GoPro Malfunction

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Downwinder
Downwinder
QLD
2095 posts
QLD, 2095 posts
19 Jul 2012 6:59pm
GoPro Malfunction
G'day Breezes how many different way have you tried to stop your GoPro from fogging up. Can we have a brain storm on this subject. Looking forward to your comments, be much appreciated. I'll start with some easy ones.

1. Anti Fog accessory designed specifically for the HD HERO camera
2. Anti Fog spray used inside the camera housing
3. Hair Dryer
4. Car Heater
5. Car Air-conditioning
nikmcc
nikmcc
NSW
260 posts
NSW, 260 posts
19 Jul 2012 7:15pm
Best way is to buy the gopro anti fog inserts.

I orginally thought they were a rip off at $25 and only 4-5 uses.... But, turns out they mean 4-5 uses, then dry them out in the oven and go for another 4-5 times.

So, there not disposable. Keep using them.

Another way,

Buy some silica gel (moisture absorber) place your gopro (charged, ready go, in open case) and the silica gel pouch in a zip lock bag. Leave overnight....
Then close up your camera housing before you open the zip lock bag.
Now, the inside of your housing should be completely dry, and fog should not build up.

I sometimes do both at once (anti fog strips in the case, in the ziplock bag), but the anitfog things alone seem to work fine.
nikmcc
nikmcc
NSW
260 posts
NSW, 260 posts
19 Jul 2012 7:17pm
edit...

Just re-read your post.

Are you saying you've tried the anitfog inserts and still get fog?

If so, do as I mentioned and do both the inserts and the silica gel bag trick....
Scotty88
Scotty88
4214 posts
4214 posts
19 Jul 2012 5:20pm
I just don't turn it on and therefore doesn't heat up much.
Just paddle around with the GoPro on my head and still look the part.

BTW, where's my avatar gone Laurie/Green Pat ?
FlyingKiwi
FlyingKiwi
QLD
218 posts
QLD, 218 posts
19 Jul 2012 8:26pm
I have the inserts for my GOPRO and the last time I used them, they fogged, first time this has happened.

I think it was a combination of too much moisture in the inserts themselves, needing to be put back in the oven and cold water, hotter air temp.

I have also read that once the housing is dry keep it open and let the ambient air into it in the same environment your going to use the camera, ie load the camera at the beach, place inserts into it and see how it goes.

Could always be an urban legend tho.

My 2 cents worth. the silica beads idea is a good one too, I might try that.
cameron2156
cameron2156
WA
149 posts
WA, 149 posts
19 Jul 2012 6:28pm
aircon on cold for 2 minutes with you case open with no camera in it then shut camera in as quik as u can, 9\10 will not fog
ShireSUP
ShireSUP
NSW
982 posts
NSW, 982 posts
19 Jul 2012 10:17pm
Dont have a gopro.............no one wants to see my crotch...............
Scotty88
Scotty88
4214 posts
4214 posts
19 Jul 2012 8:24pm
ShireSUP said...

Dont have a gopro.............no one wants to see my crotch...............


Not wrong.
JohnnyMaya
JohnnyMaya
196 posts
196 posts
20 Jul 2012 3:40am
Another thing you can do is to use the one button mode.
The camera will be ON for shorter periods of time and for that reason the air inside the housing won't warm up as much.

This and the anti fog strips solved the fogging problem on mine.
FlyingKiwi
FlyingKiwi
QLD
218 posts
QLD, 218 posts
20 Jul 2012 8:50am
Damn it, I use the one button mode and have had it fog twice, still think it was because the inserts need to be dehumidified.

JohnnyMaya said...

Another thing you can do is to use the one button mode.
The camera will be ON for shorter periods of time and for that reason the air inside the housing won't warm up as much.

This and the anti fog strips solved the fogging problem on mine.


ka222
ka222
VIC
633 posts
VIC, 633 posts
20 Jul 2012 11:24am
I use a SCOTT MX goggle anti fog cloth wipe on the inside of the GoPro case lens..
It's a small cloth with a chemical in it which gets rid of any fogging - just re-apply it each time you use the GoPro... (yes I work for SCOTT - not a plug I am sure there are other similar brand products avail)

It works well but if you leave the GoPro on for hours it will prob get some fogging still
very frustrating when good footage gets ruined by a fogged lens

Is the HD2 gopro better than the first HD for fogging?
Downwinder
Downwinder
QLD
2095 posts
QLD, 2095 posts
22 Jul 2012 6:02am
Thanks for the information everyone
I'm in very interesting talks with the CEO Chris Manager, GoPro Support
cut a long story short, GoPro know the HD HERO 2 is a s##t camera but went into production anyway? the heat from the camera does not mix with well water there is nothing you can possible do to stop the fogging the Anti fog inserts are just a con sell and yes the HD HERO 2 fogs up too three time faster than the original Hero. Why waist your time switching the HD HERO 2 off and on every five minutes just to stop it from fogging. Don't get sucked into buying the HD HERO 2 like I did to film your water sport.
PeterP
PeterP
873 posts
873 posts
22 Jul 2012 6:17am
I was initially also entirely un-impressed with the fogging and the non-effect of the anti-fog strips - but since I've done the aircon trick I haven't had it fog up once...touch wood.

One would imagine that a clever design would eliminate the fogging - or at least move it to another area of the housing - why does it have to be right on the lens, the one place you don't want it????
Reflex Films
Reflex Films
WA
1460 posts
WA, 1460 posts
22 Jul 2012 12:48pm
i am afraid fogging will never be a non issue when you are mixing cameras with water - but if you take the time to manage the issue 9/10 times you will be fine.

Unfortunately The most challenging scenario to manage is a wet camera experiencing evaporative cooling - and also salt coming out of solution as the camera dries- this effect is worse on Jet skis / sail boards / kites moving rapidly through the air. But with some discipline you can make sure that 90 % of your footage turns out sweet.

I am not sure how to put this but - your response makes you sound like a bull in a china shop - and well done for dobbing in the guy that tried to help you out -dont you think there might be some ramifications for him - all for trying to be candid with you ? (or did you just make up his comments to you?)

You think a camera is **** because it is powered and gets warm ?

the more i read your post the more it looks like a rival company troll set up i am afraid.

frankly the quality / price point that Go Pro are offering is insane. Sure the footage has been done to death - personally i will be very happy if i never watch another 10 min downwinder paddling clip for the rest of my life -

Alot of riders get enjoyment for themselves (possibly not their audience) from being able to capture moments on the water.

- and we all have the choice not to watch these clips ourselves.

Generally speaking - for video production- Go pro shots should only really be a cutaway and not a main shot- and they can be very cool when used this way
(and they make fantastic /cost effective /easy mount /weatherproof timelapse photography too)


Its misguided responses from punters like you that make great companies like Go Pro less willing to be candid with their customer base. Which would be sad because to date Go pro company culture is famous for listening to their users.

Unfortunately their success makes them a sitting duck for the 4 or 5 other companies sharing the other 5% of the market.

Based on lots of professional shooting with time critical shoots and professional athletes the GO pro HDs have been rock solid for me - i do have a second unit sitting there in case the first does fog - it rarely happens to me - but you have to be sure if you are on a paid gig.

i hope this helps to paint a BALANCED picture of Go Pros in and outs / pros and cons.






Downwinder said...

Thanks for the information everyone
I'm in very interesting talks with the CEO Chris Manager, GoPro Support
cut a long story short, GoPro know the HD HERO 2 is a s##t camera but went into production anyway? the heat from the camera does not mix with well water there is nothing you can possible do to stop the fogging the Anti fog inserts are just a con sell and yes the HD HERO 2 fogs up too three time faster than the original Hero. Why waist your time switching the HD HERO 2 off and on every five minutes just to stop it from fogging. Don't get sucked into buying the HD HERO 2 like I did to film your water sport.


hilly
hilly
WA
8120 posts
WA, 8120 posts
22 Jul 2012 12:57pm
Reflex Films said...

personally i will be very happy if i never watch another 10 min downwinder paddling clip for the rest of my life -


Amen to that Matt.

Very well put response as usual calling on a mountain of experience. I have enjoyed your camera work regularly. Any new stuff in the pipeline or is all over at the exposure room now after the kite v windsurfer vid thread
rambooc1
rambooc1
QLD
326 posts
QLD, 326 posts
22 Jul 2012 5:40pm
The GoPro fogging some people experience is NOT a "GoPro Malfunction" like the heading of the thread suggests, it's a user handling/preparation malfunction.

The fogging is caused by a simple scientific fact known as dew point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dew_point. The GLASS dome lens is the first thing to fog because it is a better heat/cold conductor than the acrylic case material. As a professional user of Gopro products for the last 6 years and also founder of the largest (46,000+ members) GoPro User Forum on the net goprouser.freeforums.org, i have seen just about every issue people have had with these cameras and the solutions.

Earlier this year we conducted scientific tests with a Professional Diver Photographer and also a Physics Professor (both members) involving humidifier cribs, pressure vessels and scientific measuring devices on the causes of fogging in Gopro waterproof cases. This involved systematically testing at what levels external air/water temp, internal air and camera moisture content caused fogging. We even went to the extremes of heating the internal air in the case to high levels and dunking the case in ice water. With next to zero moisture content inside the case with heated air there was no fogging within 4 hours (test was terminated) when immersed in ice water.

However, anytime the dew point could be crossed with the introduction of tiny water drops or humid air in the case, fogging would occur very quickly on the internal center of the dome glass lens.

So if GoPro housing internal air space is say 100cc , for us in the tropics it will contain 30cc water vapor divided by 1000 = 0.03 cc per 1 liter of air space and divided by 10 ( 100cc ), in 30C ambient and 80% humidity. At sea on the boat, it is close to 100% humidity and the hotter the air is, it can carry/contain more water vapor.

That is approx 0.6 drops of water per 1 liter of air space in typical 30C and 80% humidity.
So 0.06 drops of water alone will fog the lens....crazy hey. ? I don't take much.

Here are the results of "FIXES" that were tested to work and NOT work when introduced into the case interior.

1. Antifog solutions (Cat crap, RainX etc) > Don't bother, works on mirrors and goggles not inside sealed cases.

2. Desiccant balls, Silica Gel, Gopro antifog Strips, Shammy strips, etc. > All Work if they are dried in an open oven for 10mins and stored dry in a sealed container after treatment, and placed in the GoPro case when required, but work best when combined with number 3 below.

3. Introducing dry aircon or SUBA TANK air (Home or Car) blast from a vent into the case for 2mins (INCLUDING the camera) and assembling/closing the case while still over the vent. Store in cool place and DON'T reopen till finished filming. Best combined with No 2 above.

4. Aluminum Tin foil folded and placed at the bottom of the case. As Aluminum is a better heat conductor than glass ANY air moisture will form on the foil first rather than the glass lens. Not an ideal solution as water can run into the camera if upended. But is a good solution if combined with No2 above if no aircon is available.

5. Make and use a Humidity box if aircon is not available (see video) You can also use a simple seal-able plastic bag with a quantity of desiccant or dry rice insert camera and case, squeeze out the excess air, seal, leave overnite and assemble and close the Gopro case while still sealed inside the bag.




TIPS >
A. Completely dry the white seal and inside the case after use, a hair dryer and kitchen paper can help here.

B. Make sure you don't have sweaty fingers when placing the GoPro into the case, one drop will ruin your other efforts at fog reduction.

C. When storing your GoPro and case leave the door ajar and place both in a sandwich bag with a handful of dry white rice. (Moisture can hide inside the camera itself the rice will draw it out)

MY PERSONAL METHOD > Cut shammy strips to fit the gaps on all four sides between the camera and the case and use the aircon method mentioned in 2 above or use my humidity box/bag. I have NEVER experienced fogging with this method with Hero1 or Hero2 (i don't use any bacpac device)

Sample of how some of the tests were done




nikmcc
nikmcc
NSW
260 posts
NSW, 260 posts
22 Jul 2012 7:52pm
Downwinder said...

Thanks for the information everyone
I'm in very interesting talks with the CEO Chris Manager, GoPro Support
cut a long story short, GoPro know the HD HERO 2 is a s##t camera but went into production anyway? the heat from the camera does not mix with well water there is nothing you can possible do to stop the fogging the Anti fog inserts are just a con sell and yes the HD HERO 2 fogs up too three time faster than the original Hero. Why waist your time switching the HD HERO 2 off and on every five minutes just to stop it from fogging. Don't get sucked into buying the HD HERO 2 like I did to film your water sport.


I've got nothing but love for my gopro hd2. Mountain biking, surfing never had any issues.

Simondo
Simondo
VIC
8025 posts
VIC, 8025 posts
22 Jul 2012 8:28pm
I don't have a GoPro, but my opinion is that they take a reasonable photo and video, but like what has been said above, it is really only good quality Amateur footage. Too much bounce / sea sickness...

If I was in the market, I would be looking at the Contour product. Already waterproof to 1m, in a slimmer barrel format. Much neater than GoPro, in my opinion. I'm not sure on it's quality and durability, etc.

Also, there are some other rivals coming out with anti-shake / anti-vibration technology (or software?) for their micro waterproof cameras.

This will leave the current GoPro's looking like 1970's equipment in no time.

I think GoPro are like Nokia in early 2000's... Great product, market leader, but there are a bunch of other guys ready to take the lead. Or maybe GoPro is working on new and better products.

www.contour.com
(the slim tube housing of the Contour looks heaps sexier than the Boxy GoPro housing! - if DJ had a Contour Camera, he would fending the ladies off with his carbon paddle... )
Downwinder
Downwinder
QLD
2095 posts
QLD, 2095 posts
23 Jul 2012 5:25am
nikmcc said...

Downwinder said...

Thanks for the information everyone
I'm in very interesting talks with the CEO Chris Manager, GoPro Support
cut a long story short, GoPro know the HD HERO 2 is a s##t camera but went into production anyway? the heat from the camera does not mix with well water there is nothing you can possible do to stop the fogging the Anti fog inserts are just a con sell and yes the HD HERO 2 fogs up too three time faster than the original Hero. Why waist your time switching the HD HERO 2 off and on every five minutes just to stop it from fogging. Don't get sucked into buying the HD HERO 2 like I did to film your water sport.


I've got nothing but love for my gopro hd2. Mountain biking, surfing never had any issues.



Yep the GoPro is great for Mountain Biking no problems there. But for surfing different story in a nut shell s##t camera.

Downwinder
Downwinder
QLD
2095 posts
QLD, 2095 posts
23 Jul 2012 5:28am
Simondo said...

I don't have a GoPro, but my opinion is that they take a reasonable photo and video, but like what has been said above, it is really only good quality Amateur footage. Too much bounce / sea sickness...

If I was in the market, I would be looking at the Contour product. Already waterproof to 1m, in a slimmer barrel format. Much neater than GoPro, in my opinion. I'm not sure on it's quality and durability, etc.

Also, there are some other rivals coming out with anti-shake / anti-vibration technology (or software?) for their micro waterproof cameras.

This will leave the current GoPro's looking like 1970's equipment in no time.

I think GoPro are like Nokia in early 2000's... Great product, market leader, but there are a bunch of other guys ready to take the lead. Or maybe GoPro is working on new and better products.

www.contour.com
(the slim tube housing of the Contour looks heaps sexier than the Boxy GoPro housing! - if DJ had a Contour Camera, he would fending the ladies off with his carbon paddle... )

Yep I'll be having a look at the Contour camera, Cameron from Vico used his yesterday so I'm going to check it out. Plus Kai Lenny always uses the Contour Camera I'll have a good chat to him after the Naish Race.

Downwinder
Downwinder
QLD
2095 posts
QLD, 2095 posts
23 Jul 2012 5:48am
I'll be sending the 2 HD HERO 2 cameras back to the Manager Chris from GoPro with all the accessories for a full refund. End of Story.

To Reflex films and Ramboc1 it all should not be so hard to use a camera with a water housing. I have an Evinro HD movie camera with water housing all I do is put cheap $2:00 cut up female meds in the housing and it works a dream with no fogging and no Bulls##t. The HD HERO 2's are just a s##t camera. I doesn't matter if any camera, wether it be small or huge it's the 21 century and it all should not be so ridiculously frustratingly hard.
See Ya's in Da Ocean DW
nikmcc
nikmcc
NSW
260 posts
NSW, 260 posts
23 Jul 2012 1:16pm
Downwinder said...

nikmcc said...

Downwinder said...

Thanks for the information everyone
I'm in very interesting talks with the CEO Chris Manager, GoPro Support
cut a long story short, GoPro know the HD HERO 2 is a s##t camera but went into production anyway? the heat from the camera does not mix with well water there is nothing you can possible do to stop the fogging the Anti fog inserts are just a con sell and yes the HD HERO 2 fogs up too three time faster than the original Hero. Why waist your time switching the HD HERO 2 off and on every five minutes just to stop it from fogging. Don't get sucked into buying the HD HERO 2 like I did to film your water sport.


I've got nothing but love for my gopro hd2. Mountain biking, surfing never had any issues.



Yep the GoPro is great for Mountain Biking no problems there. But for surfing different story in a nut shell s##t camera.




Its a shame you feel that way. Its you who is missing out here, not gopro...

Check out my youtube channel, pretty sure its proof gopro works fine. www.youtube.com/giantglory81 (only the last few vids uploaded are with the hd2, the vid that plays when my page opens is done on the old sd gopro)
rambooc1
rambooc1
QLD
326 posts
QLD, 326 posts
24 Jul 2012 10:33am
Downwinder, you asked for advice and opinions in your first post, that's what i responded to. The info applies to all cameras used in those conditions, not just Gopro.

The info i posted was to substantiate my claims, not to confuse anyone or make it look difficult. What's so hard about placing inserts into your camera case and spending 2mins in front of an aircon to guarantee your footage will be trouble free in tropical locations when used for extended periods? Give it try, you might be surprised how easy it is to fix your issue. BTW, tell your mate the CEO Manager Chris @GoPro Support to do the same, maybe he will then stop telling his customers his companies cameras are s**t and give them some real advice..lol

Enjoy Maui.
airSUP
airSUP
40 posts
40 posts
25 Jul 2012 9:16am
well, the contour gets foggy too, at least with the gopro it's VERY easy to drop in some silica beads before hitting the beach (only 100% effective solution I've found, because my SUP carrying vehicle is a bike, so no aircon!)

I think the gopro has less cmos jelly effect too.

personally I'll keep with gopro , but I'm still waiting for a HD cam the size of a chapstick that has no cmos jelly effect. (shouldn't be too far off, gopro dudes - are you listening?)
CMC
CMC
QLD
3954 posts
CMC CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
25 Jul 2012 11:32am
I thought this one looked pretty interesting. Not sure if released yet but I am sure the Gopro crowd are more than worried.

www.iontheaction.com.au/

HD
4 hour battery
10m waterproof no housing
automatic upload to cloud with 8gb storage.
no cables required. Wifi.
goatman
goatman
NSW
2151 posts
NSW, 2151 posts
25 Jul 2012 11:36am
Yeah, I got frustrated at first with the fogging but as everyone is saying just shove it in front of a car aircon with the case open for a few minutes and use the inserts and should be fine. The HD is amazing quality, I have been getting some stuff of my young bloke with it when we go down the coast.
airSUP
airSUP
40 posts
40 posts
25 Jul 2012 5:30pm
CMC said...

I thought this one looked pretty interesting. Not sure if released yet but I am sure the Gopro crowd are more than worried.

www.iontheaction.com.au/



I saw an early model at a trade show a few months ago, they are heading in the right direction :)

teatrea
teatrea
QLD
4177 posts
QLD, 4177 posts
25 Jul 2012 8:06pm
The only good go-pro footage is capturing tube rides.
rambooc1
rambooc1
QLD
326 posts
QLD, 326 posts
25 Jul 2012 9:35pm
GoPro have more to fear from Sony and JVC who both just last week released prototype wearable Sports Cams. Only issue, neither understand the market yet. Sony's hardware looks good - Sony's hallmark SteadyShot? image stabilization technology, Exmor? R CMOS image sensor, and an ultra-wide angle Carl Zeiss? Tessar? lens.


GoPros ProTune Technology will place it far above all else for a while, supposed to be released next few months. Then there is the GoPro HD3 which i've seen some evidence of a protype being tested.

www.sony.com/content/sony/en/en_us/SCA/company-news/press-releases.sony-electronics.2019.html

newsroom.jvc.com/2012/06/new-jvc-adixxion-camcorder-ready-for-action/






Downwinder
Downwinder
QLD
2095 posts
QLD, 2095 posts
26 Jul 2012 7:37am
rambooc1 said...

GoPro have more to fear from Sony and JVC who both just last week released prototype wearable Sports Cams. Only issue, neither understand the market yet. Sony's hardware looks good - Sony's hallmark SteadyShot? image stabilization technology, Exmor? R CMOS image sensor, and an ultra-wide angle Carl Zeiss? Tessar? lens.


GoPros ProTune Technology will place it far above all else for a while, supposed to be released next few months. Then there is the GoPro HD3 which i've seen some evidence of a protype being tested.

www.sony.com/content/sony/en/en_us/SCA/company-news/press-releases.sony-electronics.2019.html

newsroom.jvc.com/2012/06/new-jvc-adixxion-camcorder-ready-for-action/









Thanks for all the information rambooc1 you're a genius. I'm seriously looking at the Contour camera as you don't need a water housing and the video footage is super clear. I've posted the GoPro HERO 2 back with all the accessories s##t that comes with it for the full refund the camera ever stuffed up the 32GB SD card.

The Maliko run was ALL TIME yesterday 25-30 knots of East Winds with an East Swell did 2 runs and it's looking the same today for another 2 runs stoked.

DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
26 Jul 2012 9:55am
I've done over 100 vids with GoPro and only had slight fogling once or twice.. To blame the camera is like blaming a tire if you get a flat... IMO.

DJ
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