I didn't mention the Style and foil board...

Yes, it is a problem...

Not sure I understand why one would propose the Acid for small, softer waves, given the Sunova description:

GENERAL GOAL | THEME OF THE BOARDA high performance board for sucky waves...
WAVE TYPE ||| SIZE IT'S WORKING BESTSucky bowly waves.. ||| From chest high up to head and a half, maybe a little more in the right conditions...MANEUVERS IT DOES BESTPocket snaps and getting vert.
SKILL LEVEL IT'S BEST FORAdvanced to Pro..PADDLE POWERSPEED: Decent speed for a performance board..DIRECTIONAL CONTROL: Quite a good paddler with minimal yaw for the outline..OVER WHITE WATER: Great nose flip to help lift the board up the white-water, enough mid width to float you over the soup..WAVE CATCHING ABILITY: Spins easily, plenty of mid board surface area to help lift the board onto the plane. The flip kick reduced area in the nose and tucked rail handles late drops with ease..WHAT YOU THOUGHT OF WHEN YOU DESIGNED IT?The Goal was to focus on performance in suckier waves, something that could surf tighter in the pocket and get rail to rail faster, that didn't feel over sized.WHAT IS POSSIBLY COMPROMISES ON THEN?With the focus on juice, it doesn't like soft open waves with drawn out turns, unless you're riding an oversize version.

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billekrub said..
Not sure I understand why one would propose the Acid for small, softer waves, given the Sunova description:

GENERAL GOAL | THEME OF THE BOARDA high performance board for sucky waves...
WAVE TYPE ||| SIZE IT'S WORKING BESTSucky bowly waves.. ||| From chest high up to head and a half, maybe a little more in the right conditions...MANEUVERS IT DOES BESTPocket snaps and getting vert.
SKILL LEVEL IT'S BEST FORAdvanced to Pro..PADDLE POWERSPEED: Decent speed for a performance board..DIRECTIONAL CONTROL: Quite a good paddler with minimal yaw for the outline..OVER WHITE WATER: Great nose flip to help lift the board up the white-water, enough mid width to float you over the soup..WAVE CATCHING ABILITY: Spins easily, plenty of mid board surface area to help lift the board onto the plane. The flip kick reduced area in the nose and tucked rail handles late drops with ease..WHAT YOU THOUGHT OF WHEN YOU DESIGNED IT?The Goal was to focus on performance in suckier waves, something that could surf tighter in the pocket and get rail to rail faster, that didn't feel over sized.WHAT IS POSSIBLY COMPROMISES ON THEN?With the focus on juice, it doesn't like soft open waves with drawn out turns, unless you're riding an oversize version.

That's a fair question... as it does seem like an unlikely "fun shape"

"WHAT IS POSSIBLY COMPROMISES ON THEN?
With the focus on juice, it doesn't like soft open waves with drawn out turns, unless you're riding an oversize version."
( I may actually have written that line, in the Acid description)

I always ride and recommend an oversize version of the Acid for small waves.

Funny thing is, I never use my Acids in sucky, powerful OH waves... I always grab a Creek for that.

I find the Acid particularly good in small waves,
The nose is so light and thin, that it is super easy to snap around in low power surf.
My 9'4 is fairly wide and easily glides over weak waves, with an easy rail line to "pump" for speed.

BUT..... my Acids are my tippiest boards.
I don't use them in chop... and never in winter gear.

Acids are not easy boards, I work hard on my 9'4.
They require a good skill set,
or ride a much larger size than you normally do.....
my 8'10 Flow is way more stable than my 9'4 Acid.... as shown in my "Sunova stability test" video.

I am 65kg (70kg) and recently bought a used 9'1 Acid for a very good price. Used once in small stuff. I never go in anything bigger than 3ft and am a dud intermediate . The board is way to big for me in theory . However it has excellent stability but also twitchy which is exactly what I want . It manoeuvres easily. It is also surprisingly a very good paddler.
Caught fat weak waves pretty well given its design. Early days but I think it is a good addition to my 88 Speeed.
I reckon I would have got the 810 but maybe I got lucky .

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Hoppo3228 said..
Hey Guys,

I'm looking to add to my quiver a small wave performance board and have narrowed it to a few boards.

Sunova Flow - 8'10"
JL Super Frank - 8'6" lean
Infinity RNB or B Line - 8'5" / 8'8"

I'm usually between 105-108kg... trying to get down! haha

The board will be mostly for everyday conditions (beach/point mostly with the occasional reef break). Surfing up to about 1.5x OH.

I have owned a Sunova Speed / Creek / Skate and JL World Wide and all weren't really what I was looking for... the JL was the closest to what I like.

Has anybody surfed a couple of them to offer a comparison? It's basically impossible to get a demo down here in Vic for these boards.

Cheers.,

Since no one has commented on the JL super frank I thought I would give my 2 cents worth. I have both the the 8'10 Flow and the JL super frank wide 8'0. Since buying the JL the flow hasn't been ridden as I mainly surf smallish waves up to 3 ft and most of the time fat and slow. The JL just rips these waves apart with plenty of speed, loose and heaps of fun. The stability of the JL is fantastic compared to my flow and is perfect for my 87kg. I would recommend the 8'0 wide over the 8'6 lean for your weight, only 3 litres less, and it would give you more of a shortboard surfability. These boards rip.

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philthyphil said..

Hoppo3228 said..
Hey Guys,

I'm looking to add to my quiver a small wave performance board and have narrowed it to a few boards.

Sunova Flow - 8'10"
JL Super Frank - 8'6" lean
Infinity RNB or B Line - 8'5" / 8'8"

I'm usually between 105-108kg... trying to get down! haha

The board will be mostly for everyday conditions (beach/point mostly with the occasional reef break). Surfing up to about 1.5x OH.

I have owned a Sunova Speed / Creek / Skate and JL World Wide and all weren't really what I was looking for... the JL was the closest to what I like.

Has anybody surfed a couple of them to offer a comparison? It's basically impossible to get a demo down here in Vic for these boards.

Cheers.,

Since no one has commented on the JL super frank I thought I would give my 2 cents worth. I have both the the 8'10 Flow and the JL super frank wide 8'0. Since buying the JL the flow hasn't been ridden as I mainly surf smallish waves up to 3 ft and most of the time fat and slow. The JL just rips these waves apart with plenty of speed, loose and heaps of fun. The stability of the JL is fantastic compared to my flow and is perfect for my 87kg. I would recommend the 8'0 wide over the 8'6 lean for your weight, only 3 litres less, and it would give you more of a shortboard surfability. These boards rip.

These look like interesting boards. I really am considering one for summer.

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billekrub said..
Not sure I understand why one would propose the Acid for small, softer waves, given the Sunova description:

GENERAL GOAL | THEME OF THE BOARDA high performance board for sucky waves...
WAVE TYPE ||| SIZE IT'S WORKING BESTSucky bowly waves.. ||| From chest high up to head and a half, maybe a little more in the right conditions...MANEUVERS IT DOES BESTPocket snaps and getting vert.
SKILL LEVEL IT'S BEST FORAdvanced to Pro..PADDLE POWERSPEED: Decent speed for a performance board..DIRECTIONAL CONTROL: Quite a good paddler with minimal yaw for the outline..OVER WHITE WATER: Great nose flip to help lift the board up the white-water, enough mid width to float you over the soup..WAVE CATCHING ABILITY: Spins easily, plenty of mid board surface area to help lift the board onto the plane. The flip kick reduced area in the nose and tucked rail handles late drops with ease..WHAT YOU THOUGHT OF WHEN YOU DESIGNED IT?The Goal was to focus on performance in suckier waves, something that could surf tighter in the pocket and get rail to rail faster, that didn't feel over sized.WHAT IS POSSIBLY COMPROMISES ON THEN?With the focus on juice, it doesn't like soft open waves with drawn out turns, unless you're riding an oversize version.

I bought my original Acid because I was going to the Maldives. But then I used it in Westernport (Pt Leo, Andos, etc.) and the Prom that gets some fat, slow waves, and Big Left, which gets bigger waves, but still pretty fat. It is great for me in all those conditions. If the waves are really small and boring I will grab the speed and cruse down the line, but otherwise it is the Acid. Maybe my brain is tuned into the Acid, but I don't find it tippy. 94 Kg, 9'1 125L if it is lumpy or I need help to catch the wave, or it is the 8'10 115L. Sorry for repeating myself, but I wanted to answer this direct question.

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philthyphil said..

Hoppo3228 said..
Hey Guys,

I'm looking to add to my quiver a small wave performance board and have narrowed it to a few boards.

Sunova Flow - 8'10"
JL Super Frank - 8'6" lean
Infinity RNB or B Line - 8'5" / 8'8"

I'm usually between 105-108kg... trying to get down! haha

The board will be mostly for everyday conditions (beach/point mostly with the occasional reef break). Surfing up to about 1.5x OH.

I have owned a Sunova Speed / Creek / Skate and JL World Wide and all weren't really what I was looking for... the JL was the closest to what I like.

Has anybody surfed a couple of them to offer a comparison? It's basically impossible to get a demo down here in Vic for these boards.

Cheers.,

Since no one has commented on the JL super frank I thought I would give my 2 cents worth. I have both the the 8'10 Flow and the JL super frank wide 8'0. Since buying the JL the flow hasn't been ridden as I mainly surf smallish waves up to 3 ft and most of the time fat and slow. The JL just rips these waves apart with plenty of speed, loose and heaps of fun. The stability of the JL is fantastic compared to my flow and is perfect for my 87kg. I would recommend the 8'0 wide over the 8'6 lean for your weight, only 3 litres less, and it would give you more of a shortboard surfability. These boards rip.

Thanks Phil, Exactly what I wanted to hear.

I did try a JP surf wide demo 8'8' a few weeks ago (as I could get a demo), in theory it is a similar board to the JL SF... it was great on sucky beachies but it just didn't go on fatter waves IMO.

Thanks for the comments guys. I appreciate the help.

What is interesting to me is that if you follow the blurb on the Sunova website and Bert's video's, the Flow is the board I should be buying - down to the letter - however, everybody that has used a Flow/Flash/Acid has said to buy an Acid, which in theory is suited to a completely different wave.

I understand the 'oversized' comments, however - shouldn't a smaller board, designed exactly for the conditions perform better than a significantly larger board designed for a completely different wave? From the comments about the Sunova's so far, you'd say no.

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scott mckerc said..

Hoppo3228 said..

Souwester said..
Ripper vids Hilly, don't know why I never noticed it before but your footwork is interesting, I have been struggling of late but noticed you have your back foot on the inside of the rail and it then moves around with the turns.

Reckon I will give that a go on the weekend.

Souwester,
moving the back foot towards the inside rail at the end of a snap/turn brings the board around so much easier. Once you 'get' it, you'll never not do it.

Thanks for the info on the RNB.

Hilly,
Thanks for the vids etc. pumping in the first one!

Board will be more for conditions like the 2nd video - size wise. But mostly fatter conditions - think rolling points or high tide reefs... I did originally think about including the Hipster Twin as it sounded exactly like what i'm looking for....fast and drivey... but have heard mixed reports on durability of the boards. I also asked my local Smik dealer for a demo and they said no...they don't have any demo's... I know you were very much a Sunova guy (prevously JL), but now are all over Smik... I guess there is a reason for that - obviously Scotty's shapes work.

What size are you on and what does it weigh? Thanks mate

There's an 8'10 hipster down at jacks boards (psup)at mornington peninsula if you want to give it a crack

Thanks Scotty! I'll give him a buzz.

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robdog said..
Hoppo I'm in Torquay and have a SMIK 9'5" custom hipster twin which you are welcome to have a go on. I love it.
Pm me.

Thanks Robdog, i'll be in touch. I met you a couple of weeks ago at Bells..

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Hoppo3228 said..
Thanks for the comments guys. I appreciate the help.

What is interesting to me is that if you follow the blurb on the Sunova website and Bert's video's, the Flow is the board I should be buying - down to the letter - however, everybody that has used a Flow/Flash/Acid has said to buy an Acid, which in theory is suited to a completely different wave.

I understand the 'oversized' comments, however - shouldn't a smaller board, designed exactly for the conditions perform better than a significantly larger board designed for a completely different wave? From the comments about the Sunova's so far, you'd say no.

I'm a big fan of the 120 litre 8'7 flow ,its a yee ha board ...a little small for me in chop ,but when its glassy ,its a ripper as a quad.
i find the 8,10 to wide in the tail for my weight .

Select to expand quote

Hoppo3228 said..
Thanks for the comments guys. I appreciate the help.

What is interesting to me is that if you follow the blurb on the Sunova website and Bert's video's, the Flow is the board I should be buying - down to the letter - however, everybody that has used a Flow/Flash/Acid has said to buy an Acid, which in theory is suited to a completely different wave.

I understand the 'oversized' comments, however - shouldn't a smaller board, designed exactly for the conditions perform better than a significantly larger board designed for a completely different wave? From the comments about the Sunova's so far, you'd say no.

And so the quest for the right board continues - gets confusing doesn't it hence why it would seem we all end up with a number of boards and some seem to sit in the garage too much........but we don't want to be sitting in our arm chairs when we're 80 wondering I'm also looking at my next board too - so many choices

I'll throw some comments in on this, as I've tried the 8'7" Flow, JP Super Frank, and a JP Surf Wide as someone mentioned. I'm quite a bit lighter than you (80 kg) so it's a bit hard to relate, so keep that in mind. Small waves I break into 2 categories (based on what we have generally) - longboard waves, those knee to waist, small long period or gentle rollers, or wind swell in the waist+ range that are quick little bumps. For the purposes here, I'll go with a board evaluation of the latter.

-8'7" Flow - had two sessions on it in waist to stomach high waves, nice board, great build, love the finish on the Sunova's. It was setup as a quad with a nubster, the rails felt nice cutting through the wave, but I wouldn't necessarily use it in smallish surf.

7'4" JP Surf Wide - I had one of these for about a year and used it on small surf. It's pretty stable to be so short, but it yaw'ed really badly paddling for a wave. I ended up selling it because of this.

7'6" JP Super Frank Lean - I just got this board about 2 weeks ago, and I absolutely love it. I thought 100L would be tough, but it's super stable, and even the lean is 29.5" wide. The bottom is a lot flatter than the JP Surf Wide, and it does not yaw like the Surf Wide. It instantly makes you a better rider because you can get to the stomp pad so quick on these little waves and then it has the speed based on the bottom to carry the sections. I'd go as short as you can, so maybe the 8' wide? Very light in the standard (non-carbon) build.

My opinion is to go as short as you can to keep stability, because the gains from having a shorter board come quick.

Thanks Adamj!

Exactly the feedback i'm after.

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adamj2281 said..
I'll throw some comments in on this, as I've tried the 8'7" Flow, JP Super Frank, and a JP Surf Wide as someone mentioned. I'm quite a bit lighter than you (80 kg) so it's a bit hard to relate, so keep that in mind. Small waves I break into 2 categories (based on what we have generally) - longboard waves, those knee to waist, small long period or gentle rollers, or wind swell in the waist+ range that are quick little bumps. For the purposes here, I'll go with a board evaluation of the latter.

-8'7" Flow - had two sessions on it in waist to stomach high waves, nice board, great build, love the finish on the Sunova's. It was setup as a quad with a nubster, the rails felt nice cutting through the wave, but I wouldn't necessarily use it in smallish surf.

7'4" JP Surf Wide - I had one of these for about a year and used it on small surf. It's pretty stable to be so short, but it yaw'ed really badly paddling for a wave. I ended up selling it because of this.

7'6" JP Super Frank Lean - I just got this board about 2 weeks ago, and I absolutely love it. I thought 100L would be tough, but it's super stable, and even the lean is 29.5" wide. The bottom is a lot flatter than the JP Surf Wide, and it does not yaw like the Surf Wide. It instantly makes you a better rider because you can get to the stomp pad so quick on these little waves and then it has the speed based on the bottom to carry the sections. I'd go as short as you can, so maybe the 8' wide? Very light in the standard (non-carbon) build.

My opinion is to go as short as you can to keep stability, because the gains from having a shorter board come quick.

I didn't know jp had SF model board?
I heard someone here at 85kg+ doing ok on the 7'6"?29.5 SF, some ppl just have great balance.

Under 30 wide is a good thing IMO. Worth 2c

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JEG said..

adamj2281 said..
I'll throw some comments in on this, as I've tried the 8'7" Flow, JP Super Frank, and a JP Surf Wide as someone mentioned. I'm quite a bit lighter than you (80 kg) so it's a bit hard to relate, so keep that in mind. Small waves I break into 2 categories (based on what we have generally) - longboard waves, those knee to waist, small long period or gentle rollers, or wind swell in the waist+ range that are quick little bumps. For the purposes here, I'll go with a board evaluation of the latter.

-8'7" Flow - had two sessions on it in waist to stomach high waves, nice board, great build, love the finish on the Sunova's. It was setup as a quad with a nubster, the rails felt nice cutting through the wave, but I wouldn't necessarily use it in smallish surf.

7'4" JP Surf Wide - I had one of these for about a year and used it on small surf. It's pretty stable to be so short, but it yaw'ed really badly paddling for a wave. I ended up selling it because of this.

7'6" JP Super Frank Lean - I just got this board about 2 weeks ago, and I absolutely love it. I thought 100L would be tough, but it's super stable, and even the lean is 29.5" wide. The bottom is a lot flatter than the JP Surf Wide, and it does not yaw like the Surf Wide. It instantly makes you a better rider because you can get to the stomp pad so quick on these little waves and then it has the speed based on the bottom to carry the sections. I'd go as short as you can, so maybe the 8' wide? Very light in the standard (non-carbon) build.

My opinion is to go as short as you can to keep stability, because the gains from having a shorter board come quick.

I didn't know jp had SF model board?
I heard someone here at 85kg+ doing ok on the 7'6"?29.5 SF, some ppl just have great balance.

I meant JL, yeah, I'm perfectly fine on the 7'6 lean - I could go smaller. It's more stable than the 7'4" JP Surf Wide that was 10L more and 1.5" wider.

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philthyphil said..

Hoppo3228 said..
Hey Guys,

I'm looking to add to my quiver a small wave performance board and have narrowed it to a few boards.

Sunova Flow - 8'10"
JL Super Frank - 8'6" lean
Infinity RNB or B Line - 8'5" / 8'8"

I'm usually between 105-108kg... trying to get down! haha

The board will be mostly for everyday conditions (beach/point mostly with the occasional reef break). Surfing up to about 1.5x OH.

I have owned a Sunova Speed / Creek / Skate and JL World Wide and all weren't really what I was looking for... the JL was the closest to what I like.

Has anybody surfed a couple of them to offer a comparison? It's basically impossible to get a demo down here in Vic for these boards.

Cheers.,

Since no one has commented on the JL super frank I thought I would give my 2 cents worth. I have both the the 8'10 Flow and the JL super frank wide 8'0. Since buying the JL the flow hasn't been ridden as I mainly surf smallish waves up to 3 ft and most of the time fat and slow. The JL just rips these waves apart with plenty of speed, loose and heaps of fun. The stability of the JL is fantastic compared to my flow and is perfect for my 87kg. I would recommend the 8'0 wide over the 8'6 lean for your weight, only 3 litres less, and it would give you more of a shortboard surfability. These boards rip.

When getting on the wave is a challenge, the shorter length should be a disability, no? Can you catch a slow wave before it becomes critical by accelerating the 8 footer? How early? With some offshore wind?

Select to expand quote

billekrub said..

philthyphil said..

Hoppo3228 said..
Hey Guys,

I'm looking to add to my quiver a small wave performance board and have narrowed it to a few boards.

Sunova Flow - 8'10"
JL Super Frank - 8'6" lean
Infinity RNB or B Line - 8'5" / 8'8"

I'm usually between 105-108kg... trying to get down! haha

The board will be mostly for everyday conditions (beach/point mostly with the occasional reef break). Surfing up to about 1.5x OH.

I have owned a Sunova Speed / Creek / Skate and JL World Wide and all weren't really what I was looking for... the JL was the closest to what I like.

Has anybody surfed a couple of them to offer a comparison? It's basically impossible to get a demo down here in Vic for these boards.

Cheers.,

Since no one has commented on the JL super frank I thought I would give my 2 cents worth. I have both the the 8'10 Flow and the JL super frank wide 8'0. Since buying the JL the flow hasn't been ridden as I mainly surf smallish waves up to 3 ft and most of the time fat and slow. The JL just rips these waves apart with plenty of speed, loose and heaps of fun. The stability of the JL is fantastic compared to my flow and is perfect for my 87kg. I would recommend the 8'0 wide over the 8'6 lean for your weight, only 3 litres less, and it would give you more of a shortboard surfability. These boards rip.

When getting on the wave is a challenge, the shorter length should be a disability, no? Can you catch a slow wave before it becomes critical by accelerating the 8 footer? How early? With some offshore wind?

Yes the shorter the board the less glide and therefore does become harder to catch a wave. But the JL does have a decent amount of volume for the length of the board and so sits a bit higher in the water which helps speed up the process when paddling for a wave. I find also the JL copes with late take offs easily and with adequate nose rocker stops the nose from nose diving.

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billekrub said..
When getting on the wave is a challenge, the shorter length should be a disability, no? Can you catch a slow wave before it becomes critical by accelerating the 8 footer? How early? With some offshore wind?

Wow, 8 foot is much too long - or too short - for a small wave board :-)

Basically for really small waves boards (smaller than the waves in the videos at the start of the post), you want either a longboard shape or a very short one. It is based on the planing speed of boards, which depends on their length.

Small waves are slow, so by using a longboard you are able to ride in displacement mode (its planing speed is higher than the wave speed). Or by using a short enough board, with a planing speed that is lower than the wave speed. Then you need width for the planing to generate enough lift force for your weight.

Taking off with a short board is not done by accelerating with the paddle. You just wait to give one or two hard paddle stroke at the proper time, and use your body weight to rock/pop/tilt the board into the wave. Just like you do not take off in the same way in prone surfing longboards or shortboards.

Here are some examples with 6'8" / 6'10" 125 liters boards for my 100kg, on SMALL slow waves:

Wow, SUPette tour de force. You do demonstrate how it should be done!!!! Thank you. Have watched them twice already.

Thx for the vids Colas.

I wasn't thinking waves that small.... if I was surfing that, i'd be on my longboard...

Thinking more chest/head high+

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Hoppo3228 said..
I wasn't thinking waves that small....

Yup, that's why I didn't post earlier.
But basically for head-high waves, everything works.

Select to expand quote

Hoppo3228 said..
Thx for the vids Colas.

I wasn't thinking waves that small.... if I was surfing that, i'd be on my longboard...

Thinking more chest/head high+

Hoppo,

Would you explain why you would be on your longboard for waves that small instead of on a short wide board more like Colas? Or, how the board choice suits your goal and style? Which are?

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billekrub said..

Hoppo3228 said..
Thx for the vids Colas.

I wasn't thinking waves that small.... if I was surfing that, i'd be on my longboard...

Thinking more chest/head high+

Hoppo,

Would you explain why you would be on your longboard for waves that small instead of on a short wide board more like Colas? Or, how the board choice suits your goal and style? Which are?

I would'nt be out in small period stuff like that at all... maybe the last video is closer to realistic.

If it was wait high peelers, the glide of a narrow longboard is what I think is best about riding a SUP. Smooth and stylish. Look at the DOGMAN here:



This post was originally put up for around head high-ish stuff that I can surf in a high peformance way.

Here's Rog - DOGMAN at one of my local breaks a while ago:

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billekrub said..
Would you explain why you would be on your longboard for waves that small instead of on a short wide board more like Colas?

Interestingly, on the day before my last vid, in similar conditions, I was on a longSUP 9'3" x 27.5" x 118L
https://gongsupshop.com/epages/box1707.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectPath=%2FShops%2Fbox1707%2FProducts%2FGON7SUPMOBLO93SPPRO

It was also fun. The longSUP has more glide, can make longer sections, plus you can cross-step, noseride, drop knee turn, ... But the short SUP have a kick-in-the pants addictive acceleration. Depends on the mood, but by taste I often prefer the short one.

And while we are at it, on the same kind of bumpy small waves as my last vid above, yesterday session on my medium waves board (for waist/chest to 1.5/2 x times overhead) board: a bit the same shape, but less volume (105L instead of 125L), a bit longer by 5" at 7'3" and narrower by 1.75" at 29.75", and a slightly more pulled in tail. This would be my "small wave ripper" choice for the conditions described by Hoppo3228 in his original post:




Note how I can go far up on the nose during take off. This is why I like these semi-tomo noses, you can still take off easily in difficult conditions (waves either fading of jacking up), but more by footwork and body english than sheer paddle speed.

This was tonight... with some bigger sets coming through...exactly the conditions I am looking for a smaller board for...

Pic by Dean Snow

nice little wave ..my 8,7 flow will love those waves .

or the 9,1 acid