So before I embarrass myself at my local sup shop does anyone know what the team discounts would be ? I have heard one rider say it's 30% which would make the Maliko an attractive $2800 or there abouts cheers

just want to add what a great idea of shipping new boards out the door by Naish

Some important information about the Naish Domestic SUP Racer Program.

The Naish Domestic SUP Racer Program is a Northern Hemisphere program that is not replicated here in Australia. Australia has an exceptionally strong racing structure and following supported by highly skilled and reputable dealers nationwide that are on hand to sell, service and explain all Naish gear including our Racing/Elite line up.

Naish Australia will be continuing to service the Australian SUP racing market through our existing strong dealer network. Please contact your local Naish Dealer for all sales, service and information on Naish equipment.

Thank you for choosing Naish.

Ride safe,

JB

Its wholesale - 33.33% plus gst and import duty

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Windgenuity said..
Some important information about the Naish Domestic SUP Racer Program.

The Naish Domestic SUP Racer Program is a Northern Hemisphere program that is not replicated here in Australia. Australia has an exceptionally strong racing structure and following supported by highly skilled and reputable dealers nationwide that are on hand to sell, service and explain all Naish gear including our Racing/Elite line up.

Naish Australia will be continuing to service the Australian SUP racing market through our existing strong dealer network. Please contact your local Naish Dealer for all sales, service and information on Naish equipment.

Thank you for choosing Naish.

Ride safe,

JB

In other words - "Suck my Penetrator, Australians."

I contacted Naish international and they said it is world wide.

Come on Naish ,It only seems fair! Need a better explaination than that. Better than having boards sit in racks,
Should try it with your shorter surf range of boards,it would be a good opportunity to get more of your product out on the water. The market is very competitive. Why Not??

So the international guys say it is also in Australia, what's the go team Naish ?

Just in case it was not clear before,

"Some important information about the Naish Domestic SUP Racer Program. The Naish Domestic SUP Racer Program is a Northern Hemisphere program that is not replicated here in Australia. Australia has an exceptionally strong racing structure and following supported by highly skilled and reputable dealers nationwide that are on hand to sell, service and explain all Naish gear including our Racing/Elite line up. Naish Australia will be continuing to service the Australian SUP racing market through our existing strong dealer network. Please contact your local Naish Dealer for all sales, service and information on Naish equipment. Thank you for choosing Naish. Ride safe, JB"

We value and support our dealer network, and believe their sustainability and strength is vital to the continual growth and success of our sport.

Ride safe,

JB

So i think I have it clear now , because you have a strong market in Australia we can go suck a lemon right ?

Clear enough ?

I'm not surprised that Naish would want to do this - in most European markets they are getting their asses kicked by other brands. The recent successes of the Naish elite paddlers might help a bit, but there is a chicken-and-egg thing going on I think that Naish has probably correctly identified, and that this might solve. When I enquired about buying a Maliko it was made clear to me by our hard-working national distributor (and no, I'm not being sarcastic here -he is very good) that stock was very limited and I might have to wait several months for delivery. But why should I do that when other brands' boards are available for sale now? My local Naish retailer sells so few Naish race sups that they don't even bother to update their website with the latest offerings.

Part of the problem I think has simply been the product. After Iggy's death I'm not sure that the Javelin got faster. And the product line was often confusing to customers. Plus some of the distance boards were crazy heavy, and there were a few construction and supply blips from the Cobra factory. This has meant that distributors are understandably conservative in their ordering policy I suspect. They don't want to get stuck with stock they can't shift. But now Naish have a flat water/all-waters design setup that is easier to understand, and mirrors that from the other windsurf brands, and people can see the top racers succeed on their boards (e.g. dominant performances at the ISA Worlds on Malikos), it might be the right time to try to kick start the market by getting influential local paddlers on the boards. I'd certainly be tempted by this, and it might even make me willing to wait a few months for delivery. Sadly, I'm probably too old to be eligible (I once got told by Surftech - having just easily won a race and beaten a whole load of guys half my age - that I could be part of their "beach ambassador" program but was too old to be a team rider). But I can understand this I guess: pictures of old farts like me isn't exactly an aspirational image for a brand. But of course it's only old farts like me who can afford these boards in some countries: our national team at the ISA worlds contained I think two people in their 40s and one who was 50. I'm not sure anyone was under 30. Anyway, what I'm saying is that I suspect that Naish has very specific issues with certain markets and that this might be a good way for them to address them. Whether it will work however if distributors start undercutting retailers is another matter. But I guess they have thought this through and looked into it. As far as I'm concerned, anything that improves supply and competition in our local market has got to be a good thing. Buying a race sup these days seems to involve a total mission of investigation and ordering that can swallow up many hours of research and enquiries. This is not just true of Naish, but virtually all brands. I don't think you guys in Australia know how lucky you are to have such a strong domestic market. Good luck to Naish with this initiative. I sure wish they'd bung a 14x26 Maliko my way...

And on that note, has anyone ridden a 2017 Maliko and a Fanatic Falcon and can tell me how they compare across a variety of conditions? Why would someone buy a Maliko rather than a Falcon (or an All Star or a Sidewinder)?

Interesting insight, Area10.

Here in France, I see also the big windsurfing brands performing the same suicide as they did in the Windsurfing market: the combination of expensive boards + heavy marketing push to change boards each year by insisting the next year model is so much better than the old one means the shop & distributor heavily discount last year boards. Thus consumers wait for the discounts, and paying the full price is seen as being robbed. The death spiral is that then new board sales drop, and brands feel they must raise the prices to cover the costs, that are huge with all this line change each year....

And as you say, the distributor is very weary of overstocking, that can kill him fast with the huge end of year discounts.

Hop they find a way to break this vicious circle...

I suspect that one long term solution will be local shapers selling direct. I can buy a locally-made custom cheaper than a production board. And indeed, I have done that. So now, for far less than a standard poorly-made Thailand board I have a much better constructed one that actually performs far better in our conditions than the leading brands' competition. It's nuts really. But it's nice to be employing local folk, and you actually have to wait less time than if you buy a big brand board! Sooner or later everyone will wise up to the fact that they are being ripped off, and then the big brands are gonna have a mess of trouble on their hands. I think that the transport costs, exchange rates, advertising costs, and the number of middlemen between manufacture and end-user have made boards unrealistically expensive. One solution is to sell direct - like Gong are doing. The other is for local shapers to do their thing. If a local shaper can make a board for £1000 in materials (which is about what it will cost on average) and sell it at £2k (still much less than most big brand carbon boards) then he only has to make/sell one a week and he can support himself quite comfortably. He won't be rich that way, but it would support a lifestyle.

Krist,

(My personal opinion and rant - not Naish or Naish Aust.)
Having a good market in Australia is a great thing, but bypassing the dealers is not. It is (in 99% or cases) the dealers that are promoting racing, running training groups, supporting races and events and also the ones that are there to demo boards to you, teach you about the boards and so on. Some countries do not have this, we are very lucky to have such dedicated and talented dealers that are in majority of the time some of the best paddlers in the country themselves. There is however an ego in most paddlers that feel they should always get a deal regardless of what they bring back into the sport, stripping hundreds of dollars off high value gear because they shop around and screw the local guy who has poured so much time and energy into them in the early stages. Unfortunately the on going effect is not so good. Yes there is lots of cheap brands around now, and they are all cashing in on the hard work of the major pillars, however how much are they giving back to the sport? As a lot of them go direct, the dealers are not getting any cut for their hard work along the way and as a result, like windsurfing many will disappear over time, meaning less events, less training, less races and so on. What is the point of having a race board if there are no races? (exaggeration).

All this said, have you signed up for the program, and has your local dealer been in contact with you to discuss it?

Rant done, may delete once i've woken up more.

Ride safe, support your local,

JB

In the U.K. Distributors have been floging race boards direct to racers at significantly reduced rates for years , I think a lot can be put down to trying to hit sales numbers, the first case we had here was when a company over ordered and just had a bunch of stock to shif quick! no shops now keep any stock as they know racers will just go direct I would expect there is only a handfull of race boards perchased through a shop at full pric in the U.K. Every year, Not only does this hurt the shops through loss of sales but with the racers only paying near trade prices and then at the end of the year when they get pressured in to upgrading there is a flood of boards on the second hand market no one can shif and the prices drop to sometimes down to 30-40% of rrp after only 6-8mths killing the second hand market for every one else and devalues the product alround. It's a very bad move for the industry all round and are not doing anyone any favours.

Thankyou JB , as you can see I wasnt having a jag at Naish I liked the idea I just wanted to understand the reasons that's all . My local dealer is a great guy and super supportive of our club and sport maybe one of the best supporters dare I say in this country so Thankyou for your reply that's all I wanted cheers K .ps I love a good demo day it's like going to a theme park for me and I appreciate the travel and time away from family the guys who do these demos have to sacrifice and without these sacrifices I and many others wouldn't have a opportunity to test ride all these awesome boards cheers again K

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JB said...
What is the point of having a race board if there are no races?

For the joy of paddling. My friends and I have many race boards but we rarely race, and there are more of us than regularly race. Most racers seem to either leave the sport after a couple of seasons, or become "ex-racers" who just SUP for the inherent enjoyment of SUPing rather than competing. Moreover, most people who surf SUP don't compete. So I'm really not sure how much the brands have to "support" the sport. People will always find a way to get together to race - or just paddle - if they want to. I think this is mainly the sort of thing that the brands tell customers just as another marketing device.

interesting....

Yes, and these paddlers generally do not upgrade each year and are not really who this program is aimed at.

With all due respect, this is aim at the "Racing Market".

JB

Why does everyone want a 'deal'

Because $3000-$5000 is hard to cop when its a block of foam and a layer of glass or maybe carbon on top. For 5K you can buy a brand new (budget entry model) Seadoo - way more design and research has been spent on developing a jet ski including motor with piston rings, lubrication system, steering that works - than a block of foam shaped in Thailand thats dings easy.
Could also buy a scooter, second hand car, motobike or 3 iphone 7 for money..

Sadly I have traveled Australia the last month and seen the developing death of SUP racing in Australia. From little clicks that wont/dont paddle with each other, or acknowledge each other on the water, to a huge market of second hand boards that just not selling, to canceled events, to races where sup are just one class or an afterthought paddling in the same class as skis or racers that pro racing in community divisions, or being given the win yet came 4th, or paddled on their knees more than 4 times, (or what is even pro vs non pro? On flow? Get a discount? Sticker on your board?) to pro racers that have a pro attitude and wont talk, help, demo, show the little people, the consumers and board buyers their boards or how to imporve the consumers skills let alone even have a chat with them, to shops thats heavily discount stock to start a following, yet kill off themselves slowly overtime, to shops that wont stock race boards anymore or even worse the ones directly importing cheap Chinese JUNK that falls appart then provides no warranty support, to the store you have to take to court to get a refund on a faulty board,

Sadly our loved sport is dying.

Also forgot to mention the trolls on seabreeze that scare me off, or post bias reviews with a vested interest, or the events and companies that post messages like they are giving a military order not a sales pitch and support.

Sadly this is all contributing to a slow downward spiral in our sport - just look at kiting where eveyone undercuts each other, wants a deal, and now - NO LOCAL EVENTS NO MONEY OR SPONSORED TOURS etc..

Whats the solution? Maybe better pricing? Maybe more demonstration and explanations of what research and time is taken to make a new model every year, and how the costs turn a 100$ block of foam into a $5000 board in a Thia factor with significant differences to Australian health and safety standards/industrial relations or Maybe a better national community?






-if i think of other points I'll update the post. Also open to suggestions on how you are concerned/disagree.

Windgenuity- Yeah well I'm saying that perhaps brands aren't always understanding their (changing) market correctly. Racers who pay full retail for their boards aren't gonna upgrade every year either. So all you are doing is selling boards at little margin to people who will sell them on to (who would otherwise be) your real customer base after a few months. And so the cycle goes on - fed as supuk pointed out by distributors selling boards cheap. I don't know what the solution is. And I'm delighted that Naish are going to push some cheap boards into the market so that I can buy them used next year at about 30-40% of RRP. I've just bought a 14x23 Sidewinder off a top racer that is only about a year old and it cost me about 34% of RRP. The waiting list for a new board can be up to 6 months anyway! It just makes no sense to buy new, especially since the depreciation after a year or two slows to virtually zero. So the only people who are buying new are "team riders" and similar wannabes who are high on the ego of being "sponsored" and the thrill of paying a few percent less for their board than advertised. The rest of us are just moving used boards around amongst ourselves at very little cost -extremely cheap SUPing.

Maybe things are different in other parts of Europe. But I'm not sure that they are, substantially. The root cause of this is simply that the boards are too expensive new for most people. You can buy a perfectly good new bicycle for £500 and get into (bike) racing through that. But the only route into SUP racing for most people will be to buy used not new because you'll have to pay 2-3 times as much for a basic race board as a basic race bike. Once you've got used to buying used, you get a liking for it - especially since buying a new board is a godawful palaver involving long waits, endless enquiries, phone calls and emails, and then the bloody thing turns up dinged anyway, or turns out to be the wrong model when it is unpacked (yes, this happened twice to friends).

Frankly, here in the UK, the main brands seem to be trying to make new purchasing about as punishing as possible. So it's not surprising that people aren't buying.

The entire way that the system operates needs some careful thinking about IMO. I don't think it's working for either customers or retailers.

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RiskyBusiness said..
Why does everyone want a 'deal'

Because $3000-$5000 is hard to cop when its a block of foam and a layer of glass or maybe carbon on top. For 5K you can buy a brand new (budget entry model) Seadoo - way more design and research has been spent on developing a jet ski including motor with piston rings, lubrication system, steering that works - than a block of foam shaped in Thailand thats dings easy.
Could also buy a scooter, second hand car, motobike or 3 iphone 7 for money..

Sadly I have traveled Australia the last month and seen the developing death of SUP racing in Australia. From little clicks that wont/dont paddle with each other, or acknowledge each other on the water, to a huge market of second hand boards that just not selling, to canceled events, to races where sup are just one class or an afterthought paddling in the same class as skis or racers that pro racing in community divisions, or being given the win yet came 4th, or paddled on their knees more than 4 times, (or what is even pro vs non pro? On flow? Get a discount? Sticker on your board?) to pro racers that have a pro attitude and wont talk, help, demo, show the little people, the consumers and board buyers their boards or how to imporve the consumers skills let alone even have a chat with them, to shops thats heavily discount stock to start a following, yet kill off themselves slowly overtime, to shops that wont stock race boards anymore or even worse the ones directly importing cheap Chinese JUNK that falls appart then provides no warranty support, to the store you have to take to court to get a refund on a faulty board,

Sadly our loved sport is dying.

Also forgot to mention the trolls on seabreeze that scare me off, or post bias reviews with a vested interest, or the events and companies that post messages like they are giving a military order not a sales pitch and support.

Sadly this is all contributing to a slow downward spiral in our sport - just look at kiting where eveyone undercuts each other, wants a deal, and now - NO LOCAL EVENTS NO MONEY OR SPONSORED TOURS etc..

Whats the solution? Maybe better pricing? Maybe more demonstration and explanations of what research and time is taken to make a new model every year, and how the costs turn a 100$ block of foam into a $5000 board in a Thia factor with significant differences to Australian health and safety standards/industrial relations or Maybe a better national community?






-if i think of other points I'll update the post. Also open to suggestions on how you are concerned/disagree.

Some very valid points made there Risky Business, the other thing I would like to add into the mix is custom race boards. Currently (in SE QLD at least) it is basically 20% cheaper to go to one of a few SUP shapers and get a custom race board (or surf SUP) made exactly to the specifications you desire and you have input into it from the design stage all the way through to the spray job and you walk away knowing who has made your board, the effort that has gone into making it and you know that the shaper will provide you ongoing support as it is required.

The idea with production equipment of any variety (SUP's, Bikes, Cars etc.) is that they are made on a large scale for a large global market with savings for the manufacturer based on the quantity of scale i.e. the more production race boards made the the more savings to the manufacturer. The expectation or mass produced production equipment is that a percentage of the the manufacturers cost savings will be passed on to the buyer when they purchase a new production race board. This is obviously not occurring because if you can buy a comparable custom race board for 20% cheaper than a production board then someone somewhere is making large amounts of money off of the savings from large scale production and the price they are charging the new production board buyer.

Now I am pretty sure that the local retailer isn't the one making the money so if the distributors and the global SUP companies want to ensure that their local retailers are supported by the consumer they need to give the consumer a reason to go to the local retailer by ensuring that the cost savings from large scale production race boards are passed all the way down the line to the buyer because if they aren't willing to pass on the savings then the buyer will go elsewhere and what better way to support local businesses than buy from the local shaper.

Yeah, it may be that the numbers of sales worldwide of premium hard boards - in particular race boards a just not big enough to achieve real economies of scale. Maybe within a few years local shapers could fulfil this market, and either the brands use them to produce the product locally rather than pay a factory in Thailand to do it for them, or the main brands just concentrate on the big sales (e.g. inflatables, all-round SUPs for the entry-level market) while local shapers build the fancy stuff like race-boards. This is what seems to be happening here already. The shops are full of inflatables which outsell hard boards 10-1, and pretty much no shops here actually hold stock of hard boards. Many retailers seem to have given up entirely on selling SUPs. The money is to be made in rentals and lessons instead.

Something is definitely wrong if a local shaper can make a custom cheaper than it costs to get Cobra to build it and get it to us.

This is a very interesting and entertaining thread

Got the first Javelin 2017 14 x 24 in Europe, happy with. And get a new Naish Elite race paddle soon from the racers program. Board and paddle are affordable now That day it was 1.5 degrees celsius. I experience the board durable as the pvc is beneath the topcoat. It feels very good and the sound is different from my board without the pvc structure. Bumped it several times, no scratches at all, no damages at all.

Blimey that looks exactly like a place that I paddle. You don't live on the South Coast UK do you?

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Area10 said..
Blimey that looks exactly like a place that I paddle. You don't live on the South Coast UK do you?

No, this is Winsum, Netherlands. We had a bunch of a paddlers, more as 22 km paddle.

Ah, OK. I was working in Utrecht in the summer and was surprised how many SUPs were on the canals there. SUP looks strong in the Netherlands, eh?

Fantastic stuff carvers , that's all I was asking for The same deal as you guys are getting

I could write a long response to things here but I'll just refer to the race scene in Oz which sounds completely different to what Area 10 is experiencing in the UK.

Firstly, Risky Business mentioned the cancellation of 2 events here as part of the "developing death of SUP racing in Australia" . Both these events, The Forster Island Paddle Festival and The Saucy Jack Classic have been expanding in numbers and have been going from strength to strength each year. These events have both focused on the elite racer and the family community paddler alike. Unfortunately, both events were only cancelled for the 2017 race season due to issues that affected the ability of the race organisers to run and promote their events in the manner we would like. It is more than likely that both events will be up and running stronger than ever in 2018. The cancellation of these races is not indicative of the race scene here in any shape or form.

The race scene here has been supported since inception by the SUP retailers around the country, either in isolation or in conjunction with the surf ski races that are held on both the East and West coast. Yes, I agree, some ski races have the SUPs tacked on, but most here in NSW at least, set courses after tallking with us and working out our requirements. In the early years of SUP, even as recently as 4 years ago, we would not have had races if it wasn't for the ski organisers.

I believe Naish are probably doing the right thing here supporting the retailer as it's the retailer who is currently holding stock of boards, running demos and promoting the sport. It sounds very different to the service and availability that Area 10 is experiencing. Many of these same retailers are working with the wholesalers down at Merimbula right now enabling paddlers to demo virtually every available brand in Australia for 4 complete days. Smart retailers, many of whom were originally involved in the windsurf market, know that supporting the market is the way to grow it.

As my experience is mainly in Sydney I will focus my comments here (and yes I am aware of what happens in Queensland). In Sydney the local race scene has been held up for years by Wind Surf N Snow. They have supported every race, every function and a huge number of paddlers for years. They've encouraged beginners, run clinics, run demo days and set up multiple training groups as well as supported a group of passionate team riders. In more recent years, as their shop has become more established, SUP Gear Australia has also come on board to support races via sponsorship, run demos and generally promote the sport. In fact the race scene in Sydney is doing anything but die, with Balmoral Boards now running an exceptional race series/demo day that is extremely well supported. In excess of 40 racers are turning up to race including the guys working at the other shops. The Balmoral series is inclusive of all levels of paddlers and sets a course for the experienced and beginner paddler alike. People new to racing with old and new race boards turn up for a paddle every month. Balmoral's series is likely to expand and in conjunction with the huge race weekend they hold, Balmoral is certainly helping to expand the race scene in Sydney.

I'd love to write more, however, I have to rush to the airport to catch a plane to WA where there are already over 140 people registered to race King of The Cut. That includes nearly 60 from the East Coast. Sounds like racing is doing anything but die.

PS. For those that aren't aware, The Sydney International Paddleboard Classic is an open ocean race being held on the weekend of the 10th-11th December. In it's 3rd year, this event will once again attract many of Australia's top SUP paddlers ...if their boards get back from WA in time.

If you're interested in racing most major events across Australia are posted on Face Book on the AuSUP Page.
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