Facts;

The Port Phillip Cup on Australia Day in StKilda Victoria, was close to a 2.7km race, with 2 minute Handicaps. It was a close race, and would have been really close at 3.0km, between Womens, and Men 12'6, and Unlimited. Handicaps were;
- 2.7km race
- 0 minutes - Women, Girls, Boys, any board (unlimited)
- 2 minutes - Open Mens, 12'6
- 4 minutes - Open Mens, Unlimited

Not a bad stagger.
Better again might be as follows;
- per 3km
- minus 30secs, Girls
- minus 15secs, Boys
- 0 minutes - Women (probably needs to be split into 12'6 & unlimited)
- 2 & 4 mins for Men 12'6 and Unlimited (or 2 & 3mins45/3mins30?)

Just a suggestion anyway. Comments welcome.

Note/Edit: Conditions were a light 5-10 knot breeze with mild bump and chop on the bay, head wind, then tail wind. Not pure flat water, but pretty close to it.

(I'm pretty sure that the times from Port Phillip Cup Vic, Australia Day, were not recorded, which is a shame).

Simon

Should be done on weight the heavier you are the bigger start you get

Or all competitors should have the same weight on board ie if the heaviest Open competitor is 108kg all other open competitors should have ballast added to equal that weight.

Only chance I will ever have

I like your thinking Hilly. Give the other Qld girls an extra 20-30kg weight on their boards and I might be in with a chance
On the other hand sometimes having a bit more weight can be a good thing - as long as it's muscle.

Yes, i think you are on the money!

I think that women and under 16 should have a 2- 3min advantage on 12'6 and under.
Women on an open class board should start at the same time as the mens 12'6 class or maybe a 1 min advantage.
And open class mens should be at 2-3 min handicap.
Over the 3 km distance I think that would be fair for all the serious contenders.
Also speaking of board classes, i think that it should be standardized like in the US, ie: 12'6 and under, 14'class with fixed fin and open class which are usually 16' and over with a rudder system. What does everybody else think?

Select to expand quote

Ali Cat said...

I like your thinking Hilly. Give the other Qld girls an extra 20-30kg weight on their boards and I might be in with a chance
On the other hand sometimes having a bit more weight can be a good thing - as long as it's muscle.

Baa, Ali come on just train harder :)

To get back on topic, if you consider weight then you also need to consider arm spans, paddle weight and length, blade size... If you want to make it fair there's no limit to that list sadly.

I'm no fan of these handicap system personally so my not very useful contribution will stop here... Good luck with the fine tuning

Power to weight and good teq and then it shouldn't matter weather you have a tit's or not!!

Select to expand quote

paul.j said...

Power to weight and good teq and then it shouldn't matter weather you have a tit's or not!!

babahahahahabababaloloolololololol, your funny jacko but it's very true.

I personally don't want handicap as it wouldn't give me true idea of much i need to improve to match the guys.

To be a top female paddler you will have to match the guys speed if you want to get anywhere.

It's all to do with power to weight ratio, nothing to do with how much a person weights.

Some of the girls up here are actually starting to match the guys over a short distance and i don't think it will be long before you see them only 1 or 2 min behind the guys over 10km eg.

So bring on the day that i can only be few minutes behind jacko.
XX angie

All about power to weight? At 108kg I need to get some more power when taking on the 70kg boys lol.

Even considered that a lighter rider on a 12 6 will stay on runners a lot longer. So if I take jacko on in 12 6 same board I need to be more than stronger I would need to defy physics. I would push more water as I would lower in the water

Select to expand quote

paul.j said...

Power to weight and good teq and then it shouldn't matter weather you have a tit's or not!!

Enters the stuff from above: arm span/lentgh, paddle spec etc etc to determine the force times the displacement cause by a stroke... Which is power :)

I share the same view as Angi regarding my progress compare the rest of the pack... I can see the appeal of the everyone getting a chance to win formula from an organiser point of view. But I think bragging rights would be void, cant have that supressed..

2 min head start = no bragging rights. The times over the distance should be taken and the fastest time wins, just like any sporting race.

I would start with the guys if that was the case as i consider myself equal in paddling experiance & i should be as good as the boys.

There is no reason why girls can't be as fast as the boys.

It's happening aswell, girls overseas are kicking boys butts regardless of their size!

So i don't think they would like the 2minute head start option much. The reason why these girls have gotten so fast? cos the train with the boys and there's no head starts in their races.

In my eyes either male or female we are equal in SUP racing, so please let's not play the poor little innocent females story.

However i do feel that females should be awarded the same equal prize money as we do train the same and paddle just as hard during a race. But for that to happen there needs to be more females competing.

I could go on and on about why i feel this shouldn't happen but i will stop here.

XX angie

Every one should be on equal footing with categories as discussed re board size ,women, mens and juniors with a new class ,masters over 50's ,it's only a matter of time for all of you so it should be included, now were talk'n

come on angie women cant beat men!

Select to expand quote

dtm said...

come on angie women cant beat men!

Have you paddled against Angie lately?

Select to expand quote

Ali Cat said...

dtm said...

come on angie women cant beat men!

Have you paddled against Angie lately?

Ive been flogged by Angie and a few other girls too ,You girls a great paddlers and very fit , but i think giving you a handicap against the guys is a good idea , its not about an even playing field because guys have a genetic advantage simple as that.You could train your bums off , but you will never match a guy who trains his but off too.
skill yes , strength and endurance no!

sorry if i upset any of you , just an opinion.

Select to expand quote

teatrea said...

Ali Cat said...

dtm said...

come on angie women cant beat men!

Have you paddled against Angie lately?

Ive been flogged by Angie and a few other girls too ,You girls a great paddlers and very fit , but i think giving you a handicap against the guys is a good idea , its not about an even playing field because guys have a genetic advantage simple as that.You could train your bums off , but you will never match a guy who trains his but off too.
skill yes , strength and endurance no!

sorry if i upset any of you , just an opinion.

they can try and they are getting closer and when they do race other girls, well, we will see what happens

i might add there is rather a few of us blokes chasing the top boys too you know
mark

Select to expand quote

ockanui said...

masters over 50's, now were talk'n

Everyone,
Even if your local race has everyone off scratch, you can use those above times as a rough guide (to how far infront or behind you should be).... until someone produces an alternate set of "guide times".

I still think the staggered starts in Melbourne are a bit of fun !!

Select to expand quote

laceys lane said...

teatrea said...

Ali Cat said...

dtm said...

come on angie women cant beat men!

Have you paddled against Angie lately?

Ive been flogged by Angie and a few other girls too ,You girls a great paddlers and very fit , but i think giving you a handicap against the guys is a good idea , its not about an even playing field because guys have a genetic advantage simple as that.You could train your bums off , but you will never match a guy who trains his but off too.
skill yes , strength and endurance no!

sorry if i upset any of you , just an opinion.

they can try and they are getting closer and when they do race other girls, well, we will see what happens

i might add there is rather a few of us blokes chasing the top boys too you know
mark

Their skills , talent determination i wouldnt question ,the girls ive seen are as talented as fit and as skillfull as the blokes , but they are at a disadvantage. Do you think serina williams would beat Nadal , hayley bateup beat trevor hendy.Ect

My daughter beats most of the guys she races against at her club too , but she will never beat a male athlete of similar skill and training.Thats my point.

Im not bashing the girls , hell i love girlsFacts are Facts mate , when a female paddler wins Bob or Molakai ill be happy to eat my words.

Hi Guys, No offence taken by me. I love your all comments.

I will still stride to beat or atleast keep up with the likes of a jacko. I'm back at Gym pumping weights to make myself stronger. Lets see if that makes any differance over time.

XX angie

Select to expand quote

angie pangi said...

Hi Guys, No offence taken by me. I love your all comments.

I will still stride to beat or atleast keep up with the likes of a jacko. I'm back at Gym pumping weights to make myself stronger. Lets see if that makes any differance over time.

XX angie

Im glad i didnt offend you , thought i might be in troubleI just thought if the girls want to race the blokes in a real comp, then a handicap would be fair.But i can see where your coming from , no quarter given and none asked ,thats the spirit.I know one thing you girls will beat lots of the boys and continue to do soBut beating Jacko , good luck with that one , you could always put a little something in his dinner before a race.Nothing like a good laxative.

Select to expand quote

teatrea said...

laceys lane said...

teatrea said...

Ali Cat said...

dtm said...

come on angie women cant beat men!

Have you paddled against Angie lately?

Ive been flogged by Angie and a few other girls too ,You girls a great paddlers and very fit , but i think giving you a handicap against the guys is a good idea , its not about an even playing field because guys have a genetic advantage simple as that.You could train your bums off , but you will never match a guy who trains his but off too.
skill yes , strength and endurance no!

sorry if i upset any of you , just an opinion.

they can try and they are getting closer and when they do race other girls, well, we will see what happens

i might add there is rather a few of us blokes chasing the top boys too you know
mark

Their skills , talent determination i wouldnt question ,the girls ive seen are as talented as fit and as skillfull as the blokes , but they are at a disadvantage. Do you think serina williams would beat Nadal , hayley bateup beat trevor hendy.Ect

My daughter beats most of the guys she races against at her club too , but she will never beat a male athlete of similar skill and training.Thats my point.

Im not bashing the girls , hell i love girlsFacts are Facts mate , when a female paddler wins Bob or Molakai ill be happy to eat my words.

yeah, i not begging to differ, but most of the girls around here don't seem to want a handicap. i wouldn't want a handicap start against the guns either- i'would rather try and chase then be run down

Fair enough mate , but im after any handicap i can get Lol.And thats so i can keep up with the girls.

The staggered starts over here were to keep the field together at the end. Illustrated well in reflex films vid of the end of the mr race with sup and kayak coming in at the same time. Safety guys like it to as the field bunches up rather than spreads out.

Select to expand quote

hilly said...

The staggered starts over here were to keep the field together at the end. Illustrated well in reflex films vid of the end of the mr race with sup and kayak coming in at the same time. Safety guys like it to as the field bunches up rather than spreads out.

i'm all for staggered starts when it comes to sups oc's skis etc in a race
cheers

I love Angies spirit. She is making men look slow daily and I hope she enjoys it! Her thinking and determination against the blokes will be one of the reasons her (jen, Ali and coming on very strong Sim) will be at the pointy end of womens racing In Aust for a bit to come.

I read a story about Steph Gilmore who used to have to surf against the blokes in Snapper comps, these guys are one of the strongest clubs. In short competing against them made her lift and be 4 work titles and counting better than the other girls. There's no point training to be the best in your own fish bowl.