Hoping to get some ideas from experienced members
I am 65 and early intermediate surfer..150 lbs/ 68 kg
Surf my local US East Coast beachbreak all the time..South Carolina smaller waves and mostly weak waves. I have 2 boards .
1. Jimmy Lewis Super Frank that I love and very nice in small mushy conditions but I feel like I will outgrow it in next year..8x30 ..115 L
2. Infinity RNB that I got a few months ago.7'11" x 29" ..98L

I definitely need more time on the RNB .love it on clean days but not stable at all standing out back on choppy days ( very often conditions here)

I am wondering about something that would be little more nimble than my SuperFrank but more stable than my RNB and specifically for small , short period windswell wave days that make up 75% of my surf days.

I dont enjoy longboard shape / length..just not my cup of tea.

Was wondering about L41 ST type board ?
I also thought about Sunova SP 25 or Infinity Wide Speed for something different to what I have? I was a prone surfer many years ago in South Africa and still like shorter boards that can turn from further forward on board but that makes choices too limited I know!
not many Sups where I live so getting a used one is very difficult and demo is impossible. I made a few expensive mistakes early in my surfing and need as much as possible to make s " safe" choice

I can get L41 shipped here and Infinity is available withing reasonsble driving distance.

After posting this message I had a good discussion with experienced sup surfer in my area. His advice:
Keep surfing the Jimmy Lewis SF to 1) Improve skills 2) use on rough choppy days; and use RNB as often as possible and get comfortable on it in chop. My current boards are good for our conditions. Instead of chasing another board rather focus on becoming better surfer on current boards.

Probably the right approach and leave the excitement of a different board for later in my progession

Agree with your second post.

For future reference, at 68kg you would float easily on a 85L board - so you could go a lot smaller if you want to.

For these conditions I like boards such as the Smik Hipster Twin, Sunova SP25, Sunova Skate, Sunova Ghost, Starboard Hypernut and a Superfrank in a smaller size. There is no bad choice among these, just getting the size right is the trick.

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Hoppo3228 said..
Agree with your second post.

For future reference, at 68kg you would float easily on a 85L board - so you could go a lot smaller if you want to.

For these conditions I like boards such as the Smik Hipster Twin, Sunova SP25, Sunova Skate, Sunova Ghost, Starboard Hypernut and a Superfrank in a smaller size. There is no bad choice among these, just getting the size right is the trick.

Thank you. I will keep this list for future.
On the size issue..I'm not sure how much of a factor age is.. I do find my balance starts going bad after about 2 hours in choppy conditions. That's when my 98L RNB becomes really tippy

Age does play into it... though it really depends how radical you want to surf. For every size down in a board, there is a big step up in performance - if you can unlock it.

Rick (supthecreek) has done videos on comparing differing sizes of boards and how they surf. Yes Rick is a bit heavier than you (sorry Rick!), but the same rules apply.

2 hrs isn't a bad session for anyone. I can only do that or longer on a bigger board - to be honest my shoulders are spent well before my balance is usually.

I would go out on the RNB first, then when you begin falling in from getting tired, come in, swap over to the SF and go back out. It'll help get used to longer sessions.

It's always handy having a board in the quiver that can handle choppier conditions.

From what you describe, you want a short and wide-at-the-tips board.
It will provide nimbleness, stability in chop, and acceleration in weak waves.

In the Infinity line, the Escape Pod seems to be your ideal board.
I do not known the L41 line, but many board seem to fit your bill. I am personally in favor of semi-sounded nose as I find square noses plow in chop. This would mean the ST or the Popdart?

Something in the 7'6" x 30"/31" range, 85/95 liters?

I don't know much about the boards you have described and as far as more practice on your board's its sound advice.
However, I have the 8'8 Sunova SP25 and I love it. I weigh about 95kg and this board is stable and catches waves in all conditions.
If you can watch Rick [Sup Creek] on his Sp25 and that will give you some ideas.
Best of luck
Stevo.

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Hoppo3228 said..
Age does play into it... though it really depends how radical you want to surf. For every size down in a board, there is a big step up in performance - if you can unlock it.

Rick (supthecreek) has done videos on comparing differing sizes of boards and how they surf. Yes Rick is a bit heavier than you (sorry Rick!), but the same rules apply.

2 hrs isn't a bad session for anyone. I can only do that or longer on a bigger board - to be honest my shoulders are spent well before my balance is usually.

I would go out on the RNB first, then when you begin falling in from getting tired, come in, swap over to the SF and go back out. It'll help get used to longer sessions.

It's always handy having a board in the quiver that can handle choppier conditions.

Thanks for your advice. I can see how alternating between two boards in same session could really help my progression with the smaller board. Cheers!

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colas said..
From what you describe, you want a short and wide-at-the-tips board.
It will provide nimbleness, stability in chop, and acceleration in weak waves.

In the Infinity line, the Escape Pod seems to be your ideal board.
I do not known the L41 line, but many board seem to fit your bill. I am personally in favor of semi-sounded nose as I find square noses plow in chop. This would mean the ST or the Popdart?

Something in the 7'6" x 30"/31" range, 85/95 liters?

Thank you Colas. I've been following many of your posts regarding shorter wider boards for smaller wave conditions. Great information That's what got me looking at the L41 Split Tail. The L41 ST is made as a quad setup but I have seen a few photos where Kirk McGinty also made a twin fin SUP. The Infinity Escape Pod that you mentioned is a twin. Do you have any advice on twin vs quad boards in that 7'6" x 30" range for smaller beachbreak like I have here?

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scsuperfrank said..
Do you have any advice on twin vs quad boards in that 7'6" x 30" range for smaller beachbreak like I have here?

I loved twins when I was prone surfing.
Compared to quads, twins:
- are faster and nimbler, especially great on small beach breaks
- have less control in power (especially backside). But adding a center box to put a nubster or a small trailer helps a lot
- are more sensitive to rider input (pushing on your leg is spread among the 4 fins on a quad, whereas twins have a more definite balance point wrt fins)
- Quobba do not make twin fins :-(

This said the Infinity Escape Pod seem to have the fin boxes quite far back, thus adding control to the twin fin behavior. And adding a central box is easily done by any shop.

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colas said..

scsuperfrank said..
Do you have any advice on twin vs quad boards in that 7'6" x 30" range for smaller beachbreak like I have here?

I loved twins when I was prone surfing.
Compared to quads, twins:
- are faster and nimbler, especially great on small beach breaks
- have less control in power (especially backside). But adding a center box to put a nubster or a small trailer helps a lot
- are more sensitive to rider input (pushing on your leg is spread among the 4 fins on a quad, whereas twins have a more definite balance point wrt fins)
- Quobba do not make twin fins :-(

This said the Infinity Escape Pod seem to have the fin boxes quite far back, thus adding control to the twin fin behavior. And adding a central box is easily done by any shop.

Thanks for a detailed explanation Colas! I appreciate your time sharing your experience.

I am super interested in the Escape Pod, but I don't think I can justify getting one this year with all my other plans.

Hi scsuperfrank,

I looked up your RNB and the width Dave lists on the infinity website 7'11 x 28' at 98 liters... (not 29")
That is quite a bit narrower than your SF 8 x 30 at 115 liters
That would explain why you find it quite a bit less comfortable in chop.

As to your question about age... it is a very big factor when I consult folks about Surf SUPs.
Age alone isn't the defining factor, but fitness and experience have to be blended into the equation
Your current age is also the youngest you will ever be moving forward, so boards should be considered with that in mind.

I designed a spreadsheets that I use on everyone I chat with.
It works out all the "weight to volume" numbers for me so I can evaluate the numbers on all the board in the same place
I made one up for you that I would be happy to share.

Numbers are only numbers.
They have value, but each particular board fits into the numbers differently..... many time with huge differences.

Hoppo mentioned the Ghost and the SP25, but....
I am reluctant to answer every "Which board next" post, because IMO, it is impossible to give useful answers without sounding like a promotion. Please message me if you want to discuss the SP25 and Ghost.... great boards for what you seek!

I surf Garden City, SC a few times a year, so I am very familiar with your conditions.
I'll be passing through again in May or June and would be more than happy to meet you and show you some boards.
My buddy Jack surfs SUP down near Garden City Pier. Super nice guy, you might want to seek him out to share a session!
Please tell him I said hi!!

If possible, I always do a mini demo in Garden City when I visit! (pic)

I wish I had a Rick where I live.

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supthecreek said..
Hi scsuperfrank,

I looked up your RNB and the width Dave lists on the infinity website 7'11 x 28' at 98 liters... (not 29")
That is quite a bit narrower than your SF 8 x 30 at 115 liters
That would explain why you find it quite a bit less comfortable in chop.

As to your question about age... it is a very big factor when I consult folks about Surf SUPs.
Age alone isn't the defining factor, but fitness and experience have to be blended into the equation
Your current age is also the youngest you will ever be moving forward, so boards should be considered with that in mind.

I designed a spreadsheets that I use on everyone I chat with.
It works out all the "weight to volume" numbers for me so I can evaluate the numbers on all the board in the same place
I made one up for you that I would be happy to share.

Numbers are only numbers.
They have value, but each particular board fits into the numbers differently..... many time with huge differences.

Hoppo mentioned the Ghost and the SP25, but....
I am reluctant to answer every "Which board next" post, because IMO, it is impossible to give useful answers without sounding like a promotion. Please message me if you want to discuss the SP25 and Ghost.... great boards for what you seek!

I surf Garden City, SC a few times a year, so I am very familiar with your conditions.
I'll be passing through again in May or June and would be more than happy to meet you and show you some boards.
My buddy Jack surfs SUP down near Garden City Pier. Super nice guy, you might want to seek him out to share a session!
Please tell him I said hi!!

If possible, I always do a mini demo in Garden City when I visit! (pic)

Hi Rick
Thank you for the reply ..
Yep I had a typo ..know that the RNB is 28" . It's actually pretty good for 28" with the fairly parralel rails.
Agree on your age comments I'm blessed with great health and no injuries but can feel it after couple hours in choppy surf. Thanks for letting me know about your Garden City SC stops.. I will stay in touch closer to summer.
Thanks again!

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theSeb said..
I wish I had a Rick where I live.

lol, thanks seb!

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scsuperfrank said..

supthecreek said..
Hi scsuperfrank,

I looked up your RNB and the width Dave lists on the infinity website 7'11 x 28' at 98 liters... (not 29")
That is quite a bit narrower than your SF 8 x 30 at 115 liters
That would explain why you find it quite a bit less comfortable in chop.

As to your question about age... it is a very big factor when I consult folks about Surf SUPs.
Age alone isn't the defining factor, but fitness and experience have to be blended into the equation
Your current age is also the youngest you will ever be moving forward, so boards should be considered with that in mind.

I designed a spreadsheets that I use on everyone I chat with.
It works out all the "weight to volume" numbers for me so I can evaluate the numbers on all the board in the same place
I made one up for you that I would be happy to share.

Numbers are only numbers.
They have value, but each particular board fits into the numbers differently..... many time with huge differences.

Hoppo mentioned the Ghost and the SP25, but....
I am reluctant to answer every "Which board next" post, because IMO, it is impossible to give useful answers without sounding like a promotion. Please message me if you want to discuss the SP25 and Ghost.... great boards for what you seek!

I surf Garden City, SC a few times a year, so I am very familiar with your conditions.
I'll be passing through again in May or June and would be more than happy to meet you and show you some boards.
My buddy Jack surfs SUP down near Garden City Pier. Super nice guy, you might want to seek him out to share a session!
Please tell him I said hi!!

If possible, I always do a mini demo in Garden City when I visit! (pic)

Hi Rick
Thank you for the reply ..
Yep I had a typo ..know that the RNB is 28" . It's actually pretty good for 28" with the fairly parralel rails.
Agree on your age comments I'm blessed with great health and no injuries but can feel it after couple hours in choppy surf. Thanks for letting me know about your Garden City SC stops.. I will stay in touch closer to summer.
Thanks again!

Awesome, I look forward to meeting you!

I have both the L41 ST and the SP 25. They are both great boards. The L41 ST is by far my favorite board of any board I have owned and the SP 25 is also a great board. As such, I highly recommend both boards. Equally, you have two great boards.

You don't say how long you have been Sup Surfing but a right of passage of Sup Surfing is chasing lower volume! Most learn it was a mistake to chase. I changed boards so many times, I lost count. Today, I always prioritize stability when choosing a board. The best advice I ever got is; "volume is your friend".

My advice, keep surfing the Super Frank, ditch the unstable RNB. If anything, if I were you, I would get a higher volume board with a more performance shape and rocker. I am 59. I am done trying to get stable on a board. I think you will be surprised how much performance you can get out of a higher volume board. My SP 25 is 15L more and 7 inches longer than L41. It surfs every bit as well. There is way more to a board than volume.


That said, I would be happy to compare the two boards. The would both perform in your conditions but they are different. I don't think either is going to surf that much better than the Super Frank in "small, short period wind swell." But I do love both my SP25 and my ST.

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castawaycove said..
"volume is your friend".

This is exemplified in the last SUPboarder video: at 75kg, Reuben Ellis went from a 75 liters board to a 92 liters one... and did not look back!
supboardermag.com/2024/01/20/best-board-i-have-used-reuben-reviews-his-new-surf-sup/

(Plus I suspect his switching to Quobba fins is for a lot in his liking of his new board :-) )

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castawaycove said..
I have both the L41 ST and the SP 25. They are both great boards. The L41 ST is by far my favorite board of any board I have owned and the SP 25 is also a great board. As such, I highly recommend both boards. Equally, you have two great boards.

You don't say how long you have been Sup Surfing but a right of passage of Sup Surfing is chasing lower volume! Most learn it was a mistake to chase. I changed boards so many times, I lost count. Today, I always prioritize stability when choosing a board. The best advice I ever got is; "volume is your friend".

My advice, keep surfing the Super Frank, ditch the unstable RNB. If anything, if I were you, I would get a higher volume board with a more performance shape and rocker. I am 59. I am done trying to get stable on a board. I think you will be surprised how much performance you can get out of a higher volume board. My SP 25 is 15L more and 7 inches longer than L41. It surfs every bit as well. There is way more to a board than volume.


That said, I would be happy to compare the two boards. The would both perform in your conditions but they are different. I don't think either is going to surf that much better than the Super Frank in "small, short period wind swell." But I do love both my SP25 and my ST.

Thank you very much for the info. It's great to get the insight of someone who knows the specific boards that I have / considering.

I am only a couple years into sup surfing . Prone surfed when I was much younger.
I have unfortunately made a couple of expensive board mistakes already

unfortunately where I live there are few sup surfers and selling a board means losing a lot of money and also very few used boards available especially in sizes for my weight.

At 150lbs / 69kg the RNB is still a generous 1.45 guild factor for me so I think I will persist with it . I am catching waves on it and love the feel on a wave ..just the standing and waiting in heavier chop that gets tough. I actually caught waves on it from my very first session with it.
I totally get your point about volume being one's friend and I actually really enjoy the Super Frank even though by younger/ more competent surfers' standards it's "way too big for me"

I'm lucky that I can now afford to own a few more boards than I really need and since I started late I want to cram as much fun into however many years I have left...
I would definitely like something very different as a next board so either a more high performance shape like SP25 or a shorter wider simsup style like the L41 ST. Leaning towards latter. Frankly probably should just surf what I have but wanting to experience different type boards is a weakness I have developed.
But I will definitely heed your advice and not chase lower volume especially given my age and limited experience.

You should also be chasing better conditions, that will give you 10x compared to anything else, your not that far from hatteras, Costa Rica, etc.

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scsuperfrank said..
.just the standing and waiting in heavier chop that gets tough.

For a slightly different take.... As long as you're not in an ISA Sup competition, it's totally ok to sit down and rest, instead of constantly standing.

No experience on RNB nor SP25. I agree with the recommendation to use the RNB when the seas are calm and the water is warm. Will help to paddle in surf stance with short high cadence paddle strokes.
Agree with the recommendation to start sessions with RNB, then switch to SF as you get tired. The typical recommendation of volume for an advanced surfer is a gf from 1.3 to 1.8, both of your boards are in the range.
I found that switching to a wetsuit that does not absorb as much water helped extend my sessions, i.e. limestone. I could feel the weight of traditional rubber getting heavier the longer it is in the water. I also found limestone warmer than traditional rubber, so I could go down in thickness and still have the same warmth.
I agree with castawaycove regarding stability. If you aren't stable, your wave count goes down as does your learning curve. As Colas said, you want a short, wide at the tips board. With a board like that, you have similar stability as a pulled in nose board, 6" longer (i.e. SP25)
What fin setup are you using with the SF? I recently tried it as a thruster in head high surf and felt more in control compared to quads. Highly recommend experimenting with fins with the SF. I would hold on to the SF. I wouldn't worry about what others say about volume and performance. If you have fun on the board, then it is the right board. And perhaps even consider adding the more nimble SF 7'6" x 29.5" 100L gf = 1.47 to your wish list in the future.
Where did you land on paddle length compared to your height? Rule of thumb for surfing seems to be: nose height to half a shaka above your head. Going shorter (lower c.o.g.) tends to help in rougher seas.
Kirk's recommendation for a 8' ST 105L for smaller beach break with a gf=1.5 sounds good. You are already used to that length. If you guys get the width right, the switch from the SF should be smooth. I have a 8' ST 129L gf=1.38. The SF is a fun board, but the ST is a step up in performance. If you like late takeoffs, the TV Dinner is something to consider. If you want to ride as a twin, the S5 is fun with the channel bottoms. But if you choose to dip your foot in the L41 pond, a bit of a warning, Kirk's shapes are addictive.

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sflinux said..
No experience on RNB nor SP25. I agree with the recommendation to use the RNB when the seas are calm and the water is warm. Will help to paddle in surf stance with short high cadence paddle strokes.
Agree with the recommendation to start sessions with RNB, then switch to SF as you get tired. The typical recommendation of volume for an advanced surfer is a gf from 1.3 to 1.8, both of your boards are in the range.
I found that switching to a wetsuit that does not absorb as much water helped extend my sessions, i.e. limestone. I could feel the weight of traditional rubber getting heavier the longer it is in the water. I also found limestone warmer than traditional rubber, so I could go down in thickness and still have the same warmth.
I agree with castawaycove regarding stability. If you aren't stable, your wave count goes down as does your learning curve. As Colas said, you want a short, wide at the tips board. With a board like that, you have similar stability as a pulled in nose board, 6" longer (i.e. SP25)
What fin setup are you using with the SF? I recently tried it as a thruster in head high surf and felt more in control compared to quads. Highly recommend experimenting with fins with the SF. I would hold on to the SF. I wouldn't worry about what others say about volume and performance. If you have fun on the board, then it is the right board. And perhaps even consider adding the more nimble SF 7'6" x 29.5" 100L gf = 1.47 to your wish list in the future.
Where did you land on paddle length compared to your height? Rule of thumb for surfing seems to be: nose height to half a shaka above your head. Going shorter (lower c.o.g.) tends to help in rougher seas.
Kirk's recommendation for a 8' ST 105L for smaller beach break with a gf=1.5 sounds good. You are already used to that length. If you guys get the width right, the switch from the SF should be smooth. I have a 8' ST 129L gf=1.38. The SF is a fun board, but the ST is a step up in performance. If you like late takeoffs, the TV Dinner is something to consider. If you want to ride as a twin, the S5 is fun with the channel bottoms. But if you choose to dip your foot in the L41 pond, a bit of a warning, Kirk's shapes are addictive.

Hi,
since my original post I have been surfing the RNB more regularly and now much more stable on it even in 4/3 wetsuit . Biggest thing I noticed once on a wave is that with the 28" width I have to be more careful to keep front foot on stringer otherwise I catch a rail . The RNB is much thinner in front than the SF as you know. Really like the RNB even in smaller beachbreak.

I will definitely keep the SFrank..a very fun board when it's short period windswell .
In the fin setup question..I have surfed it 90% of time as a quad but last couple sessions in waist high faster waves I used C Drive twins with C drive stabilizer..just for fun but turned out very nice! The twin felt good in late takeoffs in hollow beachbreak and still fast. Feels the the C Drive twins were also plenty stable paddling hard for a wave and no problem paddling straight out back also.

My paddle length is middle of forehead. Feels very comfortable and might go even tad shorter.

I did actually have couple of chats with Kirk and his recommendation based on my details and type of surf we have is an ST in the 7'6" x 30" and 110L range. Might seem too similar to SF and RNB but that's the type of board I like ??
Very impressed how well Kirk explained reasoning for board size , model etc. cheers