You can now get Sup's as light as you want them but at around 4 inches thick these light boards are like corks making them unsettled in the chop.I think too much empashisis is getting put on floatation and you can't sink the board to get it on it's rail. People are scared with on water on the deck when you are paddling and get extra thickess put in to fatten up for the float.

For me to much meat in the sandwich makes the board overly responsive making your feet shift constantly for the sweet spot , maybe the foams are getting too light with no density absourb the bumps.

The litre thing is a bad gauge board profile is much more important , so what if your ankles are wet this can actually make the board more stable than if you float 1 inch above , you might have work a little harder to stay on initally but the peformance advantage is insane.

My 2 Bobs.

Rob

good points , i would agree with that.Ive noticed with my board it surfs great when youre right on the tail , but not so good where the volume is through the middle.

I find that having a bit of water over the deck is more stable, once you get used to it that is. I jumped on a high volume 10'6 a few weeks back and found it bounced with every slight bit of chop moving through, felt like I was standing on a big bouncy cork. Where as my 9'3 that is a lot lower in the water I find much more comfortable.

Naish have a new accessory to help with their low volume boards.

I'm going to assume that the nose(s) of your board(s) are out of the water despite the wet ankles or how else would you plane down onto the wave face without face planting?

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Piros said...

You can now get Sup's as light as you want them but at around 4 inches thick these light boards are like corks making them unsettled in the chop.I think too much empashisis is getting put on floatation and you can't sink the board to get it on it's rail. People are scared with on water on the deck when you are paddling and get extra thickess put in to fatten up for the float.

Hey Rob, totally agree although I think it is important how the volume is distributed. My latest that Dan made me, is 4 1/2 inches thick but with a domed deck running into low volume rails. Like wise the width/volume of the tail is low making it easy to sink when needed.

The volume in the middle provides enough volume so I'm not completely underwater although the rails are. I agree that this is less unstable than a SUP with high volume rails that seem to bounch you around in chop.

I think its interesting that some of the larger manufactures seem to base their (high performance) designs on the theory that you need high volume rails for stability.

Another interesting thing about the lower volume boards is that because the board is sitting lower in the water your center of gravity is lower as well - similar to the effect of the concave decks.

i agree the trick is were you put the volume.thats the fun part r&d

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goatman said...

Piros said...

You can now get Sup's as light as you want them but at around 4 inches thick these light boards are like corks making them unsettled in the chop.I think too much empashisis is getting put on floatation and you can't sink the board to get it on it's rail. People are scared with on water on the deck when you are paddling and get extra thickess put in to fatten up for the float.

Hey Rob, totally agree although I think it is important how the volume is distributed. My latest that Dan made me, is 4 1/2 inches thick but with a domed deck running into low volume rails. Like wise the width/volume of the tail is low making it easy to sink when needed.

The volume in the middle provides enough volume so I'm not completely underwater although the rails are. I agree that this is less unstable than a SUP with high volume rails that seem to bounch you around in chop.

I think its interesting that some of the larger manufactures seem to base their (high performance) designs on the theory that you need high volume rails for stability.

Another interesting thing about the lower volume boards is that because the board is sitting lower in the water your center of gravity is lower as well - similar to the effect of the concave decks.

It's taken a while but the some of the major suppliers have some great rockets in their range now. PSH , Naish & LSD have seen the light and are producing some really nice performance boards all in the very low 100 litre range to cater for the ever changing market , big call for them to do it but it reflects at just how fast this sport is moving.Ron House did it from the outset with his 9-6 , 9-1 & 8-10 over 2 years ago and C4 also had some early skinny models but they never caught on here back then as we were all new too new to the sport.

Custom/home shapers are busier than ever here as everyone thins and tunes their boards for that ultimate shape. That's the best part about being envolved in Stand Up's.... being part of the evolution.

Rob

i don't think the bigger guys get enough credit when they drop down to say, low 9 footers imo. it's low volume for them. anything where your feet are in water for most of the time is low volume, it's just some boards do it better then others
cheers

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laceys lane said...

i don't think the bigger guys get enough credit when they drop down to say, low 9 footers imo. it's low volume for them. anything where your feet are in water for most of the time is low volume, it's just some boards do it better then others
cheers

I need lots of credit then as 11 footers are underwater

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hilly said...

laceys lane said...

i don't think the bigger guys get enough credit when they drop down to say, low 9 footers imo. it's low volume for them. anything where your feet are in water for most of the time is low volume, it's just some boards do it better then others
cheers

I need lots of credit then as 11 footers are underwater

crikey

Totally agree Rob. I am 95kg and prefer the board to have a bit of water on the deck. My new board (9' Naish Hokua) performs fantasticlly and it pretty stable.



I got a board made from Tully a couple of months back for the wife and it also has a wash over the deck at times when I ride it, and again it is a great board.





Actually I just wanted to show off the graphic.

Have to agree Swanie I rode the Naish 9-0 hokua last Friday nice board exactly what I'm talking about and Tully he has always been on the money.

Hey dudes,

I am in Cali and have been trying to dial in lower volume boards. Tried a low volume C-4 (8 x 27) but the rails were all wrong. Coming off of a custom Imagine Eco 8'5" (by 28 by 4) with super sharp rails (quad) but it was shaped from eco foam (super heavy) and I snapped it on a big day... put back together but heavy... so I teamed up with my lifetime shortboard shaper Roger Hinds of Counrty Surfboards to make the ultimate low volume standup. Used the outline of the PSH 8'6" x 28 (but the bottom was a tragic soft rolled v and the rails were like a windsurfer)... used the rails of the Imagin Eco... went 8'6" by 28 by 4 with super stepped rails... single concave running all the way through.

I am 6 1" ish 195 ish. The volume is probably 95 or so.

Have not had it in good surf but it runs like made, is super loose and hits the lip like a drunken red neck with a smart ass wife.

I am in Cali. Here is my low volume collaboration with super shaper Roger Hinds of Seal Beach, California. Outline of the PSH 8'6" but single concave instead of a weak rolled v... and hard rails. (8'6" by 28 by 4... super thin rails, nose and tail).




Runs like a greyhound and hits the lip like a drunken redneck with a smart aleck wife.

Two more pics

Sorry guys, new to the forum and not too adept at it yet...

Tim

Runs like a greyhound and hits the lip like a drunken redneck with a smart aleck wife.
Well that's a new one

Mate beautiful looking board just love it bring it down under , I can see that being a popular down here.

Rob

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Piros said...

You can now get Sup's as light as you want them but at around 4 inches thick these light boards are like corks making them unsettled in the chop.

For me to much meat in the sandwich makes the board overly responsive making your feet shift constantly for the sweet spot , maybe the foams are getting too light with no density absourb the bumps.

Rob

Been thinking about this. The closer the boards get to shortboards in my mind the more shortboard design traits and materials will apply.

Goaty will love this one. Maybe it's time to get the blank companies making PU SUP blanks to reduce the density and weights of the SUP PU blank. Glass the board light in Epoxy and that could be the future in settled design right there. It is feasible to make an 8'6 at around 6-7kgs or even lighter with the right foam and glass. Maybe ultralight PU with sorric or Lantor deck patches glassed in Epoxy.

Seriously, there is a reason why EPS/Epoxy is not popular in shortboards (surfs like crap) and as SUP gets closer to shortboarding I still believe there is legs in the argument for light PU for performance.

are you spon'ed off sticky bumps? if so nice product placement

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CMC said...

Been thinking about this. The closer the boards get to shortboards in my mind the more shortboard design traits and materials will apply.

Goaty will love this one. Maybe it's time to get the blank companies making PU SUP blanks to reduce the density and weights of the SUP PU blank. Glass the board light in Epoxy and that could be the future in settled design right there. It is feasible to make an 8'6 at around 6-7kgs or even lighter with the right foam and glass. Maybe ultralight PU with sorric or Lantor deck patches glassed in Epoxy.

Seriously, there is a reason why EPS/Epoxy is not popular in shortboards (surfs like crap) and as SUP gets closer to shortboarding I still believe there is legs in the argument for light PU for performance.

Hey CMC, don't care what they're made of as long as we can get em around the 5-6 kg mark before grip/fins.

I am still not convinced that PU/epoxy will feel significantly different.

Wish you guys could try these new designs/weights, they would blow your mind. We will try and get some vid in decent surf instead of wind blown cr@p

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paul.j said...

are you spon'ed off sticky bumps? if so nice product placement

Just trying to give some size perspective... I am sponsored by the sweat of my brow... Beholden to none... Free to criticize all...

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goatman said...

CMC said...

Been thinking about this. The closer the boards get to shortboards in my mind the more shortboard design traits and materials will apply.

Goaty will love this one. Maybe it's time to get the blank companies making PU SUP blanks to reduce the density and weights of the SUP PU blank. Glass the board light in Epoxy and that could be the future in settled design right there. It is feasible to make an 8'6 at around 6-7kgs or even lighter with the right foam and glass. Maybe ultralight PU with sorric or Lantor deck patches glassed in Epoxy.

Seriously, there is a reason why EPS/Epoxy is not popular in shortboards (surfs like crap) and as SUP gets closer to shortboarding I still believe there is legs in the argument for light PU for performance.

Hey CMC, don't care what they're made of as long as we can get em around the 5-6 kg mark before grip/fins.

I am still not convinced that PU/epoxy will feel significantly different.

Wish you guys could try these new designs/weights, they would blow your mind. We will try and get some vid in decent surf instead of wind blown cr@p

I wish I could try them as well

Actually, I am down in Wallyworld / Narrabeen for a few days end of November, I might look you guys up if time permits for an early. Won't be bringing a SUP with me so will speak to Trav or the like to borrow one.

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CMC said...

I wish I could try them as well

Actually, I am down in Wallyworld / Narrabeen for a few days end of November, I might look you guys up if time permits for an early. Won't be bringing a SUP with me so will speak to Trav or the like to borrow one.

Definitely, PM us before you come, I try and surf most mornings. Dan's got plenty of boards as well

We got a nice 2-3 meter swell running ATM

Hey Strandleper what foam did you use ?

I am 6 1" ish 195 ish. The volume is probably 95 or so.

That's not much litres for a big fella , very hard to tell from the pics but the foam looks fairly dence and not that floaty. You must be pretty good on your feet.

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Piros said...

Hey Strandleper what foam did you use ?

I am 6 1" ish 195 ish. The volume is probably 95 or so.

That's not much litres for a big fella , very hard to tell from the pics but the foam looks fairly dence and not that floaty. You must be pretty good on your feet.

1.5 pound EPS...

Learned thevfootwork on the 8'0" x 27 C4.

Ankles are wet paddling this one but can still roam the lineup pretty well.

Thigs and abs burning hard after three hous though.

Working on an "Everyman" template with Roger too... Based largely on the starboard 8'5 x28 Tiki... But with surfboard rails and a single concave... S/b 105 - 110 liters...

But Roger can scale up the above model for bigger guys...

The right weight for this board is probably 165 or so... But I don't mind the work.