It may have been touched on before but Gee been watching these pros riding sups like surfboards lately on the net. They absolutely rip on them.

I know they ride small sups and are pros, but what do you think their weight to volume of sup board is?

Kai Lenny ?
Keahi de aboitiz
Beau nixon ?
Geoff breen ?
Sean poynter?

Would be very interested to know how far they push the volume of a board to their weight.

'Pro' weight to volume ratio.

Anyone know??

There is no ratio, if it is, it is negative to 1 ratio,liters/kilo.
My idea of "how far they can push it" is to do SUP shapes with enough buoyancy to paddle on it just before been lift up and down the face with the wave celerity as proned shorty does .
The main purpose is to have optimum reaction from tail/fin planning area for the most and a minimum tail buoyancy for the very minimum part with very thin rails.
So as the board is sinking with just nose off the water while paddle in to take off, these small SUP need a lot more rocker and scoop as shorties to emerge quickly once taking off.
IMO

Ciao Vaz: floatation seem slightly negative (less liters than weights of board+rider+paddle+wetsuit)



You can have a glimpse of the "ratio" by looking at the recording of the live events.

Mo Freitas was definitely sinking to his knees on Day 4 of the ISA event:



I have SUPed lask week mostly on a slightly negative volume board (105 liters for my 98kg = 107kg total: me+gear), but wide (30"), with wide nose and tails (yes... a Tomo shape :-), and I must say it is not as hard at it seemed, much easier than a 125l x 27" board. The low volume was quite helpful in the powerful days at Hossegor, granted the width gave latency to rail-to-rail action, but the low volume made the board easier to handle in the power. But the low volume noticeably kills your paddling speed.

Here are me and a friend, both ~100k, me on a 105l on the left, and he on a 125l on the right




The Pro boards are insanely hard because they are both narrow and low volume.

I have had a few copies / originals of pro's boards.The lowest volume one is 76L for a ~70kg rider. Obviously some of the pros are riding boards in the sub-70L range whilst also weighing 70kg.

I'd guesstimate that MOST pros are in that +5-10% range

At the very least SOME pros are in the negatives, how negative I don't know. I'm guessing also 5-10%, but am not a good source as I have no interest in actually paying for a board like that.

I don't know if any of the pros are above +15%. I rather doubt it. Maybe for specific big wave conditions.

@ Colas,

Given some time to adjust to that volume, it'll be no problem. I'm going to mix terminology here a bit from my previous post and adopt your own more accurate style.

Combined, total weight:volume at +5-10% is the sweet spot in my opinion. There you have paddle power and stability. The board will be partially sunk, giving greater stability due to water resistance on the deck. But not so sunk that it's slow to paddle. It's perfect.

Combined weight:volume at 0-5% is annoying.You're still stable but it paddles slow.

I think that once you spend time on the 0-10% boards, and get adjusted to that stability, you'll be able to run a narrower board than you were at 10%+. That's certainly been my experience. I can ride a 7'6x25 +9% board all day long. But an 8'2x25 @ +19% is a nightmare.

I have nothing to add in terms of recommendations - but as Colas has suggested, do yourself a favor and watch a full heat of the ISA comp and see how bloody hard it is on those little boards for the best in the world! (usually edited out in the vids!)

Cheers for the responses guys. Very interesting.

And yes I've watched a lot of live events before and yes they struggle whilst waiting for the waves but gee they kill them when there on them

Was just interest to see how far they push the the low volumes of their boards to their weight and what they can get away with.

Not only weight/liters ratio must be considered. Aera of board has to be to... because once shortSUP board is getting lift by the wave , water reaction get the board quicky up the surface of the wave. There is a compromise between those to parameters : liters and square meters.
And more "what they can get away with" if the bottom surface of the board is getting concave.
As Casso probably ( he has to confirm it )do while paddling on the nose concave of his Padddle pop

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/DEEP-Oceanboards-74-PaddlePop-Review/?page=3

Not all pros are on super low volume nor super tippy boards.

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JeanG said..
Not all pros are on super low volume nor super tippy boards.

Yes. but most of the really good ones are!

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damo666 said..

JeanG said..
Not all pros are on super low volume nor super tippy boards.

Yes. but most of the really good ones are!

Just need the accurate board to the situation. Same as shortie, it need a quiver!

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damo666 said..

JeanG said..
Not all pros are on super low volume nor super tippy boards.

Yes. but most of the really good ones are!

You might be surprised...

Question...as you go low in volume and width so to fall within the +5-10 of total volume/weight ratio...does a board of equal outline...but lower volume have any less tendency to yaw? Or is there no effect on yaw?

Minimum Volume/Weight ratio as no much tendency to yaw . I mean some volume avoid tendency to yaw but not as much as ratio decrease.
As well some suction from water underneath board bottom and rails contours immersed avoid tendency to yaw.
Definitively enjoy shortSUP but need such energy to stand on .
That's worth the deal.

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rghdc said..
Question...as you go low in volume and width so to fall within the +5-10 of total volume/weight ratio...does a board of equal outline...but lower volume have any less tendency to yaw?

A low volume board have noticeably increased drag. So, it has more row effect if your paddling technique is not good enough.

Using the "nail" metaphor on my post www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/Tips-for-straighter-paddling/
a lower volume board will have a "nail" more firmly anchored in the water. No issue on the yaw if your paddle force goes through the nail, by increased yaw otherwise.

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colas said..

rghdc said..
Question...as you go low in volume and width so to fall within the +5-10 of total volume/weight ratio...does a board of equal outline...but lower volume have any less tendency to yaw?

A low volume board have noticeably increased drag. So, it has more row effect if your paddling technique is not good enough.

Using the "nail" metaphor on my post www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/Tips-for-straighter-paddling/
a lower volume board will have a "nail" more firmly anchored in the water. No issue on the yaw if your paddle force goes through the nail, by increased yaw otherwise.

Your theory make sens on a pointed nose shortSUP.
It's falling apart with Minion or Gulliver Box types of shortSUP shape.
As well when width of board goes under the 27 " for sub 7' length. Drive effect has tendency in a large proportion to disappear on those kind of narrow boards and parallels outlines .

Apparently according to this conversation Archimedes Principle can be violated.

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Kami said..
It's falling apart with Minion or Gulliver Box types of shortSUP shape.
As well when width of board goes under the 27 " for sub 7' length. Drive effect has tendency in a large proportion to disappear on those kind of narrow boards and parallels outlines .

Not exactly, as rghdc was talking off boards with the same shape but lower volume. I can assure you that my "vanguard" shape with low volume definitely has ton of drag... but of course it has nearly no yaw when the board rolls, compared to a pointed shape.

To put in another way: of course vanguard shapes have less yaw, especially the one induced from changes in roll and pitch. But with same shapes, lower volume ones will have more drag, and thus more row effect if the paddling force creates a torque with the drag force

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colas said..

Kami said..
It's falling apart with Minion or Gulliver Box types of shortSUP shape.
As well when width of board goes under the 27 " for sub 7' length. Drive effect has tendency in a large proportion to disappear on those kind of narrow boards and parallels outlines .

Not exactly, as rghdc was talking off boards with the same shape but lower volume. I can assure you that my "vanguard" shape with low volume definitely has ton of drag... but of course it has nearly no yaw when the board rolls, compared to a pointed shape.

To put in another way: of course vanguard shapes have less yaw, especially the one induced from changes in roll and pitch. But with same shapes, lower volume ones will have more drag, and thus more row effect if the paddling force creates a torque with the drag force

I agree with you while paddling on flat.

Purpose of those shortSUp is not paddling on flat but to take off ready to surf the more critical curl earlier as possible .
So the board which provide the more drive while paddling on the crest of the wave make disapear yaw and row effect by the same way.
To come back at Dan83 topic, "Would be very interested to know how far they push the volume of a board to their weight. 'Pro' weight to volume ratio. Anyone know??"

IMO : there is no better ratio than an other one , just a matter how to the board wake up on the wave face while taking off.
So it's mix of volume, outline, volume, rocker etc.... Just a matter how the board has been shaped.

Talking about changes to the same board:


Less volume =


* More overall stability, to a point (more water resistance to distrubances)
* Slower paddling (more water resistance)
* Possibly straighter tracking (more water resistance to left-right movements), but am not sure yet

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JeanG said..
* Possibly straighter tracking (more water resistance to left-right movements), but am not sure yet

I have the same impression, maybe because once underwater, things doesn't change much if the board moves around, so the board becomes less sensitive to water movements, chop, and your body movements: it reacts, but more predictably, whereas when a part gets out of the water it induces a different behavior that can put you off-balance?

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colas said..

JeanG said..
* Possibly straighter tracking (more water resistance to left-right movements), but am not sure yet

I have the same impression, maybe because once underwater, things doesn't change much if the board moves around, so the board becomes less sensitive to water movements, chop, and your body movements: it reacts, but more predictably, whereas when a part gets out of the water it induces a different behavior that can put you off-balance?

Have your attention please on the fact of buoyancy and outline type : on Tomo type pattern ( square design outline) if there is ratio +or- 0% and volume repartition is perfect the board is just or almost flat floating upon water level. This way there is no drag while sinking tail like is used to be on pointed nose board.
I did demo it on 7'26" 80 liters : a very good paddle at point to over take the wave speed in a few paddle strokes. I would not do that on a pointed nose board of same volume ratio .So much straighter tracking provided by parralel outline and narrowness;