Hello , just purchased a 9'7" surftech caddy and would like to try the "cheyne horan winged keel fin". Has anyone tried these , or could give an educated opinion on their worth - knee to head high slightly choppy beachbreaks are what I surf.
If it is too windy or choppy I go for a river or lake paddle! Probably buy one to trial, but there are 3 sizes , any info?
Steve

I bought two (there was only one size at the time), I tried mine on a wide 6'6" with boxy rails:



And gave one to Patrice Guenole for him to test. He liked it most on a mini-noserider 6'9" as it gave an insane hold in noserides, but with speed and nimbleness for ultra quick mini-stall turns



My feeling is that it gives the same feeling as vertical fins like the Spitfire: (here on my 9'6")

That is, very quick turns but without a lot of control, in the sense that you do not have this gradual drive along a steady curve as with a swept-back fin. In a way it would be similar to a bike with a vertical front fork, prone to engage quickly as soon as you begin the turn, whereas a diagonal fork like on a chopper will have steady turns. The great thing with it however, is that it does not loose grip when you bank a lot the board like with a traditional single fin. Basically it allows you to commit fully to quick radical turns with the feel of a single fin and the grip of a multi-fin.

Also, it does not have the problem prone surfers have with it: the leash doesn't tangle in it as our leash floats more at the surface than prone surfers.

The drawback is that it doesn't work well with boards with a lot of tail lift, as this will put the winglets at an angle with the water flow and brake you. I liked it best with boards with a lot of tail volume, as if you sink the tail in turns the winglets may come at an angle with the water flow and feel "wobbly". But Patrice likes it best on the pictured 6'9" that has a very narrow tail that you sink to do stall turns, so it depends on individual preferences I guess.

Anyways, definitely a fin to try for all the SUPers with an open mind.

PS: Cheyne seems away from his email for months at a time. He answered no queries from people on the Gong forum wanting to buy one in the last 6 months, so if he answers you, grab one as soon as you can. Even if you do not like it

i sent an email 3 weeks ago asking for a delivered price into adelaide and haven't heard from him

Have used the winged keel fin when they were first released .Could not really tell the difference between it and a conventional fin.I think if you are an expert nose rider you should be able to appreciate any differences.Never tried one ,but the turbo tunnel fin would give similar characteristics wouldn't it?As has been previously stated ,a lot of the performance will depend on rail shape and tail shape.The board that Cheyne Horan used this fin on ,if my memory serves me well,was fairly unconventional,with a wide rounded tail shape.

The board was very small with a wide rounded tail.

My new fin for my 10'6'' Nalu.

DJ

Hey DJ, I hope you have a better experience with it than I did. I got sent one to demo a bit over a year ago and couldn't wait to test it. It lasted about 3 waves before I changed it back.

The fin seemed to drag when paddling for a wave, but as soon as i stepped back it hit turbo, nearly throwing me off the back. As soon as I stepped forward again - brakes locked on again! I personally found the fin too inconsistent for my liking. I look forward to reading your comments on it though.

Edit - I reckon the fin would work if it hinged or adjusted at the front. The fixed angle of the wings just don't work in relation to the rocker and changing stance imo.

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Sailhack said..

Hey DJ, I hope you have a better experience with it than I did. I got sent one to demo a bit over a year ago and couldn't wait to test it. It lasted about 3 waves before I changed it back.

The fin seemed to drag when paddling for a wave, but as soon as i stepped back it hit turbo, nearly throwing me off the back. As soon as I stepped forward again - brakes locked on again! I personally found the fin too inconsistent for my liking. I look forward to reading your comments on it though.

Edit - I reckon the fin would work if it hinged or adjusted at the front. The fixed angle of the wings just don't work in relation to the rocker and changing stance imo.

Thanks.. I've never thought these tricky fandangled shaped fins do anything but create drag.. But after drooling over the beautiful swoopy looks and little red love heart on the tip I found myself reaching for my wallet.. even if it ends up sitting on a shelf collecting dust..

DJ

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Sailhack said..
The fin seemed to drag when paddling for a wave, but as soon as i stepped back it hit turbo, nearly throwing me off the back.

Seems that your board has too much tail lift for these kind of fins, putting the winglets at an angle and inducing drag... and stepping back will sink a bit the tail and put the winglet back in the water flow.
I think they are better for boards with not too much tail kick, wide tail, and that are used at high speed where you are not likely to have a lot of rocking motions... kind of the boards Cheyne used :-)

so DJ, what is the height of your 3d compared to the star fin, which by the way is available from rob at watershack who pm'd me after my initial post

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colas said..

Sailhack said..
The fin seemed to drag when paddling for a wave, but as soon as i stepped back it hit turbo, nearly throwing me off the back.

Seems that your board has too much tail lift for these kind of fins, putting the winglets at an angle and inducing drag... and stepping back will sink a bit the tail and put the winglet back in the water flow.
I think they are better for boards with not too much tail kick, wide tail, and that are used at high speed where you are not likely to have a lot of rocking motions... kind of the boards Cheyne used :-)

I agree Colas, that was the first impression I got as well. DJ's middle photo above shows how it could cause drag instead of lift, when the tail rocker isn't parellel to the direction you're travelling (ie; paddling for a wave, stepping forward etc.) because the wings are kicked up at the back - they seem to want to pull the board down, causing drag...a slight change in body weight to the tail & it aligns with the direction & takes off.

It feels a bit like sitting in a car with an L-plater driving - bunny-hopping along the road.

I reckon if it could somehow pivot, it would be a dynamic ride - although I don't see how this could be achieved. It might work with a mal shape tail to some degree.

From memory from my long boarding days some of the mal riders loved that fin for nose riding saying it helped to keep the tail from lifting.. btw.. Just measured my fin and it's only 6" long but looks more like an 8 or 9" fin with the end bit missing.. I'm not expecting it to really work well but I will be pleasantly surprised if it does..

DJ

got my star fin from watershack via oz post for $80. left currubin on friday and in adelaide on tuesday - thanks rob and leiona

1st try this morning in knee high glass and it went well seeming it's been a long while between surfs for me. turns sharply, trims nicely and paddles pretty straight. i look forward to getting used to it as i get my sea legs back

No offense mate, but I think you have mounted it backwards, the screw must be towards the tail. (max thickness of the foil to the front)

To be honest, 90% of the feeling of this fin is given by its straight, vertical planshape (sharp turns) rather than the winglets that will just grant less slippage in really banked turns tans a non-winglet fin (aside from drag when not in the water flow)

WTF! i feel like a dick now!!! i was slaveishly following convention with the screw at the front. rob emailed me saying the base has the word 'front' etched into it. must read instructions, although putting it in backwards like this meant it was great for all the fin first take offs i was doing

thanks

Don't be too hard on yourself pop...you're not alone!

OK DJ - How did it go - waiting to get some feedback before buying - maybe second hand from you? - better than dust on the shelf!
Steve

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colas said...
No offense mate, but I think you have mounted it backwards, the screw must be towards the tail. i

I noticed it too but wasn't going to say.. It's an easy mistake to make.. If in doubt feel the foil with your hand and the thickest part should be forward of center.

DJ

The Star- fin(winged keel) is a fast and easy to turn fin, it reacts very quick and has minimal drag as the widgth is narrow. It has a lifting effect which allows you to turn quicker as you glide through the water. The power in the turns is great, it goes from A to B fast. I remember catching a wave with Randy Rarick at Waimea and he was loading up a turn and was fully laid over and I just Touched my turn and and took off he was still trying to get projection and I had already moved away from him at the rate of knotts and we had started our turns together....there are alot positive aspects to the fin. I use it with a stand up paddle leg rope to stop leg rope getting caught on it and I dont screw the fin in. I wedge the fin in with aluminium and the wings find themselves with the bottom of each board, and then it stays in that position...The fin was designed by Ben Lexcen from technology and water testing...its the modern day fin.
Cheyne Horan

World Champion & Master Coach

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cheynehoran said..



The Star- fin(winged keel) is a fast and easy to turn fin, it reacts very quick and has minimal drag as the widgth is narrow. It has a lifting effect which allows you to turn quicker as you glide through the water. The power in the turns is great, it goes from A to B fast. I remember catching a wave with Randy Rarick at Waimea and he was loading up a turn and was fully laid over and I just Touched my turn and and took off he was still trying to get projection and I had already moved away from him at the rate of knotts and we had started our turns together....there are alot positive aspects to the fin. I use it with a stand up paddle leg rope to stop leg rope getting caught on it and I dont screw the fin in. I wedge the fin in with aluminium and the wings find themselves with the bottom of each board, and then it stays in that position...The fin was designed by Ben Lexcen from technology and water testing...its the modern day fin.
Cheyne Horan

World Champion & Master Coach

Thanks for the post Cheyne.. and welcome to the Breeze..

btw.. are you doing any stand up paddling yourself?

DJ

welcome Cheyne. and yes i've put my fin in front first this time so let that be a lesson to everbody else!

as this photo shows, i've got an inch or so fore and aft space in the box to play with. i'd be interested to know what you think moving the fin around will do based on my previous photo showing the outline of the board. i'll get used to it in the middle first

Cheyne, great to read you here!

Thanks for your tip on not using a screw to position the winglets parallel to the board, will definitely try it. I must say your fin is great for SUPing because we can apply easily the needed power with the paddle for leverage, its good grip in the water help countering the row effect on take off, and since our leash cuff is out of the water when paddling, it doesnt get tangled in the fin like when sitting on a prone board with the ankles moving around the fin.

Cheyne, I had set up a forum thread (in French, at www.gong-galaxy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3424 ) to help French people to know how to order your fins (especially for those not familiar with English), but they tell me they emailed you with no answer since november. What method do you recommend to order your fins from France?

PS: Now, we need to get MR, Rabbit, TC, ... to post here too ;-)

PS2: Now what is great with seabreeze is that we can actually have people like Cheyne talking about his gear... That on standup zone the admin would have wanted him to pay to post makes all the difference...

Cheyne As posted - knee to head high slightly choppy beachbreaks -9'7" surftech caddy - which size fin? how much in total if you post to me at Woolgoolga - just north coffs harbour
regards Steve

This thread and the flextail thread should get together... would be an interesting result imo.

Someone who's initials are C H (can't say to much as it was his first time out) was seen surfing Burleigh on Wednesday on a SUP. And yup it had a winged keel.

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rockmagnet said..

Someone who's initials are C H (can't say to much as it was his first time out) was seen surfing Burleigh on Wednesday on a SUP. And yup it had a winged keel.

Nice.. Did his board look like a pumpkin seed..

DJ

Total newbie board and paddle (hope he doesn't read Seabreeze cause he's gunna kill me)

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paddlepop said..

WTF! i feel like a dick now!!! i was slaveishly following convention with the screw at the front. rob emailed me saying the base has the word 'front' etched into it. must read instructions, although putting it in backwards like this meant it was great for all the fin first take offs i was doing

thanks

I really enjoyed that Paddlepop.......3 minutes on and still chuckling.

I'm only laughing because it is the sort of thing I would do.... but someone else did......and folk on the forum are soooo nice about it. I am a member of a diff UK surfing forum and I would have never heard the end of it.

I'm not sure I'd go for one of the middle winged keels but I do look the like of the Rainbow Speedwings sidebites.

(Proud owner of a handshaped McCoy Nugget btw.)

Oop's Hi Cheyne