The Pacific Paddle Games has announced board categories and it seems they have decided it will be 14' for men and 12'6" for women. This includes the distance race as well as the BoP race on the original Battle of the Paddle course at Dana Point. I imagine the women won't be happy to be on slower boards. Nevertheless, the decision for the men does seem like a first nail in the coffin of 12'6" as a board length and race category.

www.mensjournal.com/

Lets hope its not the first nail otherwise it could also be the the start of the death of our elite side of the sport!!
The sport is alreay starting to get out of the reach of new talent coming through and to be honest this looks like a move that could make it even harder. Everone is always talking about how the younger generation is the future of the sport yet if we keep going like this then how are they ever going to afford to get a chance at showing what they have got? IMO 14ft for elite side of the sport in most part is stupid and will hinder the growth.

I understand most people love 14ft boards and yes they are faster and yes they can be used in the surf kind of and for 90% of people who just do these events for fun and are the back bone of the sport 14 is perfect and i dont disagree that 14 would be the biggest open class at any event but for the elite side of the sport it could be a bad move. Where i see the problem for this is the difference these days between a ocean 14 and a flatwater 14 is huge so unless you are going to own 3 14ft boards you can forget about thinking you are going to give someone like Danny ching a run for the money where as the difference between 12'6 boards are much closer so in theroy you could have 1 good alround board that is competitive in 90% of conditions given new up and coming talent way more of a chance.
it was funny after doing the Euro tour and having all the races on 14ft boards 99% of the riders and most of the events said they would have preferred to have done it all on 12'6.

IMO the sport just has to choose one or the other and it also has to be the same for the girls as having them on different boards is just as stupid plus most of the girls are starting to give the guys a run there money these days and even if they dont race official with the guys its still good to see how close they really are in times but having them on a different size board blows that out the window.

The sport needs a direction so i have proposed that the elite side of the sport should be 100% 12'6 that is any race that has money on it is the elite class, the event can still have all the other classes and everyone can still race what they own or think is fastest but if you want the money then 12'6 is what you need. Will this work? Well it should if people put egos and own agendas aside and see what could be best for growth in our sport its not something that would change overnight but if we gave it a direction now then who knows in 2 or 3 years we could end up with a unified elite division. Of course some races will always be out side this such as most of the long Hawaiian races and as these will never change.

I'm also sure the sport could just go 14 and there is that chance and at the end of the day for me i just want the sport to pick either and push ahead with a one lenght only elite class and put a end to what i see is the easiest problem to solve in our sport that really only effects a small percentage of racers but seems to always take way to much attention away from the events

Anyway they are just my thoughts that I'm sure aome will agree abd some will not but if you have a better plan i would love to hear it as i want the sport to keep growing.

No thanks, I perfer 126 anyday. Whether it be Long flatwater, dw, course races. Ask any female overseas racing and they will tell u 126 all the way. We dont care what the guys do really haha.
All the girls that did the euro tour this year on 14ft will tell u it was terrible, especially for low numbers. Yet look back to 2014 when most of the euro races were on 126 for girls and the numbers speak for themselves.
So imo I will stick to racing 126 please :)
X angie

From an industry point of view in a small market it is more efficient to have one board class. In South Africa we only have 14's and we have not had many complaints. Initially we've had more men take up racing/touring on longer boards (race participation is 10-20% ladies). Most (not all) ladies that get into racing/touring here do so after borrowing a board from their partner. If the partner show interest the couple usually get a new board where the older board becomes the starter board for the lady (or the guy) This works well when you have only one board class as couples are keen to get a second board (because now it also involves an upgrade) and there is little worry about resale value because the board can be sold to anyone as opposed to a 12'6 which is limited to ladies only (10-20% of the market......)

I would agree that the 12'6 is becoming more and more obsolete - it never made much sense in the first place.

I'd be interested to hear if Angies point of view is broadly shared by ladies (in SA ladies are quite happy to be on 14's) and what it actually is about the 12'6 that they like? Maybe I'm missing something?

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PeterP said...
From an industry point of view in a small market it is more efficient to have one board class. In South Africa we only have 14's and we have not had many complaints. Initially we've had more men take up racing/touring on longer boards (race participation is 10-20% ladies). Most (not all) ladies that get into racing/touring here do so after borrowing a board from their partner. If the partner show interest the couple usually get a new board where the older board becomes the starter board for the lady (or the guy) This works well when you have only one board class as couples are keen to get a second board (because now it also involves an upgrade) and there is little worry about resale value because the board can be sold to anyone as opposed to a 12'6 which is limited to ladies only (10-20% of the market......)

I would agree that the 12'6 is becoming more and more obsolete - it never made much sense in the first place.

I'd be interested to hear if Angies point of view is broadly shared by ladies (in SA ladies are quite happy to be on 14's) and what it actually is about the 12'6 that they like? Maybe I'm missing something?

See this is a bit of the problem, every one only looks at there local area instead of looking at it as a whole picture. We are the same in Australia where in some areas 12'6 is bigger and others 14 is the board of choice this is something i dont want to change all i suggest is if your area has a big event then just make it one board size for everyone at the elite level and leave the rest as it is.
Whats killing us at the moment is exactly what peter is saying in say that in his area 14 is bigger so why change instead of saying whats going to benefit the future growth of the sport not only in SA but the whole world. Kind of like asking for world peace on a smaller scale i guess which just could be a pipe dream.

Its also hard because alot of the top riders dont really care and will just race what ever class the money is on but what im tryingto do is make sure the money not only stays but grows and this will need some love and peace.lol

Women in the UK generally have the choice of racing either 14 or 12-6. But the vast majority choose 12-6. I don't know why this is (it seems barmy to me) and I can't see any reason why men and women shouldn't be given the same opportunities, but given that they are, we can't assume that they would make the same choices. Equality of choice does not necessarily lead to similarity in behaviour. Women do not, by and large, choose to drive the same cars as men, so why would we assume that they would choose to paddle the same boards?

Mixed on this one. I reckon training on 12.6 is the best.

On general public scale probably a good thing to go 14

Most of us arent good enough to really get a 12.6 going for it to feel good when you know a 14 is better suited
For the elite one 12.6 for all and transport is the easiest

But those races have to reflect the general paddling population board market

Better still lets just have 17's. No seriously they should be looking at getting rid of 12'6 and 14 and maybe go 13. Too little size difference between the boards. Make one size and grow the sport from there imo.

Japan Cup in Sept is all racing on 12'6 which has a BOP &18klm race makes it easier with one board for all events..

Too many vested interests, no strong, credible governing body. I'm getting that deja-vu feeling all over again.

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HumanCartoon said...
Too many vested interests, no strong, credible governing body. I'm getting that deja-vu feeling all over again.

I thought jacko was the aussie governing body

Level the playing field for us fat unco-ordinated bastards.....1 length for all....1 width for all.......and anyone below a certain weight class must wear a knap sack with lead weights to make up the difference

That sounds good to me Supatrooper.

I am only a slow old amatuer so what the elite do doesn't really concern me but it is a tricky one, most of our racing in WA is true downwinders so 14's rule ATM and unlimited will probably grow.

It's pretty obvious the heavyweights (like me ) 90kg+ would be happy with 14's the lightweights & women would prefer 12'6.

My regular paddle partner weighs approx half as much as me and we usually paddle on 12'6's during these winter training paddles but if I'm feeling slack I prefer to use the 14's.

As soon as the downwind season kicks in it's 14 every time.

Using SUPracer's Top 14 Most Competitive Races of 2014 as a guide - www.supracer.com/top-14-most-competitive-races-of-2014/ - if we exclude the events that have fallen over this year (BoP, Ultimate SUP Showdown, a number of World Series events) and we assume PPG will become the new number one most competitive race...

Taking all that into account, the 10 most competitive races of 2015 may well end up being:

Pacific Paddle Games Elite Race - 14'
Pacific Paddle Games Distance Race - 14'
Columbia Gorge Paddle Challenge Course Race - 14'
Columbia Gorge Paddle Challenge Downwind Race - 14'
Carolina Cup - 14'
World Series Finals Turtle Bay - 12'6"
The Lost Mills Distance Race - 14'
The Lost Mills Sprint Race - 14'
Molokai 2 Oahu - Unlimited
Maui 2 Molokai - Unlimited

Now, I may be wrong*, but as far as the men are concerned, that's 7 races on 14', 2 races on Unlimited, and just the world series final event on 12'6".









* I just took the board lengths from SUPracer's 2014 information - events may have changed in 2015.

No doubt about ptwoody.

You are selectively good

ISA Worlds is also on 12'6 - but at least there they have both men and women on 12'6 and they have the races separately. Having races separate to each other not only allows more exposure for the women but it also allows for swopping/lending of boards in case of breakage or no show (as was the case for entire SA Team).

I think one of the original reasons for advocating 12'6 was transport - didn't help SA ISA Worlds Team much, their boards made it as far as Johannesburg (destination Mexico).

Elite racers would be better off (men and women) if they could travel to a place and have boards readily available or at worst share between men and women. For the select few who are on latest prototypes they will make a plan either way.

I feel that the downside mentioned by Jacko (more 14' condition specific boards supposedly required - although Naish only had one board for 2015 and did reasonably well)) is outweighed by the above.

I guess the reason you don't need more than one 12'6 is because they are so slow from the outset that no amount of design tinkling will give you much of an advantage.....

I'm not an elite racer and I haven't been on 12'6s much - the only one I have ever enjoyed is the Naish ONE, not because it's a race weapon but because it is light and easy to carry around and ride....all the others just feel like I'm dragging weed on my 14'....

I don't think we will ever see one length be dropped unless both lengths are dropped and the world decided to go with in between 13 foot. But that's unlikely.. Would still have 13 foot and unlimited so still minimum two classes.

It's not a sport that's going to suit one length.
True surf bop or tight tech courses with many buoy turns in ocean/surf races a shorter board is better suited.
DW 12'6 14' unlimited all suit. Depending on the persons weight/build/area they paddle conditions.
Flat water 14 would suit mainly best.

Elite level do need to do something across the board. Set a standard stick to it. It doesn't matter what the everyday punters do as they will always have choice and make the choice about their needs in the local conditions they paddle and race in..

Makes sense if elite is 12"6 for majority of races for many many reasons I think.

Also for the future: kids/teenagers they are light weights and smaller so 12"6 there is big enough to learn and develop on and become competitive with the elite in the later teen ages..

If women have to go 14 foot does it become a volume issue? Most women especially elite paddlers are sub 70/60kg I imgaine a 12"6 would feel more responsive under their feet than a longer board.
So then if women had to go 14 then brands are still going to be making multiple volume models of the same board for light women and heavier men Doesn't really help the issue does it?

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laceys lane said...

HumanCartoon said...
Too many vested interests, no strong, credible governing body. I'm getting that deja-vu feeling all over again.

I thought jacko was the aussie governing body

As much as we are having fun with it. He probably bloody should be . He is 110% into this sport he lives and breathes it more than anyone else in this country. It is his lively hood, income, and passion and is in touch with the elite world of the sport and manufactures.

Yellow card AndyR.....there can be NO love for Jacko on Seabreeze forums.

Last warning

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husq2100 said...
Yellow card AndyR.....there can be NO love for Jacko on Seabreeze forums.

Last warning

Hahaha as the red thumbs show on my post..
I assume they are all the people involved in the sport behind the scenes that don't like the truth or are afraid they are out of a role

2 cents worth.
I have 12'6, 14 and 17 SIC boards.
The 14 gets neglected - the 17'4 does everything better than the 14 when it's big, 12'6" more of a I'm part of the board thing, more fun turning / surfing.
Find I select 12'6 or 17 - they are that far apart that it's one or the other. The 14 does neither better than either.
Never going to race, purely based on enjoyment of paddling.
17'6 flatwater board adds new choice, because it does nothing either of the other boards do, but does what it does better.

Only a month ago I put an expression of interest out to a large number of stakeholders around Oz asking for their input into next years Noosa BOP event.. A large majority said it needs a 14 foot board distance race and about 4 people said the BOP race needs to have 14 foot boards in the pro division.
One highly regarded paddler even said I should drop 12'6 boards altogether and make the event only 14 foot boards.
In my opinion I would love to have just one board, but a BOP race in the surf, smashing around the 4.2k Kawana Lake time trial or doing a 18k down winder is just so different. I couldn't imagine one board doing all that very well and keeping a level playing field with the guy that had a specialised board, Maybe the only way would be a 4 meter ONE design class?
Anyway regarding the Noosa event, I haven't made my mind up regarding board sizes and will be watching this space closely.
Cheers Jonesy

www.supracer.com/the-death-and-rebirth-of-sup-racing/

Jim Terrell suggested getting rid of both sizes and going with 4 metres a little while back.
Obviously a whole new size has its problems, but worth a read anyway

they will want BOP on unlimited next 14 not the go 12/6 is the go leave how it is

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stimo said..
they will want BOP on unlimited next 14 not the go 12/6 is the go leave how it is

That's the problem - "how it is" is that BOP is now 14'. PPG is BOP. It's 14'.

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PTWoody said...

stimo said..
they will want BOP on unlimited next 14 not the go 12/6 is the go leave how it is

That's the problem - "how it is" is that BOP is now 14'. PPG is BOP. It's 14'.

Well, not quite. If you are the proud owner of a vagina, you will be forced to use a 12-6. If you own a penis, you could use a 12-6 if you wanted to.

With all due respect to Jacko (I feel he gets a hard time on SB unnecessarily so and his international experience is good to listen to). The 12'6 vs 14' debate has been around for awhile - many of the SUP "greats" such as Dave Kalama and Jim Terrell (as pointed out earlier) have said the 12'6 board would eventually become irrelevant. Not long ago Jacko questioned whether the 10' surfing class was the right dimension, so as to ensure we didn't have to change it down the track - inferring that a similar thing has happened with race boards.

We are at this point now and in Australian I feel we are in front with this. AuSUP recommended that the 14' is the National flatwater board at the Australian Flatwater Titles and the marathon board division is 14'. Australia was one of the first countries to define this 2 years ago - it looks like the world is starting to follow suit.

How was this decision reached?

As most know, AuSUP is the representative National Board for SUP in Australia. It is made up of State representatives from QLD, NSW, Victoria, Tasmania, South Australia and WA. Two years ago a review was conducted on popular board lengths - taken from local events. Only recently this was reviewed again. The significant majority of racing was done on 14' boards. This was verbal review of event classes at State events across Australia.

Citing WA for example. SUPWA runs 7 events over the season - SUP5000, CB5500, Bridge the Bank, King of the Cut, Fig2Fig, Black Blade and Flatwater20. The king of the Cut, Flatwater20 and Black Blade are regarded as State Champs or high end racing (~ 140 entrants in total). Every year the 12'6 class has been available in these 3 events and every year we have only seen 2-3 12'6 board enter, we have never satisfied a full division in this class (4 or more boards). Last season we decided to drop this class from our racing (the 3 state events - still in our participation events). No agenda or conspiracy, the board class simply was not popular (even with female racers). It also was a pain as an event organiser to chase down sponsorship for a board class, only to find it wasn't filled - not good for the sponsor.

This was the same feedback from all the other states around Australia except for Queensland. Having paddled at Currumbin, 12'6 makes sense - it is a fantastic break at the river mouth and plenty of options that suit that particular board length. The decision was reached to have 14' as the primary board class on the feedback from the masses Nationally - not an isolated group. (I have utmost respect for the Currumbin paddlers, given they make up the majority of the international paddlers - their training methods and ideas obviously work well!)

As far as having one board class.....we already have it, as Jacko summaries in his above post:

"I'm also sure the sport could just go 14 and there is that chance and at the end of the day for me i just want the sport to pick either and push ahead with a one lenght only elite class and put a end to what i see is the easiest problem to solve in our sport that really only effects a small percentage of racers but seems to always take way to much attention away from the events"

This is the case for Australia now, a decision needed to be made (and it was 2 years ago). For racing there is no 12'6 class (except only for BOP/Tech Racing) at National events endorsed by Surfing Australia and AuSUP.

There is a process involved with this. If you feel the 14' division is wrong for Australia in Elite racing speak to your AuSUP Sate rep and they will present this at the AuSUP Board meeting or E-meeting. It is always about trying to get the best outcome for the majority of the membership.

NB - interesting to see what will happen in Tech racing and how the PPG work on 14'