Evening all,

Currently not getting as much time on the water as I'd like to...work travel is kicking my ar5e...

I've been looking at ways to try and get my balance improving when I'm not able to get out on the SUP (for reasons mentioned further down), and wondering if:

A) Has anyone used the 'Indo Board' style balance boards (or similar i.e. boards on a roller etc) at all, and;

B) If so, have you found the balance improvements gained are relatable to the movement when you get back onto your SUP, and give a decent result?

I'm thinking of stepping down from a 10'0" x 33" Naish Mana (190L) to a custom 'Stretch' Minion by Deep (somewhere around 8'4" or 8'6" x 32" at about 145L - if Simon will shape one that big!) but I have concerns that the significantly lower volume and 18-20" less length may be too big of a shift. I totally get that the parallel rail plan shape of the Minion makes it inherently stable for a board of its length, but would this be too big of a step down from the Mana?

Wanting to get into a shorter board for manouverability getting onto waves, but don't want to spend all my paddling time battling to just stay upright, and I think options like the Naish Hokua X32's, with their more traditional shape, might not be what I need in order to improve.

I'm 6'2" and ~112kgs, intermediate flat water paddler, novice SUP surfer on knee to shoulder-high waves (former prone surfer when younger), and wanting to get better - any advice would be appreciated!

Have a nice weekend all!

Just by the numbers.....

now:
you + board + paddle = 129 L
Board at 190 L divided by 129 = 1.47 (factor)
you are currently at the "intermediate" volume level... on a long, very stable board

What you are asking about:
Board at 145L divided by total weight of 125 L = 1.16 (factor)

Very few folks I know are at a factor of 1.16... and the ones that are.... are very good SUP surfers

You stated intermediate paddler and novice SUP surfer.... at 6'2, that would be a big commitment to training.

Strictly by the numbers:
it's a pretty big step for a tall novice surfer IMO

very steep learning curve, prepare for serious swim time.

I think, its a no go

SUPthecreek gave you really good advice. I love knowing my comfortable volume of board for a starting point. Recently I delved into some custom raptor type boards. three builds at 115L 7'10 x 31,120L 8'6" x 31" ,125L 8'8"x 32". I am an average skilled at sup, way better prone surfer and above average windsurfer.
The 7'10" 115 liter put me at 1.11 factor. MOST STABLE, EASY board to catch waves, worked in wind and chop and made me understand how important design is.
My dedicated wave SUP 9'2" x 29.5" 140 L is a factor of 1.28. Surfs great but a 8/10 difficulty with stability, sucks in wind and chop 8/10 difficulty due to my skill set. I committed this past summer to this board exclusively using it to get better at it. Took 2 sessions to have it under control but taking lots of work.
Once trying out the raptor type style it was a night and day difference. I think I could go even shorter and less volume personally.

I recommend custom raptor type and discuss volume with your shaper. I think that design 8'6" and 140-145 liters might easily work for you. Fun factor super high on these in my opinion
pic of 8'8" x 32" 125L awaiting final sanding and finishing.

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supthecreek said...
Just by the numbers.....

now:
you + board + paddle = 129 L
Board at 190 L divided by 129 = 1.47 (factor)
you are currently at the "intermediate" volume level... on a long, very stable board

What you are asking about:
Board at 145L divided by total weight of 125 L = 1.16 (factor)

Very few folks I know are at a factor of 1.16... and the ones that are.... are very good SUP surfers

You stated intermediate paddler and novice SUP surfer.... at 6'2, that would be a big commitment to training.

Strictly by the numbers:
it's a pretty big step for a tall novice surfer IMO

Thanks STC - very much appreciate the breakdown. Might put the idea on hold til I can shed some kg's methinks

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flowmaster said...
very steep learning curve, prepare for serious swim time.

I think, its a no go

Roger that, flowmaster. Thanks

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bb30 said...
SUPthecreek gave you really good advice. I love knowing my comfortable volume of board for a starting point. Recently I delved into some custom raptor type boards. three builds at 115L 7'10 x 31,120L 8'6" x 31" ,125L 8'8"x 32". I am an average skilled at sup, way better prone surfer and above average windsurfer.
The 7'10" 115 liter put me at 1.11 factor. MOST STABLE, EASY board to catch waves, worked in wind and chop and made me understand how important design is.
My dedicated wave SUP 9'2" x 29.5" 140 L is a factor of 1.28. Surfs great but a 8/10 difficulty with stability, sucks in wind and chop 8/10 difficulty due to my skill set. I committed this past summer to this board exclusively using it to get better at it. Took 2 sessions to have it under control but taking lots of work.
Once trying out the raptor type style it was a night and day difference. I think I could go even shorter and less volume personally.

I recommend custom raptor type and discuss volume with your shaper. I think that design 8'6" and 140-145 liters might easily work for you. Fun factor super high on these in my opinion
pic of 8'8" x 32" 125L awaiting final sanding and finishing.

Thanks for the input BB30. After reading supthecreek's advice and yours I think I may hold off for a bit, but point taken re. the Slate/Raptor/Minion shapes and their stability. That new board of yours looks amazing - I didn't know Blane (sorry - is that you??) did those kind of shapes! I know the looks of a board shouldn't really matter but I really like the wood finish

Mahalo

I agree with STC.. I'm lighter than you and I know I'd really struggle on a board of that volume.. If you're after a bit of a challenge and more performance than your 10' Mana I'd suggest starting with demo'ing the 9'1" or 9'6"x32" Hokua..

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DavidJohn said...
I agree with STC.. I'm lighter than you and I know I'd really struggle on a board of that volume.. If you're after a bit of a challenge and more performance than your 10' Mana I'd suggest starting with demo'ing the 9'1" or 9'6"x32" Hokua..

Sage advice, as always DJ. Query though - having not paddled the X32 Hokua's yet, I would've thought they (despite the higher volume over the Minion) may be quite 'tippy' due to the more traditional 'drawn-in' nose & tail? With the Minion/Raptor style, isn't it the increased surface area in contact with the water (i.e. broad nose & tail) that theoretically gives them their stability?)

Core strength helps, leg strength helps, practicing to balance with your eyes closed helps, but time on the water is the best way to improve your balance. I haven't tried the gizmo you suggested, but I did do some Pilates exercises and they helped (which included squatting on one leg with eyes closed). Sounds extreme, but I also travel a lot and you got to stay tuned somehow. (I also have a flat yoga ball with a bit of chipboard on top that I balance on when watching TV - all helps.)

As per previous comments, that board may be too big a step, so you need to find a board somewhere in between and make the transition. Maybe try a 9'5" 32" 165 liter board. I transitioned through a 9'5" Starboard Widepoint which was 153 liters - but that may be too small coming from 190 liters. But if you could demo one you would know where you stood.

The traditional shapes are tippier, but I think most of the bigger boards only come that way unless you get Simon to shape you a bigger board (look at their Paddle pop shape). Personally I would start with the liters (approx 165+), width (31" or 32") and then worry about length.

Just to throw one in with the pigeons - I'm exactly the same height and weight and loving my 8'8"x32 Hokua. No one I surf with would rate me as a 'good surfer', but I've found the board to be stable and fun on a wave. I'm fairly new to SUP, and apart from about 7 years of windsurfing - I'd never surfed.

It's probably not the 'easiest' choice of board to paddle around on, but once on a wave, there are no stability issues.

Re; 'waiting' to drop some kegs...I've been thinking that for years and although it is still my goal to get below the tonne - I'm enjoying the workout on the small board.

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808-Obsession said...

DavidJohn said...
I agree with STC.. I'm lighter than you and I know I'd really struggle on a board of that volume.. If you're after a bit of a challenge and more performance than your 10' Mana I'd suggest starting with demo'ing the 9'1" or 9'6"x32" Hokua..

Sage advice, as always DJ. Query though - having not paddled the X32 Hokua's yet, I would've thought they (despite the higher volume over the Minion) may be quite 'tippy' due to the more traditional 'drawn-in' nose & tail? With the Minion/Raptor style, isn't it the increased surface area in contact with the water (i.e. broad nose & tail) that theoretically gives them their stability?)

Yes.. But at your weight and the boards lower volume I think you'll find that standing still in calm water the board will be almost underwater so the added advantage of the square board will be slightly less than you would expect.. IMO.. You need to demo before you buy but that's hard to do if it's a custom board.. A friend of mine has just made a big boy vanguard style board.. I hope to paddle it soon so I'll let you know how I go on it and I'll post some pics.

808 obsession, just sold a used cork skinned sup yesterday that is an 8'10" x 32" @150L volume. I made it as an experiment Mccoy nugget shape, hulled nose to middle and channeled bottom quad. I am 6'4" and when I made it and rode it for 2 years was 102KG. SUPER STABLE in any condition, waves head high or smaller it was a suuper fun board. Double over head I had to actually stay calm, make purposeful adjustments to slow it down to control its speed. I stopped using it because it was messing up my learning curve for my 9'2" wave board mentioned above. In my opinion it was way too much foam for that design. Could have take at least 20 liters off it. I was a 1.18 factor with my weight for that board.

IF you want a surf-able wave board that is stable for the exact waves DJ's videos I see ,the stub nosed models are the ticket. I take mine out sometimes twice a day with the tides on the smallest waves and yesterdays swell I could catch the non breaking wave and ride it.

I fluctuate my weight from 190 to 230lbs for non surfing sports I participate in. Cutting weight and keeping it off was easier than I imagined. My prone surfing paddling abilities are definitely improved when I am at 190. SUPing for me in perfect waves pretty much anything works. I don't live in that world and the stub noses has made SUPing really fun again for me in most conditions.
I am not blane but his new unique bottom designs makes his boards stand out from any others on the market. I am not sure it the bottom is making this possible for me because I only have ridden my own shapes and his new shape.
Not sure where you live but if you are on oahu you can try this 125L Blane Chambers I am finishing up. I believe it would not only float you but it would be super stable at 32" wide and nose 18 percent narrower and tail 20 percent narrower. They are awesome in my opinion.

PIC below 7'10" with rider at a 1.15 factor. He is my tow partner and a way better waterman than me. Alligator rock north shore oahu last weekend small day








My 8'10" 150 L I sold yesterday. Guy loves it. Way too much foam for me with this design at 102KG



Blane Chambers unique bottoms.

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bb30 said...
808 obsession, just sold a used cork skinned sup yesterday that is an 8'10" x 32" @150L volume. I made it as an experiment Mccoy nugget shape, hulled nose to middle and channeled bottom quad. I am 6'4" and when I made it and rode it for 2 years was 102KG. SUPER STABLE in any condition, waves head high or smaller it was a suuper fun board. Double over head I had to actually stay calm, make purposeful adjustments to slow it down to control its speed. I stopped using it because it was messing up my learning curve for my 9'2" wave board mentioned above. In my opinion it was way too much foam for that design. Could have take at least 20 liters off it. I was a 1.18 factor with my weight for that board.

IF you want a surf-able wave board that is stable for the exact waves DJ's videos I see ,the stub nosed models are the ticket. I take mine out sometimes twice a day with the tides on the smallest waves and yesterdays swell I could catch the non breaking wave and ride it.

I fluctuate my weight from 190 to 230lbs for non surfing sports I participate in. Cutting weight and keeping it off was easier than I imagined. My prone surfing paddling abilities are definitely improved when I am at 190. SUPing for me in perfect waves pretty much anything works. I don't live in that world and the stub noses has made SUPing really fun again for me in most conditions.
I am not blane but his new unique bottom designs makes his boards stand out from any others on the market. I am not sure it the bottom is making this possible for me because I only have ridden my own shapes and his new shape.
Not sure where you live but if you are on oahu you can try this 125L Blane Chambers I am finishing up. I believe it would not only float you but it would be super stable at 32" wide and nose 18" narrower and tail 20" narrower. They are awesome in my opinion.

PIC below 7'10" with rider at a 1.15 factor. He is my tow partner and a way better waterman than me. Alligator rock north shore oahu last weekend small day








My 8'10" 150 L I sold yesterday. Guy loves it. Way too much foam for me with this design at 102KG



Blane Chambers unique bottoms.

Cheers for that. I'm in QLD but get over to Oahu & Kauai quite a bit. Generally on waves similar to those in DJ's vids, yeah. I really like the bottom shapes on Blane's boards and reckon it would make them super loose on a wave but wonder if it would compromise static stability? ie. they look slippery with that 'step' rail on the bottom?

PS thanks for the offer to try your board! If I get over again soon, I might take you up on that

Thanks for the responses, all, especially the honesty

Will think it over and demo demo demo where possible

Hey mate I'm sorta going through the same process as u at the moment I'm 6'4 and 115kegs I had a big board to start off with and have now got the new fanatic 9'4 x 33 it's 170 Ltrs heaps of volume for me but still falling off all the time and nose diving on take off. Slowly starting to sort it out !!!! Heaps of fun. My thought is get this board under control then go smaller and custom next summer. It's a good board not to much of a learning curve but tough enough for a rookie like myself. Defiantly worth a demo anyway.

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bourne4022 said...
Hey mate I'm sorta going through the same process as u at the moment I'm 6'4 and 115kegs I had a big board to start off with and have now got the new fanatic 9'4 x 33 it's 170 Ltrs heaps of volume for me but still falling off all the time and nose diving on take off. Slowly starting to sort it out !!!! Heaps of fun. My thought is get this board under control then go smaller and custom next summer. It's a good board not to much of a learning curve but tough enough for a rookie like myself. Defiantly worth a demo anyway.

Cheers bloke

I'm about your height and weight the naish 8"8 32 XE is the perfect board for you it has it all. You can surf it in 2ft conditions to well perfect waves in the ments. Great all round board won't let you down. It will take a bit of getting used to coming down from a 10"0 only in regards to where it is you need to stand for paddling into waves. It's the answer to bigger guys on smaller SUP's. Numbers are great it all comes down to ability and this will take you from intermediate to where you want to go

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supyamba said..
I'm about your height and weight the naish 8"8 32 XE is the perfect board for you it has it all. You can surf it in 2ft conditions to well perfect waves in the ments. Great all round board won't let you down. It will take a bit of getting used to coming down from a 10"0 only in regards to where it is you need to stand for paddling into waves. It's the answer to bigger guys on smaller SUP's. Numbers are great it all comes down to ability and this will take you from intermediate to where you want to go

I hate to disagree, and I love my 8'8" X32, but I came off a 9'5" x 32" widepoint, and I was approx 97 kg (6'3") when I bought the X32 and it took me a while to dial it in. It seems so stable now, but I thought it was possessed when I first started riding it. Mr. 808 is 15 kg heavier and will be coming from a bigger board and is a novice in surf. I think he needs a board somewhere in between as a stepping stone.

Do you surf the Naish at Angourie point? I've heard that they aren't that friendly there. Have you found this?

Just dropped from a 9' Laird Surfer (113L) to a Deep 7'11" (94L).
im keep the Laird as its a great longboard style board and find it exceptionally easy to paddle. That is, v rarely fall off, even on choppy days and over/through waves.
taken the 7'11" out once and had a terrible time. Maximum two strokes before falling in. Caught a wave prone and it surfed amazingly. So loose.
mind you it was 6' waves, a lot of water moving and a 25 knot wind. Will persevere with flat water paddling this week. But in Tassie the prospect of regular water time is not appealing!
some great advice this thread however. Any other tips welcome.
(6' and 86 kgs)

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CliftonBen said..
Just dropped from a 9' Laird Surfer (113L) to a Deep 7'11" (94L).
im keep the Laird as its a great longboard style board and find it exceptionally easy to paddle. That is, v rarely fall off, even on choppy days and over/through waves.
taken the 7'11" out once and had a terrible time. Maximum two strokes before falling in. Caught a wave prone and it surfed amazingly. So loose.
mind you it was 6' waves, a lot of water moving and a 25 knot wind. Will persevere with flat water paddling this week. But in Tassie the prospect of regular water time is not appealing!
some great advice this thread however. Any other tips welcome.
(6' and 86 kgs)

gee Benny, you kept that one quite, secret weapon for the TassieSUP Winter Classic ?
less than 2 weeks to go

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CliftonBen said..
Just dropped from a 9' Laird Surfer (113L) to a Deep 7'11" (94L).
im keep the Laird as its a great longboard style board and find it exceptionally easy to paddle. That is, v rarely fall off, even on choppy days and over/through waves.
taken the 7'11" out once and had a terrible time. Maximum two strokes before falling in. Caught a wave prone and it surfed amazingly. So loose.
mind you it was 6' waves, a lot of water moving and a 25 knot wind. Will persevere with flat water paddling this week. But in Tassie the prospect of regular water time is not appealing!
some great advice this thread however. Any other tips welcome.
(6' and 86 kgs)

Dont give up, keep paddling flexing legs and bending knees use a shorter paddle nose or eye highed shaft. Do some stretching from lower body more you reinforced strength paddling or standing low on the board.
No victory without pain

I know you like surprises River Rider! Can stand on flat calm water now, so all is not lost. hopefully can give it a run at the Winter Classic!