Not sure if I'm the only one whose noticed this, but every topic about a race recently seems to turn into a discussion on board classes and takes away from the discussion of the event itself. I've been guilty of joining the discussion too at times but have been trying to refrain myself from sabotaging another topic.

Take the NSW titles feedback, started out with a huge amount of praise for the event & pics etc and reading some of the current posts its hard to realise its a discussion about that event at all. Yes there's a place there to discuss the race classes offered in that particular event, but I figured its about time (based on the number of people who want to have their say) that we had a separate topic to discuss races classes in general and left the event topics for a discussion of the events themselves.

So here's a place to have your say.

BOP - 12'6
Marathon - 14' and under (choose your weapon), plus an unlimited class.
Pro open, a grade, b grade, clubman and vets (sorry bringing out the MX classes... seems to work there).

maybe international events can b all 12'6 cause of travel issues?

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skebstebamal said...
BOP - 12'6
Marathon - 14' and under (choose your weapon), plus an unlimited class.
Pro open, a grade, b grade, clubman and vets (sorry bringing out the MX classes... seems to work there).

maybe international events can b all 12'6 cause of travel issues?

Totally agree. The grades have been used in cycling as well.

I vote for more classes and divisions as the sport grows you will need make these divisions and its probably better to do it sooner rather than later. I reckon the one class that is missing is male over 45 with first names beginning with G.

Just saying

Should be two major classes , stock , pro , elite or whatever you want to call it and unlimited.In the unlimited class you ride what suits you best. In the pro class you ride what is sanctioned by the powers that be.In my opinion this class should be 14 , 14 is fine for bop and good for downwindand good for flat water.12,6 should be for the kidsAt the end of the day you have to have a class that crowns a true world champ, or it will end up like boxing WBA WBO IBF ICA XXX ect ect.And if you are a 100kg ball of muscle and power , you should choose another sport if you want to be competetive in the elite class on a 12,6 board.Trying to make racing fair by adjusting board length to rider weight , is just not fair at all.The only way to do this is have weight classes like boxing , we all ride 12,6 or 14 boards but have weight classes. , and this just wont work because the MONEY needs to be in one class.

thanks Ali, it seems a shame that some good wrap ups of events turn into the same thing and take away from the paddlers and event themselves.

IMO BOP 12.6 and under. I really challenge any person to be more comfortable on a 14 in true beach conditions, not a paddle out at Lacey's/Currumbin creek mouth....

12'6 for Bop
14' for everything else in elite or pro class and unlimited for social racing. Why should the rest of us have to drop back to 12'6" just so we can race against the top 6 guys in Aus trying to get a spot on the team for ISA. My own opinion is the elite race be 14'.

I myself raced 12'6" in our Vic Titles, only because that is what I was told the top guys would be racing on, I would rather be beaten riding the same length board rather than getting my arse kicked when I am on something bigger.

In saying that, I was only beaten in the Vic titles by 1 x 14' and nothing else, I was stoked to take out the win in the 12'6" elite class but it was still all about the overall win which happened to be a 14'. Put us all in the same class but also have the different age divisions.

I seroiusly don't get why the board lengths used at ISA are being adopted in Oz for Nationals, States, etc.
If marathon was to be 14' in Oz, the few gun paddlers that qualify for ISA would have absolutely no problem adapting to a 12'6" for the ISA marathon.
Our sport needs more unity and less division.....IMHO

Just paddle what you've got..

DJ

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Deano72 said..

I seroiusly don't get why the board lengths used at ISA are being adopted in Oz for Nationals, States, etc.
If marathon was to be 14' in Oz, the few gun paddlers that qualify for ISA would have absolutely no problem adapting to a 12'6" for the ISA marathon.
Our sport needs more unity and less division.....IMHO

i agree.

a year and a half ago it was all settled. dw distance- 14', bop- 12'6. it was so easy- two boards did every thing.

then it all got weird.

i'm pleased some elites have spoken- people take notice then

poor,good and average paddlers are idiots, only elite paddlers have any brains- doesn't seem fair they can have both

OK. A bit left field, but that's just me.
Don't have a race board, just started surfing a standup this year, but am seriously thinking about some races.
Problem is, what to get. Way too many options. One class 14' and under. That's it, race what ever you want as long as it's under 14'.
Within that I include Ocean downwinders as well. Absolutely ridiculous to have open 'ride what you like' ocean races, soon it will be 30' tri-hulled scoop decked, canoe bottom, winged keel, carbon fibre etc etc.
Then as discussed earlier, opens/pros and age groups. Thats it.
Life would be so much simpler.

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laceys lane said..

a year and a half ago it was all settled. dw distance- 14', bop- 12'6. it was so easy- two boards did every thing.

Why even restrict bop to 12'6? If the shorter board is truly an advantage then the top guys will ride that and continue to win.

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husq2100 said..

thanks Ali, it seems a shame that some good wrap ups of events turn into the same thing and take away from the paddlers and event themselves.

IMO BOP 12.6 and under. I really challenge any person to be more comfortable on a 14 in true beach conditions, not a paddle out at Lacey's/Currumbin creek mouth....

Very little difference in true beach conditions!(whatever they are). Personally i find 14 to be better for paddle outs , simply because they are quicker.They also suit a wider range of paddlers. Lately i have been taking my 14 flat watwer board into the surf and find it paddles out great , yes doesent surf very well , but a bop race is not a surfing contest!

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teatrea said...

husq2100 said..

thanks Ali, it seems a shame that some good wrap ups of events turn into the same thing and take away from the paddlers and event themselves.

IMO BOP 12.6 and under. I really challenge any person to be more comfortable on a 14 in true beach conditions, not a paddle out at Lacey's/Currumbin creek mouth....

Very little difference in true beach conditions!(whatever they are). Personally i find 14 to be better for paddle outs , simply because they are quicker.They also suit a wider range of paddlers. Lately i have been taking my 14 flat watwer board into the surf and find it paddles out great , yes doesent surf very well , but a bop race is not a surfing contest!

I understand your point however bops are more about control in the surf then paddling hard. The person that wins is the person that doesn't make a mistake

Traveling to a state titles with a surfing Sup , 12-6 & a 14 is ridiculous. The Bop & downwind should just be 12-6 & it has to be the same board for both. Saves people a lot of money and hassle , you could then have A&B division , prize money for A only. This keeps the payout figure higher and makes the continuous road trips worth while for the pros.

Yeah, kinda of agree Rob. Does it have to be 20km anyways? Seems not at the NSW Titles.

I have a 12'6" cause I can surf it on tiny days, race BOP and DW on it pretty well as I only go if it's a pumping wind.

Aren't the true DW aficionados on longer boards?

If you want bigger numbers to enter events you need to cater to their needs with more divisions, be that weight or age divs. I would love to go in a few races but I'm not going to waste my time and expense entering to race against elite races and have no hope of placing. We all need to race against people at our own level otherwise you will never get the numbers.

When I raced mt bikes.. we had a beginner class.. A sport class.. and an expert class.

The beginners would often do just one lap.. Sport would do three.. and experts would do six.

It didn't matter how good or bad your bike was.

I think this would work for sup.

DJ

Deano is spot on. Limiting length at a National level is bull. Should be 12'6" for bop, 14' for ocean and the elite can adapt to 12'6" for the Worlds if they make the team. Pretty simple. Anybody thinking different is WRONG IMO.

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malibujet said..

If you want bigger numbers to enter events you need to cater to their needs with more divisions, be that weight or age divs. I would love to go in a few races but I'm not going to waste my time and expense entering to race against elite races and have no hope of placing. We all need to race against people at our own level otherwise you will never get the numbers.

Another way to cater for the masses is to not only offer prizes for 1st, 2nd, 3rd but lots of door prizes just for entering. This is something SUP WA has taken on board and utilised as we found the places were being distributed amongst a handful of paddlers regardless of long/short distance, ocean or flat water. This also provides an incentive for everyone to hang around at or for presentations as they have a chance of winning something. At last years Bridge the Bank we have 5 x $100 gift vouchers to the restaurant/pub we were having our presentations at as door prizes as an example.

Here is an overlook of scenarios with anything from 12'6 - 14' - Open in terms of ideal rider weight (for an Elite), across disciplines and wrt storage and transport to events. Board size suggestions in the Open class are dependent on rider size and conditions.

12'6
BOP:
Rider up to 75kg
Easiest to turn
Easiest to ride waves
DISTANCE:
Rider up to 70-75kg
5-10% slower than 14' or Open
DOWNWIND:??
Rider up to 80kg??
Slowest class unless very steep short period swell with lots of wind
STORAGE:?
Doable?
TRANSPORT:
Some airlines will take

14'?
BOP:
Rider up to 95kg
Easy to turn for bigger guy
Easy to ride waves for bigger guy
Faster than 12?6 in flats
DISTANCE:
Rider up to 85-90kg
5% slower than Open
DOWNWIND:
Rider up to 100kg?
Faster than 12'6 in all conditions
As fast as Open inshore and close period swell dwd
STORAGE:
Doable
TRANSPORT:
Road, sea or rent

OPEN:?
BOP
Rider up to 100kg
You choose board suitable for you
Board probably 12'6-15'
Fastest craft
DISTANCE:
Rider up to 100kg
Board probably 14?-19'
Fastest craft
DOWNWIND:
Rider up to 110kg
Board probably 14' - 18'??
Fastest craft
STORAGE:
Most garages will take a 17'/18'
TRANSPORT:
Road, sea or rent

I just cant see how a 14 foot board is easier to paddle out through surf, scratching in dead white water, controlling/steering and surfing in, than a shorter board. There is a reason clubbie mals are only 10.6... Im 85kg and would be happy paddling a 11 foot custom race board in the surf over a 12.6....

Teatree, next time its 3-4 foot at the alley, go paddle out on crumumbin beach front or further up north....BTW It is also my opinion that most 12.6 are more suited to falt water and open ocean than surf racing. If, and thats a big if, more races are had in the surf in Oz I can see a shift in design change for those particular boards. Probably wont happen though

I do not dispute that a 14 foot board is better for flat water and open ocean racing. Im sure ISA has their reasons and more things to weigh up other than what suits a rider best....

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husq2100 said..

I just cant see how a 14 foot board is easier to paddle out through surf, scratching in dead white water, controlling/steering and surfing in, than a shorter board. There is a reason clubbie mals are only 10.6... Im 85kg and would be happy paddling a 11 foot custom race board in the surf over a 12.6....

Teatree, next time its 3-4 foot at the alley, go paddle out on crumumbin beach front or further up north....BTW It is also my opinion that most 12.6 are more suited to falt water and open ocean than surf racing. If, and thats a big if, more races are had in the surf in Oz I can see a shift in design change for those particular boards. Probably wont happen though

I do not dispute that a 14 foot board is better for flat water and open ocean racing. Im sure ISA has their reasons and more things to weigh up other than what suits a rider best....

this was a big day , and i was glad i was on my 14 because i could get out quick! Ive taken big borads out in large surf heaps of times and bigger is better. 14 just suits a heavy bloke like me , on a good week im about 90kg when im a bit naughty closer to 95kg.Im not a gun paddler by any stretch of my imagination , but when i used to ride my 12,6 and i would be beside another rider on a 12,6 who was lighter than me i could easily tell i was working much harder to keep pace. 14 evens things up for me , a 14 is just as easy as 12,6 to handle in surf.

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teatrea said..

husq2100 said..

I just cant see how a 14 foot board is easier to paddle out through surf, scratching in dead white water, controlling/steering and surfing in, than a shorter board. There is a reason clubbie mals are only 10.6... Im 85kg and would be happy paddling a 11 foot custom race board in the surf over a 12.6....

Teatree, next time its 3-4 foot at the alley, go paddle out on crumumbin beach front or further up north....BTW It is also my opinion that most 12.6 are more suited to falt water and open ocean than surf racing. If, and thats a big if, more races are had in the surf in Oz I can see a shift in design change for those particular boards. Probably wont happen though

I do not dispute that a 14 foot board is better for flat water and open ocean racing. Im sure ISA has their reasons and more things to weigh up other than what suits a rider best....

this was a big day , and i was glad i was on my 14 because i could get out quick! Ive taken big borads out in large surf heaps of times and bigger is better. 14 just suits a heavy bloke like me , on a good week im about 90kg when im a bit naughty closer to 95kg.Im not a gun paddler by any stretch of my imagination , but when i used to ride my 12,6 and i would be beside another rider on a 12,6 who was lighter than me i could easily tell i was working much harder to keep pace. 14 evens things up for me , a 14 is just as easy as 12,6 to handle in surf.

yep mate, Ive seen you out there many times on your bigger boards. Good fun for sure. But sorry thats still the Alley, not sure how to convey the difference between it and paddling out on a beach break...remember its a point with a river mouth/deep water so makes a big difference compared to a straight beach break.

Take a look of vids of BOP California, steepish beach with shore dump/break, then deep water and a break out the back. Alot different to a beach breaks here with sand banks that can be only 1-2 foot deep and have broken wave after broken wave coming in at you. Id say a 14 foot board would probably be faster in those type conditions in USA and Hawaii, but here on the East coast, Id back shorter boards...moot point really because racing sint heading that way and probably wont

Im no gun paddler either, thats for damn sure. But I can tell you paddling surf sups in the surf (boards up to 11 foot long) is easier than my 12.6. And Yes I can even get moving quicker after popping over a wave and into dead white water on the smaller boards than the 12.6. Smaller paddles shorter shafts and high rating is also an advantage in broken water.

Just my opinion of coarse.

i really can't see races being held in the beach breaks your talking about husq. the clubbies have even canned going out in such surf. to standup and get through solid waves, well there wouldn't be much paddling being done. sup comps with people falling off due to adverse conditions is a bad enough look already


i do agree if they were, the boards would a lot different.

cheers

If we're not careful with SUP, we'll end up like windsurfing where once there were 100s and now hardly anyone. Windsurfing died because it got too technical with too much gear.....and we didn't cater for the average punter.

There is no doubt that 12'6" is the right size for BOP, particularly with races held at beach breaks. You wouldn't have wanted to race a 14 footer at the Collaroy "Paddle to Battle MS"

Unfortunately marathons warrant 14 footers and everyone should probably paddle the one size board. The guys wanting to paddle internationally are good enough to swap to 12'6"s when needed. Have everyone on a 14 footer and it becomes an even race. I understand Piros's concern about travelling with a BOP board and a race board but most cars carry 2 boards easily. (We don't all have a pimped out trailer like Piros)

Not everyone can afford a raceboard but many would still like to try a race. To cater to these paddlers perhaps a shorter course can be introduced at both marathons and BOPs where people just getting into the sport can have a go. The racing on the inflatables at Port Stephens and Collaroy was a great draw card also.

SurfforFun suggested lucky draw prizes. That's always worked at Merimbula and the Blast events so perhaps that's another way to attract new paddlers.

12'6" BOP
14' Marathon
Open Fun class to encourage new paddlers

NOT A PLACE TO BE ON A 14 FOOTER.

I'm convinced Danny Ching would be on a 14' in the BOP, if rules allowed it......you guys are asking the guy who managed to save up for a 14' to sit out on the one discipline because he didn't bring a 12'6? - doesn't make sense. Allow the guys to use a 14' and if people think the 12'6 is more suitable - let them use it.....that guy in the pic is screwed irrespective of whether his board is a foot longer or shorter....

Rather choose venues where exit may not be as murderous, ISA, BOP and most other technical courses are held in either completely flat or with a small chance of a wave on the way in - no need to make it a demolition derby.

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PeterP said..

that guy in the pic is screwed irrespective of whether his board is a foot longer or shorter....

I wouldnt be so sure, he made the drop, thats the hardest part. Thats a solid effort in my books!!!

(not the point you were trying to make but im impressed by the pic)

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RJK said..

PeterP said..

that guy in the pic is screwed irrespective of whether his board is a foot longer or shorter....

I wouldnt be so sure, he made the drop, thats the hardest part. Thats a solid effort in my books!!!

(not the point you were trying to make but im impressed by the pic)

You're probably right! His nose is up and with a bit of skilluck he'll ride out of it!

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PeterP said..

RJK said..

PeterP said..

that guy in the pic is screwed irrespective of whether his board is a foot longer or shorter....

I wouldnt be so sure, he made the drop, thats the hardest part. Thats a solid effort in my books!!!

(not the point you were trying to make but im impressed by the pic)

You're probably right! His nose is up and with a bit of skilluck he'll ride out of it!

ahahah

had to look up skilluck to see what it meant, was only when i couldnt find it i realised its meaning

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PeterP said..

I'm convinced Danny Ching would be on a 14' in the BOP, if rules allowed it......you guys are asking the guy who managed to save up for a 14' to sit out on the one discipline because he didn't bring a 12'6? - doesn't make sense. Allow the guys to use a 14' and if people think the 12'6 is more suitable - let them use it.....that guy in the pic is screwed irrespective of whether his board is a foot longer or shorter....

Rather choose venues where exit may not be as murderous, ISA, BOP and most other technical courses are held in either completely flat or with a small chance of a wave on the way in - no need to make it a demolition derby.

Totally agree , 12,6 will suit some some , 14 others let the rider decide. On those pics posted would not make skeric of difference if they where on 12,6 or 14.