, everything is a risk and you need to assess what you will get out of making a decision especially when you have little skill in that specific area. If the choice to go out may totally screw you over longterm then you simply say no.

Bubble wrap is not the question really its more about commercial reality and in some cases the real world priorities and obligations that come into play.



So the perfect event would have to be held some place like the alley so you could have your fun events that everyone can do in the Flatwater and then stick the pro guys out in the waves so everyone can have a laugh at the carnage? Sound about right? Not that hard really just need the right spots and you are half way there!!

well said jacko.

and og i would have heckled kristi (more take the piss There is taking the piss which no one minds, then there is taking it too far.) because it was a borrowed board she would not compete (read my above comments). did all the girls pull out? or just your girl because off the borrowed board issue? the 12 towers last year...well i was glad i was a spectator as i would have been too scared to try and do what they did on sups(girls and guys).

this has been a really good thread to read. some really great ideas coming out. i do like the idea of a inflatable bop race,that would be heaps of fun for a kook like me.

Hey Chrispy,

As I said previously 2 factors 1) Borrowed board you break you pay principle carbon $2k+ 2) Kristi did not believe she could handle the 12'6 race board in those conditions as was her 1st BOP race and did not want to hurt herself or anyone else.

Jacko snapped a board went back to the beach picked up another went straight back out all good, not everyone has that luxury.

The other girls to their credit did go out and good on them, I thought they did a fantastic job especially in those conditions nothing but respect.

Don't worry Chrispy wouldn't have paddled out neither

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OG SUP said...

chrispychru said...


well said jacko.

and og i would have heckled kristi (more take the piss There is taking the piss which no one minds, then there is taking it too far.) because it was a borrowed board she would not compete (read my above comments). did all the girls pull out? or just your girl because off the borrowed board issue? the 12 towers last year...well i was glad i was a spectator as i would have been too scared to try and do what they did on sups(girls and guys).

this has been a really good thread to read. some really great ideas coming out. i do like the idea of a inflatable bop race,that would be heaps of fun for a kook like me.

Hey Chrispy,

As I said previously 2 factors 1) Borrowed board you break you pay principle carbon $2k+ 2) Kristi did not believe she could handle the 12'6 race board in those conditions as was her 1st BOP race and did not want to hurt herself or anyone else.

Jacko snapped a board went back to the beach picked up another went straight back out all good, not everyone has that luxury.

The other girls to their credit did go out and good on them, I thought they did a fantastic job especially in those conditions nothing but respect.

Agree, total respect for anyone who took on the conditions but we do have to be very, very careful about bullying people into those conditions if they aren't up for it, even if it is just banter and taking the piss.

The elephant in the room is the clubbie scene where the two kids died in the surf. We don't want any of our juniors feeling an obligation to go just because someone else is going. And if someone has the fortitude and self-awareness to know they shouldn't be putting themselves or others in danger because they're not confident in those conditions, then they should be respected too.

Can not believe some of you guys!! everything has pretty much been said and it's clear on what events should do.
Racing with helmets is fine if thats where it goes, i've done it and hardly even noticed it. At the end of the day you have to take responsible for your self and just do what you are able to do, no one is making any one do things they don't have to from what i see.
Yes i broke my board but thats part of my job in testing out new things, that board was not a production board it was made of a new construction which is one of many new things we are trying, sometimes they work and sometimes they dont!! but i bet you would rather we test it and find out before you brought it? Thanks OG for bringing that up!!

Someone touched on something earlier which i thought i might bring up again and that is if we go making things to easy then it loses it challenge. I dont know about every one else but i like to be pushed a bit and if all we are doing are 3-5km races then thats not that much of a challenge really!! The last 3 races i have been to lasted a max of 30 mins per race now to me thats just a sprint race which yes can still be hard but not really that much of a challenge is it. I feel a BOP should be a min of 8km and at least take up to 1hr, any flatwater race that is not classed as a sprint EG: 200m race should be 10-20km.
Look at the anaconda races that have a huge number of people in those races and those things can go all day and at the end of it people feel like they have really done something.
Just sounds like some of you guys are selling yourself s and everyone else short on what we as humans can really do it's good to step out side your comfort zone from time to time.

Any way i'm lost on what i'm even saying now as i'm getting dizzy from this round about!!

By the way if i broke the board i borrowed i'm sure i would have to buy Sam a new one!!

jacko, re distance, im guessing your are talking for the pro/elite class?

I know we all want something catered to "our" personal needs, but I think the shorter races good for the amatures. I fall into that class where I can paddle a board ok, but sweat bullets. In surf when your fitness starts to fall off, so does your skill and ability to stay on the board etc.

I like the concept of shorter heats for amature, rather than longer one off races.

just my 5c

Yeah a mix if both would be good but I see a tread to just making things short and sweet just because it's easy. Come on Serg you know you could did 20km in your sleep!!

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paul.j said...

I feel a BOP should be a min of 8km and at least take up to 1hr, any flatwater race that is not classed as a sprint EG: 200m race should be 10-20km.

In terms of the so-called elite racing, you are spot on, these are the 3 ideal formats - 8km BOP, 200m/500m sprint racing, 10-20km marathon. It's a misnomer to say downwind racing is the third facet because outside of Molokai or Maliko, no-one can guarantee the wind. Therefore, the long distance races are ideally downwind, but in practical terms they are marathons.

We shouldn't mess with these formats and we should look to maintain them at all costs. However, to build the bottom level of Swanie's pyramid (which BTW needs sprint racing added) we need shorter flat water racing to create a base and build the sport.

So the takeaway from all this is: a) Don't compromise elite racing by making all races too short and on flat water; and b) Don't cut your nose off to spite your face by making all racing too exclusive and elitist and unachievable for average punters.

Dont know about all flat water races should be 10 to 20K , 4 to 5 k is a good solid fast paced race. Most racing sports will cover the whole range sprints , middle distance , and marathon. Even bop can have sprints , multiple races over a short in out course. This way you cater for all tastes

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teatrea said...
Dont know about all flat water races should be 10 to 20K , 4 to 5 k is a good solid fast paced race. Most racing sports will cover the whole range sprints , middle distance , and marathon. Even bop can have sprints , multiple races over a short in out course. This way you cater for all tastes

As Linda Evangelista once said, I don't get out of bed for under 10K.

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PTWoody said...

teatrea said...
Dont know about all flat water races should be 10 to 20K , 4 to 5 k is a good solid fast paced race. Most racing sports will cover the whole range sprints , middle distance , and marathon. Even bop can have sprints , multiple races over a short in out course. This way you cater for all tastes

As Linda Evangelista once said, I don't get out of bed for under 10K.

I wouldnt kick her out of bed if someone paid me 10KSeriously a 20k flat water race , no thanks

ok so we need

200m-500m sprints (kids race, open men and women, over 40 men and woman,over 50 men woman)

3-5km flatwater race (kids race, open men and women, over 40 men and woman,over 50 men woman)

10-20 km flatwater race (pro men and women)

10-20 km DW (kids race, open men and women, over 40 men and woman,over 50 men woman)

3-5km BOP (kids race, open men and women, over 40 men and woman,over 50 men woman)

8km BOP( Pro men and women)

Have i missed anything?

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paul.j said...
ok so we need

200m-500m sprints (kids race, open men and women, over 40 men and woman,over 50 men woman)

3-5km flatwater race (kids race, open men and women, over 40 men and woman,over 50 men woman)

10-20 km flatwater race (pro men and women)

10-20 km DW (kids race, open men and women, over 40 men and woman,over 50 men woman)

3-5km BOP (kids race, open men and women, over 40 men and woman,over 50 men woman)

8km BOP( Pro men and women)

Have i missed anything?

sORTED , SIMPLE AS THAT

I started this discussion a week ago and wow what a response. Thank you for the input.

The Sunny Coast SUP club have been analyzing all the comments and are planning a event that will blow your mind!!!!!

Stay frothing crew as we will be announcing the event in a month.

Cheers Jonesy

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paul.j said...
ok so we need

200m-500m sprints (kids race, open men and women, over 40 men and woman,over 50 men woman)

3-5km flatwater race (kids race, open men and women, over 40 men and woman,over 50 men woman)

10-20 km flatwater race (pro men and women)

10-20 km DW (kids race, open men and women, over 40 men and woman,over 50 men woman)

3-5km BOP (kids race, open men and women, over 40 men and woman,over 50 men woman)

8km BOP( Pro men and women)

Have i missed anything?

Yeah.. The BBQ and drinks afterwards..

DJ

i was thinking about this last night.this more to the vicco crew. i'm hearing that races numbers have dropped alarmingly down there


is there any training or coaching down there. i suggest you can't expect people to keep turning up with out any infrastructure.

that's one of the reason the goldie and sunshine coast are getting numbers at races and turning out good paddlers.

the shops and clubs need to pull their fingers out.

if you do have set ups, i'll pull my head in