Hi Everyone, I'm looking at changing sups and would like some advice and opinions. I've been surfing shortboards for 45 years and reasonably competent. Been riding sups 7 years now, probably more than prone surfing and maybe once or twice a week and would say intermediate level. I'm 5'8" and 65kgs. I ride up to about 4 foot surf and generally reefs but nothing too critical. I'm on a Hypernut 7'2"x28" @105 L which is fantastic but I reckon I could comfotably go less volume. Before that a Raptor 7'x31"@116L which I loved but a bit too much volume for me. I tried the 28" wide Raptor and JP slate years ago but they were a bit above my skill level then. I've been trying to find a 28" Raptor but there's none around.Naish has a couple of newer models of crossovers with foil boxes and about 700grm extra weight and based on the Raptor shape but I prefer short board style surfing and not really interested in foiling. On my current Hypernut I still fall off a few times waiting for waves esp in chop that's why I'm thinking probably 28" width is about as narrow as I could comfortably go. I like the look of the 7'2" x 27" Minions but don't want to spend more time in the water than above it. Any thoughts on my next board? Cheers!

I'd say just adjust your footing to get more balance in chop, so you will not be limited to high volume boards.www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/Mastering-lateral-balance-on-a-small-SUP-board

Then I would suggest going down in volume, to avoid the cork effect in chop (I guess you could drop to 85 / 90 liters), but keep some width for stability, especially since you are tall, I would stay in the 28"+ range since you do not go out in big waves
However I would try to get a bit more pulled in nose and tails than the hypernut and raptor shapes. These full "Tomo" shapes are fun in weak and slow waves, but I find them a bit limited for performance surfing: the wide square nose catch rails on committed rail turns, and the wide tail slows the rail-to-rail action.

Ah, and the lighter, the better, especially at your weight.

I',m similar size to you, its impossible to find stock boards of proper volume (1.4 ratio or less) in stable outline. Consider custom or have one of the production brands thin out a stock model for your size. Colas has good rec. for shape, for myself I would call anything over 27'' stable for a wider nose/tail kind of a shape, and 28'' stable for a performance shape. 26'' and below for advanced performance or if less skilled dead smooth water. Lighter riders can definitely go narrower but there is no formula for this that I have found.

Hi Colas and Slsurf, thanks heaps for your info and links Colas and board info Slsurf. What you describe makes so much sense from a physics and practical sense. I enjoyed the link and your videos and will be totally re-thinking my next board shape and volume. First I'll be in the water and learning and trying the new stance. Will let you know how I go and what I end up getting. Have a great one guys!!!

Personally, would strongly suggest you consider a Smik hipster twin. Very stable board but still has a more pulled in tail with the hip and fin combo allowing for very snappy turns. Fast and fun and work well in a wide range of conditions. You could surf 27" wide comfortably I reckon as still a pretty parallel outline. In my experience a much better board than the minion (I have both though Smik less volume). Colas' comments re the downside of Thommo shapes spot on for the minion which requires good footwork with back foot to extract proper performance. Smik rail to rail transition much better.

Hi Steve, at 65 kg and with so many years of surfing background, I suggest that you meet a local shaper to make you build a custom board as the construction of the board can be done as a normal sufboard with a stringer and epoxy glassing.
Just an idea of your board 7'2" 26'5" 81 litres , what's your though please?

www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Account=6301&BoardName=STEVE8

Select to expand quote

steve8 said..
Hi Everyone, I'm looking at changing sups and would like some advice and opinions. I've been surfing shortboards for 45 years and reasonably competent. Been riding sups 7 years now, probably more than prone surfing and maybe once or twice a week and would say intermediate level. I'm 5'8" and 65kgs. I ride up to about 4 foot surf and generally reefs but nothing too critical. I'm on a Hypernut 7'2"x28" @105 L which is fantastic but I reckon I could comfotably go less volume. Before that a Raptor 7'x31"@116L which I loved but a bit too much volume for me. I tried the 28" wide Raptor and JP slate years ago but they were a bit above my skill level then. I've been trying to find a 28" Raptor but there's none around.Naish has a couple of newer models of crossovers with foil boxes and about 700grm extra weight and based on the Raptor shape but I prefer short board style surfing and not really interested in foiling. On my current Hypernut I still fall off a few times waiting for waves esp in chop that's why I'm thinking probably 28" width is about as narrow as I could comfortably go. I like the look of the 7'2" x 27" Minions but don't want to spend more time in the water than above it. Any thoughts on my next board? Cheers!

I'm 70 kgs with a 7'0 (95L) minion which I'm not using much and had thought of selling. If it's something that interests you and you're in Sydney let me know

I have almost the opposite issue to you. I am similar height/weight (a little heavier at around 71-72kg) and recently downsized to a Starboard 7'10 x 28 (102L). Im looking for something more stable for choppy/weak/mushy conditions. Hypernut is on my short list, but just saw a Smik Spitfire for sale

Select to expand quote

steve8 said..
Hi Everyone, I'm looking at changing sups and would like some advice and opinions. I've been surfing shortboards for 45 years and reasonably competent. Been riding sups 7 years now, probably more than prone surfing and maybe once or twice a week and would say intermediate level. I'm 5'8" and 65kgs. I ride up to about 4 foot surf and generally reefs but nothing too critical. I'm on a Hypernut 7'2"x28" @105 L which is fantastic but I reckon I could comfotably go less volume. Before that a Raptor 7'x31"@116L which I loved but a bit too much volume for me. I tried the 28" wide Raptor and JP slate years ago but they were a bit above my skill level then. I've been trying to find a 28" Raptor but there's none around.Naish has a couple of newer models of crossovers with foil boxes and about 700grm extra weight and based on the Raptor shape but I prefer short board style surfing and not really interested in foiling. On my current Hypernut I still fall off a few times waiting for waves esp in chop that's why I'm thinking probably 28" width is about as narrow as I could comfortably go. I like the look of the 7'2" x 27" Minions but don't want to spend more time in the water than above it. Any thoughts on my next board? Cheers!

What did you think of the slate? What size did you try?

Honestly, I have bought and sold like 20 Sup boards. I constantly get lured back to the concept of these boards, but the reality is that these square outline boards just do not perform as well as the more traditional shapes...I recently fell back in love with the concept, bought a 72 X 26 JP slate (at 1:1 weight to volume) and it still does not surf as near as well as the 7'4 x 27 JP pro. Theres a reason why you don't see these shapes at contests... In a fast beach break close out where speed is everything, it has a place, but in anything else, just ride a more traditional outline board - like the SMIK hipster or whatever

Select to expand quote

Mattisup said..
Honestly, I have bought and sold like 20 Sup boards. I constantly get lured back to the concept of these boards, but the reality is that these square outline boards just do not perform as well as the more traditional shapes...

I advise getting some kind of hybrid outline. It is incredible how just a bit of nose width can add to stability without getting any of the cumbersomeness of a square nose. And some width in the tail can add stability if the outline have enough curve to keep the looseness.

To their credit, most brands moved away from full-on square outlines. E.g. JP pulled in the nose and tail of their slate in 2019, just compare the 2017 & 2019 versions:



In my opinion, nose and tail should not be wider than this, more and the stability is not increased significantly, but the performance is dramatically reduced:

Select to expand quote

Kami said..
Hi Steve, at 65 kg and with so many years of surfing background, I suggest that you meet a local shaper to make you build a custom board as the construction of the board can be done as a normal sufboard with a stringer and epoxy glassing.
Just an idea of your board 7'2" 26'5" 81 litres , what's your though please?

www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Account=6301&BoardName=STEVE8

Kami your design looks Ace.
Steve 8 I ride a 7'2 Hypernut and I have reduced all the fin sizes and the board performance has improved considerably and feels more like a normal prone shortboard as well as a SUP board can in paddle vs prone comparisons. I rode shortboards for well over 3 decades before picking up a paddle.
If I was getting a new SUP it would be Kami's design on this thread.

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colas said..

Mattisup said..
Honestly, I have bought and sold like 20 Sup boards. I constantly get lured back to the concept of these boards, but the reality is that these square outline boards just do not perform as well as the more traditional shapes...

I advise getting some kind of hybrid outline. It is incredible how just a bit of nose width can add to stability without getting any of the cumbersomeness of a square nose. And some width in the tail can add stability if the outline have enough curve to keep the looseness.

To their credit, most brands moved away from full-on square outlines. E.g. JP pulled in the nose and tail of their slate in 2019, just compare the 2017 & 2019 versions:



In my opinion, nose and tail should not be wider than this, more and the stability is not increased significantly, but the performance is dramatically reduced:

+1 to hybrids. Aristotle's golden mean.

This is my custom hybrid. 120l for a 6'4 x 240 rider. Works in all but overhead conditions.

7'8 or 7'11 Sunova Speeed ?

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BigZ said..

colas said..

Mattisup said..
Honestly, I have bought and sold like 20 Sup boards. I constantly get lured back to the concept of these boards, but the reality is that these square outline boards do not perform as well as the more traditional shapes...

I advise getting some hybrid outline. It is incredible how just a bit of nose width can add to stability without getting any of the cumbersomeness of a square nose. And some width in the tail can add stability if the outline have enough curve to keep the looseness.

To their credit, most brands moved away from full-on square outlines. E.g. JP pulled in the nose and tail of their slate in 2019. Just compare the 2017 & 2019 versions:



In my opinion, nose and tail should not be wider than this, more and the stability is not increased significantly, but the performance is dramatically reduced:

+1 to hybrids. Aristotle's golden mean.

This is my custom hybrid. 120l for a 6'4 x 240 rider. Works in all but overhead conditions.

ShortSUP has to get the same balance of widths as SB has to get the closest surfing behaviour between those two surfboard concepts (SUP vs SB). So to get this similarity of concepts with the need of stand up paddling ablility, it needs to enlarge the nose width and area to give paddling stability with glide early taken off.
The RNB from Infinity or the Slate from JP fit the box of the SB behaviour while getting a larger tail line with a narrower or pull-in nose line combined with a maximum width of the outline pulled backwards rather than forward as the Gong or the other JP shown on Colas's post.

BTW the Riviera below is the paradigm of the explained concept



I refresh the 3Dview of the file: www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Account=6301&BoardName=STEVE8

With the dims below here. At 85 litres it comes out at 7'5" 27.4"

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Kami said..
it needs to enlarge the nose width and area to give paddling stability with glide early taken off.

This is also what I though, but I am liking the pulled-in pointed noses more and more for two reasons:
- they paddle noticeably faster by "piercing" the water
- they make you paddle with your body more to the aft, and so it is easier to transition from putting the nose close to the water surface for takeoff to stomping the kickpad for action.

The trick is to paddle with the nose in the air, as you cannot rely on it for stability. So you need 10 / 15 liters more volume on these pointed nose design than wider noses, to be able to "waste" some volume by having the nose well above water when paddling.

The downside is that they love to punish you if your front foot position is not precise enough... a bit like foiling :-)

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shiny said..
Personally, would strongly suggest you consider a Smik hipster twin. Very stable board but still has a more pulled in tail with the hip and fin combo allowing for very snappy turns. Fast and fun and work well in a wide range of conditions. You could surf 27" wide comfortably I reckon as still a pretty parallel outline. In my experience a much better board than the minion (I have both though Smik less volume). Colas' comments re the downside of Thommo shapes spot on for the minion which requires good footwork with back foot to extract proper performance. Smik rail to rail transition much better.

Select to expand quote

shiny said..
Personally, would strongly suggest you consider a Smik hipster twin. Very stable board but still has a more pulled in tail with the hip and fin combo allowing for very snappy turns. Fast and fun and work well in a wide range of conditions. You could surf 27" wide comfortably I reckon as still a pretty parallel outline. In my experience a much better board than the minion (I have both though Smik less volume). Colas' comments re the downside of Thommo shapes spot on for the minion which requires good footwork with back foot to extract proper performance. Smik rail to rail transition much better.

I've looked at the Hipsters but it seems like 7'8" is about the shortest and I'd prefer to be riding closer to 7'. I'll keep my eyes open for any 2nd hand ones. Cheers.

Select to expand quote

Kami said..
Hi Steve, at 65 kg and with so many years of surfing background, I suggest that you meet a local shaper to make you build a custom board as the construction of the board can be done as a normal sufboard with a stringer and epoxy glassing.
Just an idea of your board 7'2" 26'5" 81 litres , what's your though please?

www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Account=6301&BoardName=STEVE8

Hi Kami, it looks a nice shape. I might look into it thanks, though I prefer off the rack boards as I can actually see a board before I buy. Cheers.

Select to expand quote

robbo1111 said..

steve8 said..
Hi Everyone, I'm looking at changing sups and would like some advice and opinions. I've been surfing shortboards for 45 years and reasonably competent. Been riding sups 7 years now, probably more than prone surfing and maybe once or twice a week and would say intermediate level. I'm 5'8" and 65kgs. I ride up to about 4 foot surf and generally reefs but nothing too critical. I'm on a Hypernut 7'2"x28" @105 L which is fantastic but I reckon I could comfotably go less volume. Before that a Raptor 7'x31"@116L which I loved but a bit too much volume for me. I tried the 28" wide Raptor and JP slate years ago but they were a bit above my skill level then. I've been trying to find a 28" Raptor but there's none around.Naish has a couple of newer models of crossovers with foil boxes and about 700grm extra weight and based on the Raptor shape but I prefer short board style surfing and not really interested in foiling. On my current Hypernut I still fall off a few times waiting for waves esp in chop that's why I'm thinking probably 28" width is about as narrow as I could comfortably go. I like the look of the 7'2" x 27" Minions but don't want to spend more time in the water than above it. Any thoughts on my next board? Cheers!

I'm 70 kgs with a 7'0 (95L) minion which I'm not using much and had thought of selling. If it's something that interests you and you're in Sydney let me know

Hi Robbo, I'd definitely be interested in having a chat about your minion. Could you send me some photos, including, width, thickness etc. My mobile is 0488179885.
Cheers.

Select to expand quote

robbo1111 said..

steve8 said..
Hi Everyone, I'm looking at changing sups and would like some advice and opinions. I've been surfing shortboards for 45 years and reasonably competent. Been riding sups 7 years now, probably more than prone surfing and maybe once or twice a week and would say intermediate level. I'm 5'8" and 65kgs. I ride up to about 4 foot surf and generally reefs but nothing too critical. I'm on a Hypernut 7'2"x28" @105 L which is fantastic but I reckon I could comfotably go less volume. Before that a Raptor 7'x31"@116L which I loved but a bit too much volume for me. I tried the 28" wide Raptor and JP slate years ago but they were a bit above my skill level then. I've been trying to find a 28" Raptor but there's none around.Naish has a couple of newer models of crossovers with foil boxes and about 700grm extra weight and based on the Raptor shape but I prefer short board style surfing and not really interested in foiling. On my current Hypernut I still fall off a few times waiting for waves esp in chop that's why I'm thinking probably 28" width is about as narrow as I could comfortably go. I like the look of the 7'2" x 27" Minions but don't want to spend more time in the water than above it. Any thoughts on my next board? Cheers!

I'm 70 kgs with a 7'0 (95L) minion which I'm not using much and had thought of selling. If it's something that interests you and you're in Sydney let me know

And yep, I'm in Sydney.

Select to expand quote

les71 said..

steve8 said..
Hi Everyone, I'm looking at changing sups and would like some advice and opinions. I've been surfing shortboards for 45 years and reasonably competent. Been riding sups 7 years now, probably more than prone surfing and maybe once or twice a week and would say intermediate level. I'm 5'8" and 65kgs. I ride up to about 4 foot surf and generally reefs but nothing too critical. I'm on a Hypernut 7'2"x28" @105 L which is fantastic but I reckon I could comfotably go less volume. Before that a Raptor 7'x31"@116L which I loved but a bit too much volume for me. I tried the 28" wide Raptor and JP slate years ago but they were a bit above my skill level then. I've been trying to find a 28" Raptor but there's none around.Naish has a couple of newer models of crossovers with foil boxes and about 700grm extra weight and based on the Raptor shape but I prefer short board style surfing and not really interested in foiling. On my current Hypernut I still fall off a few times waiting for waves esp in chop that's why I'm thinking probably 28" width is about as narrow as I could comfortably go. I like the look of the 7'2" x 27" Minions but don't want to spend more time in the water than above it. Any thoughts on my next board? Cheers!

What did you think of the slate? What size did you try?

I tried the7'2" by 28" from memory, but it was a bit above my skill level at the time so I couldn't give you a real opinion.

Select to expand quote

les71 said..

steve8 said..
Hi Everyone, I'm looking at changing sups and would like some advice and opinions. I've been surfing shortboards for 45 years and reasonably competent. Been riding sups 7 years now, probably more than prone surfing and maybe once or twice a week and would say intermediate level. I'm 5'8" and 65kgs. I ride up to about 4 foot surf and generally reefs but nothing too critical. I'm on a Hypernut 7'2"x28" @105 L which is fantastic but I reckon I could comfotably go less volume. Before that a Raptor 7'x31"@116L which I loved but a bit too much volume for me. I tried the 28" wide Raptor and JP slate years ago but they were a bit above my skill level then. I've been trying to find a 28" Raptor but there's none around.Naish has a couple of newer models of crossovers with foil boxes and about 700grm extra weight and based on the Raptor shape but I prefer short board style surfing and not really interested in foiling. On my current Hypernut I still fall off a few times waiting for waves esp in chop that's why I'm thinking probably 28" width is about as narrow as I could comfortably go. I like the look of the 7'2" x 27" Minions but don't want to spend more time in the water than above it. Any thoughts on my next board? Cheers!

What did you think of the slate? What size did you try?

I tried the7'2" by 28" from memory, but it was a bit above my skill level at the time so I couldn't give you a real opinion.

Select to expand quote

Mattisup said..
Honestly, I have bought and sold like 20 Sup boards. I constantly get lured back to the concept of these boards, but the reality is that these square outline boards just do not perform as well as the more traditional shapes...I recently fell back in love with the concept, bought a 72 X 26 JP slate (at 1:1 weight to volume) and it still does not surf as near as well as the 7'4 x 27 JP pro. Theres a reason why you don't see these shapes at contests... In a fast beach break close out where speed is everything, it has a place, but in anything else, just ride a more traditional outline board - like the SMIK hipster or whatever

Yeah, I hear you. I guess having my last few boards with the tomo shape I'm a bit spoilt and like the idea easier of standing and waitng for waves not being a major struggle. A regular shape like your 7'4" jp would be a bit of a battle for me I think.
Once things open up again in Sydney I might try and find a shop with some demos. Cheers.

Select to expand quote

robbo1111 said..

steve8 said..
Hi Everyone, I'm looking at changing sups and would like some advice and opinions. I've been surfing shortboards for 45 years and reasonably competent. Been riding sups 7 years now, probably more than prone surfing and maybe once or twice a week and would say intermediate level. I'm 5'8" and 65kgs. I ride up to about 4 foot surf and generally reefs but nothing too critical. I'm on a Hypernut 7'2"x28" @105 L which is fantastic but I reckon I could comfotably go less volume. Before that a Raptor 7'x31"@116L which I loved but a bit too much volume for me. I tried the 28" wide Raptor and JP slate years ago but they were a bit above my skill level then. I've been trying to find a 28" Raptor but there's none around.Naish has a couple of newer models of crossovers with foil boxes and about 700grm extra weight and based on the Raptor shape but I prefer short board style surfing and not really interested in foiling. On my current Hypernut I still fall off a few times waiting for waves esp in chop that's why I'm thinking probably 28" width is about as narrow as I could comfortably go. I like the look of the 7'2" x 27" Minions but don't want to spend more time in the water than above it. Any thoughts on my next board? Cheers!

I'm 70 kgs with a 7'0 (95L) minion which I'm not using much and had thought of selling. If it's something that interests you and you're in Sydney let me know

And yep, I'm in Sydney.

Select to expand quote

Surfnbjj said..
I have almost the opposite issue to you. I am similar height/weight (a little heavier at around 71-72kg) and recently downsized to a Starboard 7'10 x 28 (102L). Im looking for something more stable for choppy/weak/mushy conditions. Hypernut is on my short list, but just saw a Smik Spitfire for sale

This is my 2nd hypernut and I love them.

Select to expand quote

shiny said..
Personally, would strongly suggest you consider a Smik hipster twin. Very stable board but still has a more pulled in tail with the hip and fin combo allowing for very snappy turns. Fast and fun and work well in a wide range of conditions. You could surf 27" wide comfortably I reckon as still a pretty parallel outline. In my experience a much better board than the minion (I have both though Smik less volume). Colas' comments re the downside of Thommo shapes spot on for the minion which requires good footwork with back foot to extract proper performance. Smik rail to rail transition much better.

Select to expand quote

shiny said..
Personally, would strongly suggest you consider a Smik hipster twin. Very stable board but still has a more pulled in tail with the hip and fin combo allowing for very snappy turns. Fast and fun and work well in a wide range of conditions. You could surf 27" wide comfortably I reckon as still a pretty parallel outline. In my experience a much better board than the minion (I have both though Smik less volume). Colas' comments re the downside of Thommo shapes spot on for the minion which requires good footwork with back foot to extract proper performance. Smik rail to rail transition much better.

I've looked at the Hipsters but it seems like 7'8" is about the shortest and I'd prefer to be riding closer to 7'. I'll keep my eyes open for any 2nd hand ones. Cheers.

Select to expand quote

colas said..

Mattisup said..
Honestly, I have bought and sold like 20 Sup boards. I constantly get lured back to the concept of these boards, but the reality is that these square outline boards just do not perform as well as the more traditional shapes...

I advise getting some kind of hybrid outline. It is incredible how just a bit of nose width can add to stability without getting any of the cumbersomeness of a square nose. And some width in the tail can add stability if the outline have enough curve to keep the looseness.

To their credit, most brands moved away from full-on square outlines. E.g. JP pulled in the nose and tail of their slate in 2019, just compare the 2017 & 2019 versions:



In my opinion, nose and tail should not be wider than this, more and the stability is not increased significantly, but the performance is dramatically reduced:

Select to expand quote

colas said..

Mattisup said..
Honestly, I have bought and sold like 20 Sup boards. I constantly get lured back to the concept of these boards, but the reality is that these square outline boards just do not perform as well as the more traditional shapes...

I advise getting some kind of hybrid outline. It is incredible how just a bit of nose width can add to stability without getting any of the cumbersomeness of a square nose. And some width in the tail can add stability if the outline have enough curve to keep the looseness.

To their credit, most brands moved away from full-on square outlines. E.g. JP pulled in the nose and tail of their slate in 2019, just compare the 2017 & 2019 versions:



In my opinion, nose and tail should not be wider than this, more and the stability is not increased significantly, but the performance is dramatically reduced:

Hi again Colas, the gong does look an intersting shape. We don't see many over here. I'll look into them. Cheers.

Select to expand quote

shiny said..
Personally, would strongly suggest you consider a Smik hipster twin. Very stable board but still has a more pulled in tail with the hip and fin combo allowing for very snappy turns. Fast and fun and work well in a wide range of conditions. You could surf 27" wide comfortably I reckon as still a pretty parallel outline. In my experience a much better board than the minion (I have both though Smik less volume). Colas' comments re the downside of Thommo shapes spot on for the minion which requires good footwork with back foot to extract proper performance. Smik rail to rail transition much better.

Select to expand quote

shiny said..
Personally, would strongly suggest you consider a Smik hipster twin. Very stable board but still has a more pulled in tail with the hip and fin combo allowing for very snappy turns. Fast and fun and work well in a wide range of conditions. You could surf 27" wide comfortably I reckon as still a pretty parallel outline. In my experience a much better board than the minion (I have both though Smik less volume). Colas' comments re the downside of Thommo shapes spot on for the minion which requires good footwork with back foot to extract proper performance. Smik rail to rail transition much better.

I've looked at the Hipsters but it seems like 7'8" is about the shortest and I'd prefer to be riding closer to 7'. I'll keep my eyes open for any 2nd hand ones. Cheers.

Select to expand quote

colas said..

Mattisup said..
Honestly, I have bought and sold like 20 Sup boards. I constantly get lured back to the concept of these boards, but the reality is that these square outline boards just do not perform as well as the more traditional shapes...

I advise getting some kind of hybrid outline. It is incredible how just a bit of nose width can add to stability without getting any of the cumbersomeness of a square nose. And some width in the tail can add stability if the outline have enough curve to keep the looseness.

To their credit, most brands moved away from full-on square outlines. E.g. JP pulled in the nose and tail of their slate in 2019, just compare the 2017 & 2019 versions:



In my opinion, nose and tail should not be wider than this, more and the stability is not increased significantly, but the performance is dramatically reduced:

Select to expand quote

colas said..

Mattisup said..
Honestly, I have bought and sold like 20 Sup boards. I constantly get lured back to the concept of these boards, but the reality is that these square outline boards just do not perform as well as the more traditional shapes...

I advise getting some kind of hybrid outline. It is incredible how just a bit of nose width can add to stability without getting any of the cumbersomeness of a square nose. And some width in the tail can add stability if the outline have enough curve to keep the looseness.

To their credit, most brands moved away from full-on square outlines. E.g. JP pulled in the nose and tail of their slate in 2019, just compare the 2017 & 2019 versions:



In my opinion, nose and tail should not be wider than this, more and the stability is not increased significantly, but the performance is dramatically reduced:

Hi again Colas, the gong does look an intersting shape. We don't see many over here. I'll look into them. Cheers.

Select to expand quote

Jacksboards said..

Kami said..
Hi Steve, at 65 kg and with so many years of surfing background, I suggest that you meet a local shaper to make you build a custom board as the construction of the board can be done as a normal sufboard with a stringer and epoxy glassing.
Just an idea of your board 7'2" 26'5" 81 litres , what's your though please?

www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Account=6301&BoardName=STEVE8

Kami your design looks Ace.
Steve 8 I ride a 7'2 Hypernut and I have reduced all the fin sizes and the board performance has improved considerably and feels more like a normal prone shortboard as well as a SUP board can in paddle vs prone comparisons. I rode shortboards for well over 3 decades before picking up a paddle.
If I was getting a new SUP it would be Kami's design on this thread.

Hi Jack, yeah I've played around with fins on my hypernut have ended up using large twin fins on the front and the standard 4.5s on the rear. It seems everyone is recommending more shortboard styles, and til now haven't seen any of the suggested shapes. Will look into it. Cheers.

Select to expand quote

shiny said..
Personally, would strongly suggest you consider a Smik hipster twin. Very stable board but still has a more pulled in tail with the hip and fin combo allowing for very snappy turns. Fast and fun and work well in a wide range of conditions. You could surf 27" wide comfortably I reckon as still a pretty parallel outline. In my experience a much better board than the minion (I have both though Smik less volume). Colas' comments re the downside of Thommo shapes spot on for the minion which requires good footwork with back foot to extract proper performance. Smik rail to rail transition much better.

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shiny said..
Personally, would strongly suggest you consider a Smik hipster twin. Very stable board but still has a more pulled in tail with the hip and fin combo allowing for very snappy turns. Fast and fun and work well in a wide range of conditions. You could surf 27" wide comfortably I reckon as still a pretty parallel outline. In my experience a much better board than the minion (I have both though Smik less volume). Colas' comments re the downside of Thommo shapes spot on for the minion which requires good footwork with back foot to extract proper performance. Smik rail to rail transition much better.

I've looked at the Hipsters but it seems like 7'8" is about the shortest and I'd prefer to be riding closer to 7'. I'll keep my eyes open for any 2nd hand ones. Cheers.

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colas said..

Mattisup said..
Honestly, I have bought and sold like 20 Sup boards. I constantly get lured back to the concept of these boards, but the reality is that these square outline boards just do not perform as well as the more traditional shapes...

I advise getting some kind of hybrid outline. It is incredible how just a bit of nose width can add to stability without getting any of the cumbersomeness of a square nose. And some width in the tail can add stability if the outline have enough curve to keep the looseness.

To their credit, most brands moved away from full-on square outlines. E.g. JP pulled in the nose and tail of their slate in 2019, just compare the 2017 & 2019 versions:



In my opinion, nose and tail should not be wider than this, more and the stability is not increased significantly, but the performance is dramatically reduced:

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colas said..

Mattisup said..
Honestly, I have bought and sold like 20 Sup boards. I constantly get lured back to the concept of these boards, but the reality is that these square outline boards just do not perform as well as the more traditional shapes...

I advise getting some kind of hybrid outline. It is incredible how just a bit of nose width can add to stability without getting any of the cumbersomeness of a square nose. And some width in the tail can add stability if the outline have enough curve to keep the looseness.

To their credit, most brands moved away from full-on square outlines. E.g. JP pulled in the nose and tail of their slate in 2019, just compare the 2017 & 2019 versions:



In my opinion, nose and tail should not be wider than this, more and the stability is not increased significantly, but the performance is dramatically reduced:

Hi again Colas, the gong does look an intersting shape. We don't see many over here. I'll look into them. Cheers.

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Jacksboards said..

Kami said..
Hi Steve, at 65 kg and with so many years of surfing background, I suggest that you meet a local shaper to make you build a custom board as the construction of the board can be done as a normal sufboard with a stringer and epoxy glassing.
Just an idea of your board 7'2" 26'5" 81 litres , what's your though please?

www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Account=6301&BoardName=STEVE8

Kami your design looks Ace.
Steve 8 I ride a 7'2 Hypernut and I have reduced all the fin sizes and the board performance has improved considerably and feels more like a normal prone shortboard as well as a SUP board can in paddle vs prone comparisons. I rode shortboards for well over 3 decades before picking up a paddle.
If I was getting a new SUP it would be Kami's design on this thread.

Hi Jack, yeah I've played around with fins on my hypernut have ended up using large twin fins on the front and the standard 4.5s on the rear. It seems everyone is recommending more shortboard styles, and til now haven't seen any of the suggested shapes. Will look into it. Cheers.

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BigZ said..

colas said..

Mattisup said..
Honestly, I have bought and sold like 20 Sup boards. I constantly get lured back to the concept of these boards, but the reality is that these square outline boards just do not perform as well as the more traditional shapes...

I advise getting some kind of hybrid outline. It is incredible how just a bit of nose width can add to stability without getting any of the cumbersomeness of a square nose. And some width in the tail can add stability if the outline have enough curve to keep the looseness.

To their credit, most brands moved away from full-on square outlines. E.g. JP pulled in the nose and tail of their slate in 2019, just compare the 2017 & 2019 versions:



In my opinion, nose and tail should not be wider than this, more and the stability is not increased significantly, but the performance is dramatically reduced:

+1 to hybrids. Aristotle's golden mean.

This is my custom hybrid. 120l for a 6'4 x 240 rider. Works in all but overhead conditions.

Very nice!

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Kami said..

BigZ said..

colas said..

Mattisup said..
Honestly, I have bought and sold like 20 Sup boards. I constantly get lured back to the concept of these boards, but the reality is that these square outline boards do not perform as well as the more traditional shapes...

I advise getting some hybrid outline. It is incredible how just a bit of nose width can add to stability without getting any of the cumbersomeness of a square nose. And some width in the tail can add stability if the outline have enough curve to keep the looseness.

To their credit, most brands moved away from full-on square outlines. E.g. JP pulled in the nose and tail of their slate in 2019. Just compare the 2017 & 2019 versions:



In my opinion, nose and tail should not be wider than this, more and the stability is not increased significantly, but the performance is dramatically reduced:

+1 to hybrids. Aristotle's golden mean.

This is my custom hybrid. 120l for a 6'4 x 240 rider. Works in all but overhead conditions.

ShortSUP has to get the same balance of widths as SB has to get the closest surfing behaviour between those two surfboard concepts (SUP vs SB). So to get this similarity of concepts with the need of stand up paddling ablility, it needs to enlarge the nose width and area to give paddling stability with glide early taken off.
The RNB from Infinity or the Slate from JP fit the box of the SB behaviour while getting a larger tail line with a narrower or pull-in nose line combined with a maximum width of the outline pulled backwards rather than forward as the Gong or the other JP shown on Colas's post.

BTW the Riviera below is the paradigm of the explained concept



I refresh the 3Dview of the file: www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Account=6301&BoardName=STEVE8

With the dims below here. At 85 litres it comes out at 7'5" 27.4"

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Kami said..

BigZ said..

colas said..

Mattisup said..
Honestly, I have bought and sold like 20 Sup boards. I constantly get lured back to the concept of these boards, but the reality is that these square outline boards do not perform as well as the more traditional shapes...

I advise getting some hybrid outline. It is incredible how just a bit of nose width can add to stability without getting any of the cumbersomeness of a square nose. And some width in the tail can add stability if the outline have enough curve to keep the looseness.

To their credit, most brands moved away from full-on square outlines. E.g. JP pulled in the nose and tail of their slate in 2019. Just compare the 2017 & 2019 versions:



In my opinion, nose and tail should not be wider than this, more and the stability is not increased significantly, but the performance is dramatically reduced:

+1 to hybrids. Aristotle's golden mean.

This is my custom hybrid. 120l for a 6'4 x 240 rider. Works in all but overhead conditions.

ShortSUP has to get the same balance of widths as SB has to get the closest surfing behaviour between those two surfboard concepts (SUP vs SB). So to get this similarity of concepts with the need of stand up paddling ablility, it needs to enlarge the nose width and area to give paddling stability with glide early taken off.
The RNB from Infinity or the Slate from JP fit the box of the SB behaviour while getting a larger tail line with a narrower or pull-in nose line combined with a maximum width of the outline pulled backwards rather than forward as the Gong or the other JP shown on Colas's post.

BTW the Riviera below is the paradigm of the explained concept



I refresh the 3Dview of the file: www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Account=6301&BoardName=STEVE8

With the dims below here. At 85 litres it comes out at 7'5" 27.4"

Thanks Kami, looks sweet.

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steve8 said..
Hi again Colas, the gong does look an intersting shape. We don't see many over here. I'll look into them. Cheers.

It was just to give an example, Gong does not ship hard boards outside of Europe.

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colas said..

steve8 said..
Hi again Colas, the gong does look an intersting shape. We don't see many over here. I'll look into them. Cheers.

It was just to give an example, Gong does not ship hard boards outside of Europe.

Yes, a pity. Ichecked their website. Thanks heaps for your help.

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robbo1111 said..

steve8 said..
Hi Everyone, I'm looking at changing sups and would like some advice and opinions. I've been surfing shortboards for 45 years and reasonably competent. Been riding sups 7 years now, probably more than prone surfing and maybe once or twice a week and would say intermediate level. I'm 5'8" and 65kgs. I ride up to about 4 foot surf and generally reefs but nothing too critical. I'm on a Hypernut 7'2"x28" @105 L which is fantastic but I reckon I could comfotably go less volume. Before that a Raptor 7'x31"@116L which I loved but a bit too much volume for me. I tried the 28" wide Raptor and JP slate years ago but they were a bit above my skill level then. I've been trying to find a 28" Raptor but there's none around.Naish has a couple of newer models of crossovers with foil boxes and about 700grm extra weight and based on the Raptor shape but I prefer short board style surfing and not really interested in foiling. On my current Hypernut I still fall off a few times waiting for waves esp in chop that's why I'm thinking probably 28" width is about as narrow as I could comfortably go. I like the look of the 7'2" x 27" Minions but don't want to spend more time in the water than above it. Any thoughts on my next board? Cheers!

I'm 70 kgs with a 7'0 (95L) minion which I'm not using much and had thought of selling. If it's something that interests you and you're in Sydney let me know

Hi Robbo, tried to msg you, not sure if they went through.
I'm might be interested in your Minion. I'm in Sydney.
Could you call or msg me and we can talk about it.
0488 179 885.
Cheers, Steve.

Steve8

Front fins are now the rear 4.5's and rear two fins are 3.3's.
The original H'NUT fin set inhibited the performance of the h'nut design I believe