You're spot on Pete, and when I manage to finish just a few minutes (okay 10 minutes +) behind Jamie or Jacko or Jake in flat water, then watch them tear it up overseas in a major surf race or open ocean, my ego thinks I could do that, even though the reality is totally different. This is the aspirational nature of the sport. We race in flat water and pretend we are doing Molokai or Huntington Beach.

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PTWoody said...

Snowie said...

laceys lane said...
surely flat water racing only isn't the answer- please


imo its a stepping stone when you live on a coast.


just about every paddler i know wants to paddle in the ocean. even people who have only started aspire to get out there.


its like buying a 6'1 surfboard and paddling it in the creek.


definitely have no interest in that at all. to have flat water only would get some newbies, but you might lose the faithful.


part of 'its too hard in the ocean theory is people are getting narrow fast boards to early and then can't do it in the ocean.

you just can't expect to get a board and two weeks later start paddling seaway to seaway.

i'm cranky that most of us have put the time in to get ok at the ocean caper just to have some suggest its all to hard lets keep the racing and paddling at the pirate pk.




sellout. do we really want only soft people doing the sport or is it a novelty sport- every one can turn up and be a racer.

i never seen anyone suggest buy a surfboard and you'll be ripping in three weeks and get a widcard in the quicky pro!!!!


theses flat water fun suggestions surely can only be for the rank novices and kids

I can understand you feeling that way given your neck of the woods, but the trouble with Sydney these days is that unless you're lucky enough to live (AND work) on the coastal fringes, the ocean isn't that accessible for training regularly due to total traffic gridlock, parking meters every bloody where and a lot of cliffs and all the prime waterfront real estate taken up by mansions, sailing and rowing clubs who don't particularly want you there, so there are limited places that you can put in. I get out on the harbour a lot, but it is flat and the bumps come from wind chop. So most of the races are flatwater.

Circuit races are good fun, especially with 30+ racers, but it is like comparing stock car racing with off roading. I love to do both but it is better to have two different cars - which I now have - but I still find myself training a lot on the flatwater board out of necessity.

There's no doubt stand up paddling, whether as racing or just as a pass time, would seriously die in the arse if it was limited to surf and open ocean. The sport is growing because of all the inland and flat water opportunities all over the world. I have no issue with the surf and ocean racing remaining at the pointy end in order to maintain the aspirational nature of the sport. However, we have to run flat water races in areas where we only have flat water. No point arguing about that.

But in addition to that, it would be silly to ignore the very real potential for SUP racing to achieve Olympic Games acceptance through flat water racing rather than surf or open ocean racing. In that sense, flat water racing is not a stepping stone to paddling in the ocean. It's an end unto itself.

Firstly as a race oraganiser, this thread has been very enlightening and beneficial.

We had a State Flatwater Marathon on the weekend and had 40 paddlers. Flatwater paddling is a huge growth area for SUP and I completetly agree with Paul, it is not a stepping stone - it is another discipline. This forum was founded on ex-surfers and windsufers getting into SUP, so it makes sense the greater majority have the ocean at heart. The sport has grown so much more over the past 2-3years and its accessibility has opened itself up to many people of differing backgrounds. In WA we have fantastic Downwind conditions, but not everyone is into that. We have great surfing conditions, but not everyone is into that. Our biggest events are our flatwater events at present, because it is accessible to everyone.

As a race organiser, the window of opportunity to run a successful downwind event is very narrow (look at the Doctor 4years until optimal conditions), same with the Duel and Towers race this year. At the end of the day if you don't have the wind up your backside, it's not fun in a side slop or headwind. A flatwater event is easier to cater to the majority and you have the capacity to change direction/course due to the prevailing conditions.... Fun races = more participation!

The the key to great SUP events is ensure that all disciplines and levels are catered for, with meaniful and releveant events. We have an amazing sport - where else can you have - Surf, Flatwater, Downwinding and touring? (well aside from kayaking )

PS - for the guy that watched the 2013 Doctor video and thought the SUPs looked 'like kooks'. I suugest you come over next year and try it. Some of the best downwinding conditions ever - great runs and a great race.

Hi all, long time reader, first time adding to the forum.

There are a lot of comments on this post about what type of racing is most likely to attract participants, etc. I have not seen as many comments about how to promote SUP to attract new participants (apart from the schools, which is a great idea, if funding can be sourced). As a fairly new entrant to the sport, I found the demo days are a fantastic way to allow people to try it out for themselves, and many are quickly hooked and looking to buy a board, train, get fit and maybe even race.

How do you make those days more accessible? I see them promoted a lot on these forums and other simliar types of sites, but not as much outside of them - can more be done to get the message on local radio, newspapers, etc through friends, contacts, community messages, etc? (this may already being done, but I haven't noticed it)

Also, is there any sense in holding demo days at or near surf carnivals, at or near universities with flat water at hand (Bond Uni, UQ, etc) and anywhere else where there may be young people or athletes who may be possible recruits to the sport?

okay i've got it all wrong.



flatwater races only is the go so everyone can do it


what a fool i've been


no more ocean paddling for me

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laceys lane said...
okay i've got it all wrong.



flatwater races only is the go so everyone can do it


what a fool i've been


no more ocean paddling for me

4217 vs Rest of the World eh? [}:)]

oops, i forgot. no more surfing in the ocean either- its to hard for everyone.

surfing currumbin ck - yeah. just gotta hope some boats go past

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tha dogman said...
its simple guys and girls

get the kids into it and make it "fun for them"

remember being a grommet and having to go to mum n dads sporting events and having to hang around all day bored off your freaking head god i do.....golf without drinking beer is boring as

lets make these events not about the "elite crew" and their waxed chests and more about a family atmosphere where kids wake up in the morning and are frothing to go to mums or dads big race cause "they too" are there "to race" n have fun and experience what we all love n enjoy

from a sponsors point of view "point a to point b" races suck b@lls as you want crowds to stay in the one spot and not have to see a pack of crew disappear into the distance after a minute from the starting gun just to do a car shuffle 10 or 20 km away to see them reappear at a finish line n "game over the fat lady has sung" or "coarse races" that go off into the distance and competitors look like ants "ITS GOT TO BE UP CLOSE N PERSONAL" so punters can see and feel apart of the action

mixing it up

and also have some sort of entertainment in and around the event. so that everyone just doesn't leave straight after the winners are presented with their prizes or in some cases lack of prizes or just leaving straight after the race and going home...... create an atmosphere!!!!!!! that may even draw in non paddlers etc.

i know that none of our aussie based sup related companies have big bucks to throw around
so its a hard slog for all the organisers to generate a prize pool
but its the little things that count

this is a great thread
keep up the froth you freaking sup frothers
over n under.... dogbreath

Hey Mr Dog Meister agree no groms "NO FUTURE" your bang on the money.

Sat back and watched a couple of what you might call punters watch Casso's Video, that the hard core crew having a wank rave over.

These 2 punters who were looking forward to doing there very 1st BOP race got totally switched off! Those guys are nuts no way I'm going to a race like that!






Another Point:

Kristi and Riggs went surfing on the Friday night and had a great time, Kristi went out on a borrowed 9'5 Naish had no issue paddling out.

The following day Kristi took a look at the waves and made a decision NOT to go in the Elite Women's Race because she didn't want to take out a borrowed board into a situation where she did not believe she could control it. She didnt want to hurt herself or someone else as it was her 1st ever BOP Race, for mine a smart decision. If people think thats soft well she doesn't give a stuff and neither do I.

But it does show a mind set!

My question is when does Elite become way too Elite.

The term Elite Paddler is starting to sound very "Waterman Like"

She wouldnt say who but apparently she got some heckling over making that decision. When I find out who it was I will personally give them some heckling and see how the **** they like it!

She had no hesitation in taking out the Nisco in similar size waves later in the day because it was less risk to herself and others if she got it wrong, she would have jumped on her Laguna and gone straight out no issue.



Phill

Select to expand quote

OG SUP said...

tha dogman said...
its simple guys and girls

get the kids into it and make it "fun for them"

remember being a grommet and having to go to mum n dads sporting events and having to hang around all day bored off your freaking head god i do.....golf without drinking beer is boring as

lets make these events not about the "elite crew" and their waxed chests and more about a family atmosphere where kids wake up in the morning and are frothing to go to mums or dads big race cause "they too" are there "to race" n have fun and experience what we all love n enjoy

from a sponsors point of view "point a to point b" races suck b@lls as you want crowds to stay in the one spot and not have to see a pack of crew disappear into the distance after a minute from the starting gun just to do a car shuffle 10 or 20 km away to see them reappear at a finish line n "game over the fat lady has sung" or "coarse races" that go off into the distance and competitors look like ants "ITS GOT TO BE UP CLOSE N PERSONAL" so punters can see and feel apart of the action

mixing it up

and also have some sort of entertainment in and around the event. so that everyone just doesn't leave straight after the winners are presented with their prizes or in some cases lack of prizes or just leaving straight after the race and going home...... create an atmosphere!!!!!!! that may even draw in non paddlers etc.

i know that none of our aussie based sup related companies have big bucks to throw around
so its a hard slog for all the organisers to generate a prize pool
but its the little things that count

this is a great thread
keep up the froth you freaking sup frothers
over n under.... dogbreath

Hey Mr Dog Meister agree no groms "NO FUTURE" your bang on the money.

Sat back and watched a couple of what you might call punters watch Casso's Video, that the hard core crew having a wank rave over.

These 2 punters who were looking forward to doing there very 1st BOP race got totally switched off! Those guys are nuts no way I'm going to a race like that!






Another Point:

Kristi and Riggs went surfing on the Friday night and had a great time, Kristi went out on a borrowed 9'5 Naish had no issue paddling out.

The following day Kristi took a look at the waves and made a decision NOT to go in the Elite Women's Race because she didn't want to take out a borrowed board into a situation where she did not believe she could control it. She didnt want to hurt herself or someone else as it was her 1st ever BOP Race, for mine a smart decision. If people think thats soft well she doesn't give a stuff and neither do I.

But it does show a mind set!

My question is when does Elite become way too Elite.

The term Elite Paddler is starting to sound very "Waterman Like"

She wouldnt say who but apparently she got some heckling over making that decision. When I find out who it was I will personally give them some heckling and see how the **** they like it!

She had no hesitation in taking out the Nisco in similar size waves later in the day because it was less risk to herself and others if she got it wrong, she would have jumped on her Laguna and gone straight out no issue.



Phill

Maybe it's not the elite but the elitists that are the problem?

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rager said...

Maybe it's not the elite but the elitists that are the problem?

Reminds me of when Kim Beasley was in politics and the Torys used to call him "ay-eet" and it occurred to me that anyone who pronounces the word "ay-leet" is clearly an elitist wanker.

phil, that wasn't a good bop race, more of a lottery imo.

that was too elite. now the guys put on a good show even verging on being dangerous with those boards flying around. think of the clubbie incidents- does sup need that? for mainstream events i don't have any issues with finding flater water when conditions are not suitable.

Select to expand quote

laceys lane said...
phil, that wasn't a good bop race, more of a lottery imo.

that was too elite. now the guys put on a good show even verging on being dangerous with those boards flying around. think of the clubbie incidents- does sup need that? for mainstream events i don't have any issues with finding flater water when conditions are not suitable.

Mark, I personally believe most of the guys and whilst no one has said it so far the girls also kicked butt out there and had enough skill to get the job done safely. You need a mind set to do it similar to big wave riding it comes with confidence and exposure!.









The organisers, the SLA crew, the irb crew ran a stellar event one of the best I have been too.

Select to expand quote

laceys lane said...
phil, that wasn't a good bop race, more of a lottery imo.

that was too elite. now the guys put on a good show even verging on being dangerous with those boards flying around. think of the clubbie incidents- does sup need that? for mainstream events i don't have any issues with finding flater water when conditions are not suitable.

Touch woody!

Select to expand quote

PTWoody said...

laceys lane said...
phil, that wasn't a good bop race, more of a lottery imo.

that was too elite. now the guys put on a good show even verging on being dangerous with those boards flying around. think of the clubbie incidents- does sup need that? for mainstream events i don't have any issues with finding flater water when conditions are not suitable.

Touch woody!

touch your own woody

I am not really sure about all this and it is a hard one
I understand we need to uncrease the numbers of participants
I understand flat races are good for that.
But at the end of the day things have to be inspirational as well.
Nobody says Molokai is too hard. And it does inspire people.
You want to enter or not Is your choice but even if there is a place for flat water races don't get rid of races that make people dream and want to achieve something.
A national title in australia in flat water would be a bit of a shame considering the expertise at hand in this country and you would expect a minimum of natural difficulties to master.

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OG SUP said...

laceys lane said...
phil, that wasn't a good bop race, more of a lottery imo.

that was too elite. now the guys put on a good show even verging on being dangerous with those boards flying around. think of the clubbie incidents- does sup need that? for mainstream events i don't have any issues with finding flater water when conditions are not suitable.

Mark, I personally believe most of the guys and whilst no one has said it so far the girls also kicked butt out there and had enough skill to get the job done safely. You need a mind set to do it similar to big wave riding it comes with confidence and exposure!.









The organisers, the SLA crew, the irb crew ran a stellar event one of the best I have been too.

phil i'm not bagging the guys, girls or the crew, but it only takes one loose board flying back with the force of the wave to do some real damage. no safety plan is go to stop something like that.

the blow ups look the go for that stuff

So.... In a nutshell and to summarize, what people want is 100's of people to turn up to races in conditions that keep everyone happy and if not they're soft anyway.

The events should also to be stand alone and everyone should receive prize money from sponsors who are apparently making millions of dollars by supplying quazi elite paddlers with discounted boards. Too easy right??? WRONG!


If you guys want sponsors and money at your events, a great suggestion would be to include and encourage the mass of the market to come along as like it or not they are the ones paying for the industry to exist.

Point is unless there is somewhere achievable for a lot of people to start and feel good about it they won't. Kids are an avenue of course but there are thousands of adults with money looking to be involved as well.

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CMC said...
So.... In a nutshell and to summarize, what people want is 100's of people to turn up to races in conditions that keep everyone happy and if not they're soft anyway.

The events should also to be stand alone and everyone should receive prize money from sponsors who are apparently making millions of dollars by supplying quazi elite paddlers with discounted boards. Too easy right??? WRONG!


If you guys want sponsors and money at your events, a great suggestion would be to include and encourage the mass of the market to come along as like it or not they are the ones paying for the industry to exist.

Point is unless there is somewhere achievable for a lot of people to start and feel good about it they won't. Kids are an avenue of course but there are thousands of adults with money looking to be involved as well.

Well said!

Phill

events like this already exist.
The Mullumbimby to brunswick 10km flat water every year in may for example.
You have a racing category with good paddlers coming. Jake won 2 years ago, Troy last year so it is not a slow field.
But on the top of that you have a fun race where people start when they want with no timing involved, their main goal being to achieve paddling 10km.
This is the only event my wife considers doing and she is keen to go every year.
We have to remember as well that paddling 10 or 20km is an achievement for a lot of people whatever speed they will paddle it.
What is good in this event is that the fun race is open let's say at 9am. So all the fun participants start to go. Then at 9.30 am the normal race starts.
All the fun participants get passed by the ones racing and it give them the opportunity to see exactly what is happening in a race when people wash ride and try hard.
Things they will never see if they are on the same starting line as the top paddlers are fading away very quickly.
And the top paddlers get cheered all the way by the fun participants.
A very good event indeed with plenty of different crafts on the water with very young and very old paddlers .

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laceys lane said...

OG SUP said...

laceys lane said...
phil, that wasn't a good bop race, more of a lottery imo.

that was too elite. now the guys put on a good show even verging on being dangerous with those boards flying around. think of the clubbie incidents- does sup need that? for mainstream events i don't have any issues with finding flater water when conditions are not suitable.

Mark, I personally believe most of the guys and whilst no one has said it so far the girls also kicked butt out there and had enough skill to get the job done safely. You need a mind set to do it similar to big wave riding it comes with confidence and exposure!.









The organisers, the SLA crew, the irb crew ran a stellar event one of the best I have been too.

phil i'm not bagging the guys, girls or the crew, but it only takes one loose board flying back with the force of the wave to do some real damage. no safety plan is go to stop something like that.

the blow ups look the go for that stuff

Maybe if we just wraped everyone in bubble wrap it might be safer!! Some of you guys are sounding really old, come on live a little!!

So the perfect event would have to be held some place like the alley so you could have your fun events that everyone can do in the Flatwater and then stick the pro guys out in the waves so everyone can have a laugh at the carnage? Sound about right? Not that hard really just need the right spots and you are half way there!!

Good Point Paul ... But The second ( or third) choice Could be Kingscliff and co-incidentally next SUNDAY 24th March their is such an event ..

A Flat water 5 k race in the River .. annnnd on the same card a BOP Race on the beach ... The entry fees are $55 which to some is a bit high but you get a Bag full of stuff and if your an amateur ( like most of em in the river race ) you get a chance in the draw for a whole lot of expensive stuff Illusions FCS SUPs SUP Bags DECK GRIP .. the list goes on and on ... RIVER STARTS AT 9am BOP 10:30am (EDST)

REGISTRATION AT KINGSCLIFF SURF CLUB from 7am EDST .. If your not Paddling hear the "Dog" do the race call .. thats worth the effort in getting down and watch The BEST in the World and Newcomers paddle all at one event. A RACE NOT UNLIKE MOST OF THE PREVIOUS POSTS WERE TALKING ABOUT.

well the consensus is , all forms of racing have their place , its just getting the balance right. The Kingy race is a great model something for everyone , the newbies , the ELITE the weekend warrriors.

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paul.j said...

Maybe if we just wraped everyone in bubble wrap it might be safer!! Some of you guys are sounding really old, come on live a little!!

So the perfect event would have to be held some place like the alley so you could have your fun events that everyone can do in the Flatwater and then stick the pro guys out in the waves so everyone can have a laugh at the carnage? Sound about right? Not that hard really just need the right spots and you are half way there!!

I missed this event unfortunately but gotta agree with Jacko. If you are gonna race BOP isn't a bit of carnage a part of it? I have only been in 2 and they were both hectic with boards flying everywhere. Potential to get hurt? Yep. So probably not for everyone just like SUP surf contests. That's where the flat water races would cater for more people.

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paul.j said...

laceys lane said...

OG SUP said...

laceys lane said...
phil, that wasn't a good bop race, more of a lottery imo.

that was too elite. now the guys put on a good show even verging on being dangerous with those boards flying around. think of the clubbie incidents- does sup need that? for mainstream events i don't have any issues with finding flater water when conditions are not suitable.

Mark, I personally believe most of the guys and whilst no one has said it so far the girls also kicked butt out there and had enough skill to get the job done safely. You need a mind set to do it similar to big wave riding it comes with confidence and exposure!.









The organisers, the SLA crew, the irb crew ran a stellar event one of the best I have been too.

phil i'm not bagging the guys, girls or the crew, but it only takes one loose board flying back with the force of the wave to do some real damage. no safety plan is go to stop something like that.

the blow ups look the go for that stuff

Maybe if we just wraped everyone in bubble wrap it might be safer!! Some of you guys are sounding really old, come on live a little!!

So the perfect event would have to be held some place like the alley so you could have your fun events that everyone can do in the Flatwater and then stick the pro guys out in the waves so everyone can have a laugh at the carnage? Sound about right? Not that hard really just need the right spots and you are half way there!!

well said jacko.
and og i would have heckled kristi(more take the piss) because it was a borrowed board she would not compete . did all the girls pull out? or just your girl because off the borrowed board issue? the 12 towers last year...well i was glad i was a spectator as i would have been too scared to try and do what they did on sups(girls and guys).

this has been a really good thread to read. some really great ideas coming out. i do like the idea of a inflatable bop race,that would be heaps of fun for a kook like me.

Just want to be clear that this thread started 3 days BEFORE the race on the weekend and should not be regarded as a comment on the merits of the weekend's race. BOP Racing even in the extremes of last Saturday obviously has a cherished place at the top of SUP racing, no-one wants to change that.

I have always thought that the Broadwater would be a good place for a flat water event. The distance from the Sundale Bridge to Paradise Point is about 10Km. There is a lot of opportunitiy for spectators along the route and the sponsors could get good exposure too.

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paul.j said...

laceys lane said...

OG SUP said...

laceys lane said...
phil, that wasn't a good bop race, more of a lottery imo.

that was too elite. now the guys put on a good show even verging on being dangerous with those boards flying around. think of the clubbie incidents- does sup need that? for mainstream events i don't have any issues with finding flater water when conditions are not suitable.

Mark, I personally believe most of the guys and whilst no one has said it so far the girls also kicked butt out there and had enough skill to get the job done safely. You need a mind set to do it similar to big wave riding it comes with confidence and exposure!.









The organisers, the SLA crew, the irb crew ran a stellar event one of the best I have been too.

phil i'm not bagging the guys, girls or the crew, but it only takes one loose board flying back with the force of the wave to do some real damage. no safety plan is go to stop something like that.

the blow ups look the go for that stuff

Maybe if we just wraped everyone in bubble wrap it might be safer!! Some of you guys are sounding really old, come on live a little!!

So the perfect event would have to be held some place like the alley so you could have your fun events that everyone can do in the Flatwater and then stick the pro guys out in the waves so everyone can have a laugh at the carnage? Sound about right? Not that hard really just need the right spots and you are half way there!!

i'll go with that. how about you guys race in front of froggies


i'm all for testing ones ability, thats why flat water sucks imo- boring as bat ****, but there's not much point in risking injury or 'snapping ones board' for a local bop race. i can't afford to get hurt as a builder/carpenter


cheers

I have just been advised that have been successfully in a grant to obtain 10 inflatable 12'6 boards and adjustable paddles for club members so that they can enter events and have a go at training, club days etc until they see if they enjoy it and get their own craft.

Happy Days Sunshine Coast SUP Club.
I have another one in place for $38k for fully enclosed club trailer (house 12 race board and all club gear and 150 RFID bracelets and computer system. I think we will get this and then be able to hire out the RFID's to other groups to run events. This will make the management of events much easier.
The trailer will be available for club members to travel to events collectively and also ensure their gear is stored securely when away from home.

Select to expand quote

Swanie said...
I have just been advised that have been successfully in a grant to obtain 10 inflatable 12'6 boards and adjustable paddles for club members so that they can enter events and have a go at training, club days etc until they see if they enjoy it and get their own craft.

Happy Days Sunshine Coast SUP Club.
I have another one in place for $38k for fully enclosed club trailer (house 12 race board and all club gear and 150 RFID bracelets and computer system. I think we will get this and then be able to hire out the RFID's to other groups to run events. This will make the management of events much easier.
The trailer will be available for club members to travel to events collectively and also ensure their gear is stored securely when away from home.

Nicely done. Very nicely done.

Select to expand quote

CMC said...

Point is unless there is somewhere achievable for a lot of people to start and feel good about it they won't. Kids are an avenue of course but there are thousands of adults with money looking to be involved as well.

Sometimes it sounds like the committees within Bowling Clubs, "lets put bright colours on the players and make it more exciting for the the kids and get them involved". Kids are part of it but our younger SUP riders entering the sport in the greatest numbers are in their 30s+.
More local/regional races that are in non-threatening environments (not relating to the Paddle to Battle), ie: club surfing in smaller to medium swells, shorter downwind events, flatwater events and SPREAD THE PRIZES AROUND. Do all those sponsored guys really need all the cash, all the vouchers etc?
As the events progress to State and National level, take the gloves off and almost anything goes.
The Stand Up World Tour, big waves, serious stuff and top riders competing. I can't imagine everyone striving for sponsors or getting out at Sunset 15'.

just making my point again

make it look fun! make it look as professional as you can.