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benjl said..
Hi Bob

out of curiosity, how did adding two fin plugs change the flex of the board? Quite intrigued about your response below. Or do you mean by making it a quad instead of a thruster it altered the board dynamics?

Cheers
Ben

FRP said..

benjl said..
hey guys

met a dude a few days ago who wants to buy another board and has offered me his Sunova Flash.
When I enquired about why it didn't have the normal 'flash' paint job, he said it was a custom and didn't want the look of the normal board.
I asked him what else was custom and he said only other thing was reduction in width from 27 3/4 to 27.5" wide although the board itself says 27".
The finished size seems to be 8x27 x 93.3L which is .3L higher than the normal factory model despite being .75" more narrow.

What's everyone's feedback on this board? Reckon these custom changes will change it much in handling over the normal dimensions?

I've gotta drive 5hrs each way to pick it up so want to be sure before committing to the purchase!

Tried emailing Bert to see if he could tell me anything from the serial numbers but haven't had a response yet .

Cheers guys

Hi Benji

I was pleasantly surprised to see FCS2 fin boxes in your(?) custom flash. A few months back I converted a Sunova Skate to a quad setup by adding FCS2 boxes. That led to some interesting comments about changing the flex of the board and included that Bert might have a fit if he saw it. I think that it shows the maturity of this company that for custom boards options on fin boxes are possible. Let us know how the board and the boxes work out for you.

cheers

Bob

Hi Benji

During the conversion I had sought some opinions about converting the Skate to a quad. One interesting comment was that the FCS 2 boxes when installed tend to tie the bottom to the top of the board and thus change the flex. Bert in his discussion about Sunova fin boxes does make some interesting points about how he builds the fin boxes. I don't feel any difference in flex. It remains a smooth board to surf and doesn't bounce around a lot. I would have sold the Skate if I hadn't converted it. For me now I can take it out in much bigger waves with better hold on the wave face. Big for me is head to head and a half high.I don't really see a big increase in speed, it was already a fast board. It can be interesting on steep drops as quite a flat board but definitely getting a lot more time on the water as a quad especially now with the winter storms going through. Very very stable when standing out back in crazy chop. Was out this morning with it in sizeable waves and a close out broke my Werner paddle. The board construction is bomb proof.

Cheers

Bob

That's fascinating, I would never have thought the fin box would tie the top of the board to the bottom? In fact I'd never thought there would be any differences between the fin boxes themselves with the only difference the style of fins that go in (which would have some difference in fcs vs futures due to the way the fin mounts to the board).

I wonder if Dylan from sunova has any comment here?
I thought a fin box was mounted the same on any board (provided it's the same fin box) so curious to know if this is not the case and how board flex maybe impacted upon this?

Hey Benjl,

What Bob mentioned is true, this is why we run FCS as standard, however it is nowhere near as critical on SUP's as it is on surfboards! Due to the construction method of our SUP's there is no noticeable difference between FCS, FCS2 or Futures as SUP's are a lot thicker and they also have a carbon fibre rail that makes them a lot stiffer than our balsa flex surfboards!

Obviously FCS2 and Futures boxes both have a greater footprint than standard FCS, in boards where flex is super critical the longer boxes create a stiff or ridged area in the board so it can no longer flex in that particular area, especially once you account for PVC reinforcements that go right through to the deck of the board, essentially tying the deck and bottom together altering the flex characteristics. With the standard FCS system the gap between the plugs and PVC reinforcement allowes the board to flex in that area, allowing a more positive response when you load the board tight up into the pocket!

If you want anymore information on technology or construction techniques, check out the technology page on the Sunova website, there's hours of videos of Bert talking about what goes into a Sunova board and exactly why it does..

Cheers,

Dylan

Thanks Dylan, that's really fascinating and something I'd never even considered!

So the inaugural first board review!
First things first- overall. This board likes to boogie! Maybe it's the lower volume, maybe it's the reduced width but I was flicking this board all over the place! As Bert said, it loves to go top to bottom and I was immediately ripping turns like I hadn't done before. It surfs like a shortboard, very natural, loose and flowy. It suited the style of turns I've been doing lately. It came with some large size kolohe andino fins which still felt loose despite being large!

Stability- For nearly a 20l / 20% jump in volume as well as more narrow and thinner, I was up comfortably and standing in about 3mins. After a 2hr surf I think I only came off twice? took a few waves to get the balance point right, especially when paddling on to waves but all good. Mind you it was only 2-3ft and super glassy so basically mint conditions. I did really notice how much harder it was to get 'on the wave' I guess due to the pin tail and rocker dragging it in smaller waves. Not sure how easy this would be in a lot of wind, water or heavy chop like my local can produce. Time will tell.

Nose- I see what you guys mean about the wider nose. It's not actually that wide but it feels quite wide on a drop. I did pearl once which I haven't done in a while and does feel like you need to get way back near the tail on really steep drops. I did actually make a few literal air drops from smacking the lip which I was sticking after a few.

rails- they are very low and the tucked under edge is very noticeable. I'm interested to know what the design principle of this and how it affects the ride as I haven't had a board like this before?

Dylan- the one thing I can't put my finger on yet is a strange 'whirring' / turbulent sound coming from the board as you get up to speed trimming down the line. No idea what's causing the sound? Fins are all in tight, nothing obvious?

i can't wait to try in bigger stuff and see how it rips.
i haven't had xxx construction before it feels solid and nice flex. Really nicely well made boards I have to admit!

At least the guy I paddled with seems to think I was cranking some big turns

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benjl said..
Dylan- the one thing I can't put my finger on yet is a strange 'whirring' / turbulent sound coming from the board as you get up to speed trimming down the line. No idea what's causing the sound? Fins are all in tight, nothing obvious?

That's the trailing edge of your fins. You need to sand them a little bit, asymmetrically.

See www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/Fin-Whistle?page=1

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benjl said..
the tucked under edge is very noticeable. I'm interested to know what the design principle of this and how it affects the ride as I haven't had a board like this before?

This allows the water to leave cleanly the board in planing mode. You get less drag but less hold. It is useful on "shortboard" designs because at high speed, the provided hold is not worth the drag. Plus you add a cleaner release for looseness in turns. It is the opposite for retro longboards, where both the drag and hold are beneficial to stay locked in the curl.

The low volume rail and low rail line gives you also more hold at speed, since you can dig the rail deeper, and the rail is more effective to "grab" into the water in the rail part where the water is not leaving the board (everywhere apart the tail section)

Thanks colas, re fins- you think it's just the side fins that are causing it? The owner said he has sanded the centre fin but sides have been untouched.

re. Rails that's also interesting. I've never seen of felt a board before that had a hard / tucked under rail literally all the way from the nose to tail rather than soft / round rail until about the front fin + / - where it turns knifey.
i really noticed both of those design features immediately on the wave. The looseness was very instant, you could just flick the board around and felt like a shortboard. Although when in some more hollow curls I did feel it didn't hold like my normal board. Sometimes it almost seemed to get carried up the face which others it wouldn't grip as my normal board does, but after a few waves I could just pull it back down and go vertical again which it loves to do!!
Not sure how it would go in more Tubey style waves that are bigger?
Or maybe it will help it stay loose in bigger faster stuff? It's likely going to be around 1.5x overhead at my local tomorrow so will take it for a spin. See how it gets on with a lot of water movement!

Any trailing edge can whistle: side or center fins, foil mast and wings, etc...

If I recall well, this down rail + tucked under edge all the way was pioneered by Dick Brewer in Hawaii in the seventies(*), and it allowed the new generation of riders, among them Gerry Lopez, to revolutionize tube riding, and surfing in general. See "The Down rail" in
www.surfer.com/unsung-essentials/ It should definitely be at home fin fast powerful waves, it was created for these kind of conditions.

Since then, shapers have played with mixing up+softer rails in the front/middle for forgiveness and down+edge rails in the tail for speed and release. The down rails and the edge have become one of the many ingredients shapers use in the compromise that is a surf board.

(*) Or maybe it was Mike Hynson, also in Hawaii in the seventies? www.swaylocks.com/groups/mike-hynson-and-down-rail

Review no, 2!
Got to take the board out in 1.9m 20sec swell period on-shore at my local tonight. A really good test of size, wind and choppy water!
Surprisingly the board went a lot easier than expected! It's strange, it sits literally under the water so any chop just sinks the rails even further but it feels very easy to counter-balance and pull it back out when fully tilted over. Just a bit slower to get up to speed when paddling on to waves than what i'm used to. I'm genuinely shocked I can ride a board this small so comfortably in windy chop! Managed to get out back without even getting wet!

I caught a few proper overhead west coast waves and surprised a few surfers after doing a few good bottom and top turns.
The board feels like a surfboard, quite effortless to move and you don't feel like you're man-handling it in big turns.

I do notice what some people say about the wider nose- I nose pearled again it tonight which never happens to me. It's strange in that it that it actually have quite a lot of rocker but still catches the nose sometimes which I don't have on my other boards? I couldn't help but thinking a touch more nose rocker, maybe reduce the nose width by an inch, add 0.5" in board width or similar, would make it slightly more safe overall but still stable and performancy?

Hi Benjl so what are the exact dimensions of your board? the Volume ? & what is the weight of it ?:-)

Hi John, it's 93.5L. 8'0 x 27 3/4 x 4 i think. Not entirely sure of the weight but I think about 7kg? It's not super light like some full carbons but it does feel strong and I believe the build quality is geared more at longevity and quality than the lightest board.

It actually feels as if not more stable than my old 8'2 x 28 x 105l board

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benjl said..

Surprisingly the board went a lot easier than expected! It's strange, it sits literally under the water so any chop just sinks the rails even further but it feels very easy to counter-balance and pull it back out when fully tilted over. [...] I nose pearled again it tonight which never happens to me.

For the balance, yes, too much volume feels corky in chop. You experienced how a low volume board sitting under the surface is less sensitive to chop.

Nose pearling, I guess it is like will all new boards, you have to adapt to it. Just move this back foot further back!

yeah the balance point is an interesting one- it seems like I need to stand quite far forward on it to get good paddle speed but then it gets a bit sketchy on the take off with the nose pressing down in to the wave.
I do vividly remember on one wave where I was so far back my foot actually slipped over the top of the tail arch and was standing on 1 leg for a second while going down the face living on the edge I swear.. manged to stay on the board though and then ride out on of the better waves today.

I haven't really had any good lefts to try it yet (mainly rights) but man this board loves going top to bottom. Just feel like it needs a bit of extra nose rocker to really nail the re-entries. On this board for some reason I keep finding myself getting caught up in the lip as it's a bout to fold and then having to kind of air drop back down

Sounds brilliant !
Great write up, enjoyed reading that.

Board looks fantastic, certainly a board for the likes of me that one..

Cheers sunnybouy! I'm taking it out again in bigger point break surf so will put it through its paces again. Has anyone tried this board as a quad?

ive also messaged Dylan about some suggestions for possible tweaks to it as a custom so will keep you posted.

Im loving the tucked under rails, makes the board both fast and loose!
definitely an expertly crafted and finely balanced board design