IMHO

1/ Age divisions Open , 40 & 50 (Juniors can go in amateur)

2/ A single amateur division (you can only enter in age or amateur)

3/ Race on what you like 12-6 or 14

4/ Always have a wave element , that will even out the 14's

5/ BOP style but without multiple beach landings , finish with you board that way you don't need caddies and you can run the event pretty much anywhere

6/ Be a member of Surfing Australia and that should cover all insurance aspects.

Someone has already said it and I remember making the statement last year - dont panic-We are only a new sport, racing and surfing. But the sport, be it racing competitively, surfing at comps or having casual surf with mates and then a cruise upthe river for fitness, is still in its infancy and will continue to grow,The biggest and bestess thing about NOOSA wasnt the number of crew that turned up but the QUANITY of spectators on the beach and out on the rocks and headland. Turn up the volume on the loudspeakers (another one or two positioned nearer the surf club and out on the headland) and let DOGMAN spew forth and entertain....They got to see some of the best in Aus (only a couple missing that are local Qlders). Thats what will bring the sponsors.Pete

Pan pacs are on again next year on the Goldy , maybee sup could be added to that! Maybee even a demo sport for the Commonwealth gamesSome one call Tater Head

I think there is a cost factor for equipment as well. Look at all the elite paddlers, they arent spending big bucks to be competitive, for the average joe if we want to give them a run for their money it will cost thousands, then the next season the elites get there new batch of equipment and we're behind the eight ball once again.
I think there should be divisions for board restrictions by way of stock and sports.

Stock = Board made to box specifications with a minimum production of say 50 of the one same model in any one calendar year.

Sports = Only restricted to length, everything else free for all!

If these two divisions would be created which one would you think would be the most participated in?

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JonWest said...
I think there is a cost factor for equipment as well. Look at all the elite paddlers, they arent spending big bucks to be competitive, for the average joe if we want to give them a run for their money it will cost thousands, then the next season the elites get there new batch of equipment and we're behind the eight ball once again.
I think there should be divisions for board restrictions by way of stock and sports.

Stock = Board made to box specifications with a minimum production of say 50 of the one same model in any one calendar year.

Sports = Only restricted to length, everything else free for all!

If these two divisions would be created which one would you think would be the most participated in?

I rekon when the sport becomes truly proffessional stock boards will be inevitable. If your racing for big bucks or world championship , Olympic medal , every one will need to be on the same equipment. I dont think splitting races between elite and the gumbys is the way to go , how many sports are their where you can saddle up against the best in the buisness , that is unique to sup.

I know this thread is about "How to increase participation" but this fact may be of interest. Only a small number of AOCRA members actually race, same for most Outrigger Clubs, less than half actually race. Then there are the ones that are not Club members but own outrigger canoes and don't race.

So yeah, across other paddle sports, not everyone wants to race.

One thing i will say though is SUP is young has a bright future, not so sure about Outrigger canoeing though.

To those who say don't panic, the sport is still growing - I admire and appreciate your optimism. However we must remain cautious and wary of the pitfalls that destroyed windsurfing due to the elitist tendencies of that sport.

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PTWoody said...
To those who say don't panic, the sport is still growing - I admire and appreciate your optimism. However we must remain cautious and wary of the pitfalls that destroyed windsurfing due to the elitist tendencies of that sport.

Luckily many of the people involved in SUP worked through the demise of windsurfing and are trying to make sure it does not happen with SUP.

Below are some of my random thoughts on the race scene.

It has been interesting watching the race scene in Sydney over the last 12 months. There seems to be 2 distinct groups, There is a small group of paddlers who compete in the offshore / downwind and more technical events but there is a much larger group competing in the fun events.

Talking to an industry insider yesterday I suggested it is the latter the race organisers need to cater for. The "Blast Series" of events is getting some 50-60 paddlers turn up to race on user friendly 5-6km courses on enclosed waters. The emphasis is on participation with lots of random prizes and a very welcoming atmosphere. Yes, there are serious paddlers there , however, the vast majority are there for the fun and competition with mates. It is this group that need to be encouraged as many of them eventually filter into the more serious side of the sport. If retailers and industry want the sport to develop this is the area that needs to ba catered to.

JPP on Narrabeen Lake are running weekly time trials with both "elite" and "recreational" paddlers racing against each other on a handicap system. This is working extremely well and gives all of us a chance to fairly race each other. The recreational guys learn alot from the serious guys and they take away whatever info they are interested in. Once again Sam at JPP is focused on the fun and fitness side of the sport and the numbers here are increasing weekly.

This weekend's MS Battle of the Paddle in Sydney has both an elite component as well as a fun component where competitors will be using Naish inflatables. This event will be a good litmus test for SUP in Sydney. It will be interesting to see how numbers stack up against the Noosa event.

SUP for the moment tends to cater for older participants (30+) so it is good to see the various age groups being catered for. I know this keeps interest alive for those that feel they cannot compete against Jacko, Beau and the other talented paddlers out there. Even in the older age divisions there is a healthy competitive atmosphere on a National level. (You know who you are)

Windsurfing died because it got too technical and the upper elite racers were catered for and not the average sailor. Hopefully SUP will look after the average paddler.

I think there is a need to have downwinders, marathons and BOP races for the competitive crew but there is an even bigger need to provide fun races for the recreational paddler out there. How the paddlers and industry balance these issues will have a bearing on how the racing side of things progresses.


SUP Australia, Surfing Australia, multiple State and National titles also confuse the issue as do the various insurance and paddling bodies that are all involved in the sport........but I won't go down that track as it's another thread entirely.

Great post John, I think you are spot on. It's no use the elite crew wondering why the social racers aren't turning up to get smashed in the surf or a 20km marathon. They want to race on flat water over manageable distances. In Vicco, we pushed a bit hard this past Summer in trying to get everyone racing longer distances, and even though we provided a shorter "social race" option, the casual racers recognised this as tokenism and not a real race. Consequently, we increased the number of very competitive paddlers at the pointy end which was good to see, but we lost quite a few at the tail end, and that is unfortunate. Next Summer, we will work hard on building the base numbers and welcoming back lapsed racers and prodigal sons. Maybe the Blast program is what we should be looking at.

Sounds like a good idea Paul. I know plans are already underway for a recreational race series in Sydney that will see paddlers race on a number of enclosed waterways (Sydney Harbour, Botany Bay, Pittwater etc) over some achievable distances.

OK. From a newbie.
I buy my 10'6" longboard style sup. Get my wife a 12' all round style. We train for 45 minutes to an hour 4 mornings a week and are both getting fitter and most likely faster. We like that it's a sport / pastime that we can do together.
I surf the other days and ultimately I will get a short board style sup, as well as my other board.
We are thinking about joining the local club and if we decide to do some races, will want to get a 12'6" flatwater race board. But hey, I might do some open water races, so I'll get a 14' downwinder as well. So I think that's 5 boards so far. Now if we want to race in the same events, we will need 2 of each (same age group) as most races are still mixed. So thats?????
I'ts doin my head in!!!
Therein lies the issue of participation.
Really need to dumb it down for races. Having, say a 12' non race board event is not a novelty event, it is a class of it's own. Thats what will get the average punter to join the local clubs, to have fun and do a few events, if they are that way inclined.

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NNSUP said...


I think there is a need to have downwinders, marathons and BOP races for the competitive crew but there is an even bigger need to provide fun races for the recreational paddler out there. How the paddlers and industry balance these issues will have a bearing on how the racing side of things progresses.

NNSUP has it in a nutshell.
By combining the above races, throw in a bbq & beer & everyone goes home happy. More importantly they also want to come back.
The "serious" races we have in SA attract 10-20 paddlers, the social bbq races attract 60-100. We also continually work closely with the local SUP schools to attract beginners to the sport.
Cheers, Fuzz

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NNSUP said...
Sounds like a good idea Paul. I know plans are already underway for a recreational race series in Sydney that will see paddlers race on a number of enclosed waterways (Sydney Harbour, Botany Bay, Pittwater etc) over some achievable distances.

Why not support the existing events on the Open Water Series, Harbour Series and Iceberg Series? There are at least 4 events in each and most have 5/10/15/20 km options and SUPs are invited.

For recreation, OZ SUP in Rose Bay is pretty hard to beat. Two races a week at $10 each and 20-30 participants each time, more than half being on rental boards and the 4km 2 lap/3 point circuit which is adjusted for the wind and tide. Most are local area people so it isn't poaching paddlers from other areas. A number of them go up to JPP on Sunday as well. Plenty of parking and the RSL is 20 metres up the road afterwards. I'm just a happy participant - not sponsored in any way.

I think we need more races in a 'fun run' type formate where the emphasis is on partisapation and just making it to the end no matter how slow or fast you are.

DJ

I agree with DJ. I do not compete nor do i intend to compete. However, if events were a "fun event" or were for a charity or a good cause I would get involved.
ET.

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Sandsy1 said...
Having, say a 12' non race board event is not a novelty event, it is a class of it's own. Thats what will get the average punter to join the local clubs, to have fun and do a few events, if they are that way inclined.

spot on.

Time for a AGM boy's,get your house in order

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Snowie said...

NNSUP said...
Sounds like a good idea Paul. I know plans are already underway for a recreational race series in Sydney that will see paddlers race on a number of enclosed waterways (Sydney Harbour, Botany Bay, Pittwater etc) over some achievable distances.

Why not support the existing events on the Open Water Series, Harbour Series and Iceberg Series? There are at least 4 events in each and most have 5/10/15/20 km options and SUPs are invited.

For recreation, OZ SUP in Rose Bay is pretty hard to beat. Two races a week at $10 each and 20-30 participants each time, more than half being on rental boards and the 4km 2 lap/3 point circuit which is adjusted for the wind and tide. Most are local area people so it isn't poaching paddlers from other areas. A number of them go up to JPP on Sunday as well. Plenty of parking and the RSL is 20 metres up the road afterwards. I'm just a happy participant - not sponsored in any way.

Those series are great Snowie, however, they are primarily a ski series. I appreciate that the organisers have gone out of their way to invite SUPs but it is only the hardcore guys in very small numbers who have been going to those events in the past. There has been lots of discussion within paddling ranks about each of these series and the Open Water series that Dave Kissane has developed has been great as the course has changed based on the needs of the SUPs and not those of the skis. Unfortunately , once again it's only the hardcore doing these events. Dez at "Blast", Sam at JPP and Belly at OZ Sup get the numbers because they are catering for those that want to have fun. Is another series the answer? I don't know. It is good to know, however, that there are people within the industry who are looking at the situation and trying to come up with an answer that will encourage the recreational paddler. .

Some really good comments here, whilst I agree with most, I think the one determining factor that seems to be overlooked, as you can have as many "fun races" as you like, but if the weather is against the day's activities then those "fun paddlers" just dont turn up and that only the more serious paddlers do, as evidenced in the recently held events down here in Victoria.

I agree with NNSUP. Give me a harbour or river race any day over a ocean race.

Ocean races are difficult because i keep falling in. No joy paddling on your knees.

Id would like to be able to invite friends along to compete ( you can not invite them to a ocean race)

If you are able to paddle for a benefit such as this weekend MS paddle to battle then you can contribute to a cause (tax deductable as well)

Hope this helps

I love the idea of one design racing in an accessible class for weekend (read not pro) racers. SUP is very fragmented right now - and a s a SUP er of 6 years this puts me off many aspects of the sport competitively. Surf boards are getting too short , Race boards are getting crazy long with various confusing classes... think i will just go paddle my 10'5 in some small waves and not be bothered with it all as it seems too hard.

VIDEO

This next bit will seem a bit self serving given what i do for a living. There are a few good freelance video shooters / editors around the country that can cover these events with a video -(remember video includes good quality audio) that is edited and posted within a few days of the event.

By cover i mean being experienced enough to be able to tell the story of the event.

Not just a bunch of animated photos in a "video"
Not just 1 tripod shot off the beach of the riders coming and going.

You need

Set the scene with some establishing wides,
Pre race interviews with good audio,
Nail a start wide shot,
a variety of angles at key points during the event ,
perhaps a few LIMITED go pro shots, good coverage of most of the racers/ surfers, the finish,
post race interviews ,
pick up the vibe/ post race endorphin rush from non winners,
sponsors logos

This can be done on modest budgets - not like the hideous loads of cash that full blown production companies with big overheads need to charge. I have seen $100 000 blown on event production that never even went to air - or even web.

At the same time more harm than good can come of amatuerish coverage with windnoise all over the mic, limited angles / story telling - dont get me wrong - its good to have - but not to have as the official event video.

There is a sweet spot...This is where small dslr shooters like Rambo and myself can help out. We are shooters,sound guys and editors all in one.





As well as video camera presence on the day adding a boost to the energy on the day -Entrants will be stoked to be able to relive the event, - especially when the highlights go to facebook that night and the edit is ready on the wednesday after the event- the edit needs to go up FAST (preferably live with some more budget)to capitalise on the energy / awareness of the event.

sponsors will get more coverage and you can just link the video to FB , other websites, SUP mags etc etc

And then the event grows from year to year as the word spreads far and wide- rather than evaporating amongst the many other events that are also happening.

SUNDAY 24th May KINGSCLIFF "FUN RACE"

START AT 9am SHARP NSW TIME 5ks on flat water

CLasses Under 14 foot / over 14 foot Open/Women/Junior/ aged .... everyone in a prize draw for two Illusions Stand UP Paddle Boards .... FCS Board Bags for SUPs .. leases Sunglasses .. YOu get a competition T-Shirt and Lots of other free stuff ..

YOU can also watch the BOP Race which starts at 10:30 ...
all info at www.australianlongboardopen ....

Reading this thread got me thinking about how to get SUP racing started at our local windsurfing club (over 400 members). I just wrote an email to a fellow club member to see if we can organize something for the coming season. I'm copying my email below. Happy to hear further ideas or suggestions on how to tweak things.

My email:

The majority (like 90%+) of SUPers are not that interested in training hard, buying the fastest gear, killing yourself during an all-out effort during a long race, and being as competitive as possible. However, a significant number of them could be interested in an informal, fun race that has the following attributes:
- Gives almost everyone an opportunity to think about being competitive
- Social: simple BBQ, beer, etc. after the race
- Not too long a race
- Doesn't require the latest, fastest gear to be competitive
- Fun for everyone - all ages and abilities

I figure one way to achieve this is by having a relay race that creates competitive teams. We could classify paddlers according to their speed (regardless of age, sex, board type). For example, 4 classes of racers from fastest to slowest: Gold, Red, Blue, and White. Each racer is assigned to one of these classes.

We could create relay teams with paddlers from various classes. It doesn't necessarily have to be a team of 4.

This should make for a very close and fun race.

We could determine appropriate cut off times for each class based on a course that anyone could do on their own. For example, one lap from the beach in front of the clubhouse (at the blue plastic drainage pipe) to the red marker in the Eastern Gap and back (2km). People could time themselves whenever they want to determine which class they're in.

On race day, depending on how many racers there were, we could make teams of 2,3,or 4 racers based on appropriate class mixes on each relay team. You could have a team of a Gold+White racer going against a team of a Red+Blue racer. We'd probably want to stick to no more than 3 racers per team since that would already be a 6km course in total. Alternatively, if we had a lot of people, we could lay our own shorter course of about 1km per lap and run teams of 4.

The team concept would build camaraderie among the team members, even if they just met, as they cheer each other on. Great for the social aspect and the BBQ afterwards.

If there was interest, we could also run a regular race of 1 or 2 laps after the relay race where people compete individually in the traditional 14' or 12'6" classes.

We could advertise this SUP race series on our web site and send email notices to inform all club members. Of course, anyone outside the club would be welcome as well. Maybe we could have this type of race once every 3 or 4 weeks during the summer. We could devise some sort of points system where you get points for how well your team did but the points would accrue to each individual because, it's unlikely that the same team members will show up for all races. So at the end, almost anyone could win depending on how often they showed up and how their teams did, even if the individual were from a slower class.

Having an ongoing series with tracked results (posted online) will add interest and encourage people to keep coming out. Over time it's natural that paddlers will want to improve into the next faster class, so this will provide motivation as well. It encourages beginners and slower paddlers to get into racing since they're not finishing last in every race.

After the races, we'd have a simple BBQ with beer, etc.

On selected nights, we could hold SUP gear demos or info sessions such as paddling technique, buoy turns, downwind paddling, gear info, etc.

DJ is right. Develop the fun racing side and the performance racing side might have a chance.

I think "proper" SUP racing is doomed from the start. SUPs are too slow for proper racing.

I watched the Doctor race on TV recently. The SUPs went off 15 minutes before the surf ski women, followed 15 minutes later by the surf ski men. The first woman passed the SUPs in 15 minutes and the men passed them shortly after.

The skis were averaging 17+ kph the SUPs were doing barely 10 kph. They looked like wobbley kooks.

The other thing is that SUP has already sprinted down the windsurf tunnel and is well and truly wedged in. Who wants to buy a 14-17' SUP in exotic materials for $2500 that is going to break the first time you try to put it on the roof of your car?

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NNSUP said...

Those series are great Snowie, however, they are primarily a ski series. I appreciate that the organisers have gone out of their way to invite SUPs but it is only the hardcore guys in very small numbers who have been going to those events in the past. There has been lots of discussion within paddling ranks about each of these series and the Open Water series that Dave Kissane has developed has been great as the course has changed based on the needs of the SUPs and not those of the skis. Unfortunately , once again it's only the hardcore doing these events. Dez at "Blast", Sam at JPP and Belly at OZ Sup get the numbers because they are catering for those that want to have fun. Is another series the answer? I don't know. It is good to know, however, that there are people within the industry who are looking at the situation and trying to come up with an answer that will encourage the recreational paddler. .

Yes, agreed that they're currently ski-centric, but that could be changed if SUPs get involved in the organisation. A lot of effort must go into duplicating all the water license approvals, risk assessments, insurance, results & admin for another series that might be better spent on BOPs and DWers. Maybe all it needs is some shorter course lengths as a lot of them are flatwater and suitable for recreational paddlers.

Dez's Summer Series works because it gets skis down as well - there haven't been more than 35 SUPs there and I'd guess there aren't more than 60 SUPs in Sydney interested in racing at this point and that's very fractured between recreational, intermediate and elite racers. It will be difficult to go it alone until numbers build up. Maybe the answer is to go with what we have for the elites and work on the rec, intermediates & juniors so that the bottom of the pyramid will feed through to the top.

I don't know what the answer is either but Sydney and the coastal region seems fairly healthy right now.

flat water races -pffffff.

no way am i doing them. its bad enough training in it

Check out this series which has just wrapped up its first season in Auckland tonight www.citysurfseries.com . It has gone really well with up to 100 paddlers each week. Couple of points that have made it work well.
- distinct divisions which are all competitive meaning you are racing similar skill levels, novice, surfboard, intermediate 12 6, elite 12 6 and 14. The class which impressed me was the surfboard with really high numbers.
- variety of courses based on wind direction, which kept it interesting and challenging technically. A lot of m shaped type courses with gates etc...these evened up racing between the 12 6 and 14s
- family friendly atmosphere, makes it easy to obtain leave passes when the wife is doing the novice and the kids are entertained on the beach with free sponsor giveaways
- excellent social media coverage with heaps of photos posted after the event and banter etc on Facebook
- prize giving straight after with loads of quality spot prizes, they have saved presenting the placegetters their gongs until the end of season do...this has made it way more social
- it's based at a busy city beach and there are loads of demos and have a go sessions linked in, they extended this to run free have a go races
- heaps of innovation, a dash for cash race and free meat packs for family bbqs were a couple of examples

All up it was brilliant and got a lot of people into racing. It catered for everyone from the elites to the first timers. Bring on series 2

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laceys lane said...
flat water races -pffffff.

no way am i doing them. its bad enough training in it

I have to disagree here Lacey,see 80% of noviceI know you hate that word[}:)]would love to race in flatwater,the prone guys would support this

Couple of wins there mate

Flat water races are where the numbers will be simple , always a place for downwinders , bop ect , but if sup wants mass participation this is where it will be.Short races 5k the odd 10k and sprint races How many parents would be comfortable sending their kids 2 to 4 k offshore in a downwind race or 3 to 4ft bop race.Any way i think sup racing world wide is going off , early days

A little off topic but my take on racing and what ways it should be looked at are like this.

There should definately be more flat water races with a mixture of divisions (pro, age, board length). For this sport to ever make it to mainstream it needs to be excessible to all types of people. Hence why most com and Olympic sports are so popular (unfortunately BOP or downwinding will never make it to the olympics IMO but events like flat water racing similar to the kayaking events could hence increasing exposure and popularity)

Don't get me wrong I think there is still a need for BOP (love watching this) and Downwinding (really want to get better at this) but everyone starts out on the flats where they feel comfortable and then next human nature kicks in where you want to beat your mate from point a to point b.

So the solution here is like many have said before create races from 2k upto 10k on the flats have divisions, pro, age specific etc, only allow entry into one division ONLY and reward those divisions accordingly (pros get biggest money prize, ages get there entry reimbursed + prizes etc)

You need to give not so skilled paddlers an incentive to race and want to strive to become better if they choose.