Hi,
I am considering a sail for my sup, a 9'6" JP Surf.
I am wanting to hear from anyone who has done this.
What is the ideal wind strength to SUP Sail? I am thinking 10-15 knots?
What would I look for in a sail and mast etc.
What wind speed range does a sail have?
For instance would I use the same sail for 10 knots of wind that I would use for 15?
I have had no experience with wind surfing.

Appreciate your help.

Ken.

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KennyK said..

Hi,
I am considering a sail for my sup, a 9'6" JP Surf.
I am wanting to hear from anyone who has done this.
What is the ideal wind strength to SUP Sail? I am thinking 10-15 knots?
What would I look for in a sail and mast etc.
What wind speed range does a sail have?
For instance would I use the same sail for 10 knots of wind that I would use for 15?
I have had no experience with wind surfing.

Appreciate your help.

Ken.

You need something like this sail that I used a couple of weeks ago when I tried windsurfing the Naish 10'10" Nalu.. It's a 5.7 surf sail.. btw this vid was in about 15-20 knots of wind.. I'm thinking you need something between a 4.7 and a 5.7 and the wind range has a lot to to with your ability and experience.. I can use my 5.7 in anything from 5-10 knots up to about 20-30 knots.. I think a 5.2 might be a good size for you if you want to use it in 10-15 knots (for someone new to windsurfing).. If buying second hand make sure you get a surf sail rather than a speed sail or slalom sail.. Are you planing to use a harness? (you should) .. Will you be windsuring in the surf.. or mostly flat water? .. If it's mostly for wave sailing you need a slightly smaller sail.. Maybe 4.5- 5.2 max.. How heavy are you? You are best to learn how to water-start so you are going to need at least 15-20 knots to start with and once you can do it with ease 15 knots should be enough.. Any less wind you will need to uphaul.

DJ

Thanks for that DJ that was very informative.
In answer to your questions, I plan to mostly sail in the surf, & I am 88kg.
What wind speed would suit wave sailing to best?
Cheers,
Ken.

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KennyK said..

Thanks for that DJ that was very informative.
In answer to your questions, I plan to mostly sail in the surf, & I am 88kg.
What wind speed would suit wave sailing to best?
Cheers,
Ken.

I would say that you need at least 12-18 knots (as a ballpark figure) but it depends on you skill level and the conditions.

At your weight I think you can't go wrong with a surf sail between 5 and 5 1/2 meters in size.

It will be interesting to hear what others think.

DJ

This video was taken about 3 years ago? On the Starboard 9'8 x 29 and a 5.7m Tushingham Rock. The wind was 10-12 knots.
I weigh about 72kgs and this board from memory was 140L. In 15 knots I use the 5.7m but on an 82L Starboard Quad. Keeping in mind that a windsurf board is designed to plane.
Personally I think a 5.7m is too big for a new starter. Probably no more than 5m as this will allow you to have more control over the rig.
I guess it all depends on how good you are at getting a SUP board moving in 10-15 knots. Your weight and volume of your board also plays a big part.
Most sails have a big wind range. I've even been real lazy and stayed out on my 5.7m when the wind picked up from 15 knots to 18-23 knots.
Hope this helps

That's enough I'm off to RPS to buy a sail in ten minutes. Thanks DJ, you are as smooth and as skilled as every one says. Thanks Greenroom, you've got the life. Did you win Tattslotto or marry well.

Ive done a lot of this.
5sqm max.
u need to be able to uphaul quickly in the middle of the break. the smaller the sail the easier it is.
4.5-5m is the best.

Some general notes on SUP-sailing, from my experience.

It's quite fun, but:

1) The board can spin-out quite a lot due to the stock SUP fin. If you have, best to to use fin designed for windsurfing (freeride type) - if you don't have, don't worry about it too much. You can still sail with the stock SUP fin - just expect to have more spin-outs.

2) Lack of foot straps, apart from changing the sailing experience, make it tricky to carry the equipment (i.e. when sail is connected with board) - so be mindful of this of you need to make an entrance or exit where there is a shore-break. Not sure what the solution is here - any ideas.

3) The extra size of a sup board (compared to say a typical wave or freeride sailboard) means you can use a smaller sail than you would otherwise, especially in the surf.

4) The width of SUP makes uphauling an easier option than a a typical wave or freeride sailboard

5) Something else, but my aging brain has forgotten...

Thanks alot guys you have been very helpful!

Now, I know what downhaul means.
But I can only assume uphauling means standing up the sail after you have perhaps dropped it?
Is that right?

Cheers,
Ken.

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Bertie said..

Ive done a lot of this.
5sqm max.
u need to be able to uphaul quickly in the middle of the break. the smaller the sail the easier it is.
4.5-5m is the best.

What wind speed do you consider the best?
And I guess that because you have done alot of this, it must be much fun?
The boards stand up to it ok do they, they don,t get damaged or anything?

Ken.

Yes, Uphaul is to raise the sail out of the water while you are standing on the board.

I just noticed that your wrote "I have had no experience with wind surfing."

When you first start to lear, light winds are best, e.g 10 knots. (within the range of 7 - 12 knots).
Also, you should learn in flat water first, and to be confident there before you venture out into any kind of surf.

By best tip is that if you haven't any experience with windsurfing, first take a few lessons from an instructor on beginner windsurfing gear.

I,m sold after watching your clip DJ ,did u retro fit the sail connection to the board or did u buy the naish with it already fitted?

Fully concur with all the above comments re: wind speed (8-10+), sail size (5.0-5.7m), the NEED for a bigger fin, and the value of lessons!
For what it's worth "Big Blue" is a 10'2" that each and every person I've taught to windsurf has sailed on and loved.

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Redfezz said..



I,m sold after watching your clip DJ ,did u retro fit the sail connection to the board or did u buy the naish with it already fitted?

It's factory fitted. Many (if not most) of the Starboard and Naish models (and probably the case with other brands that also make Windsurfing boards, e.g. JP, Fanatic etc) are available in versions that have factory fitted windsurfing attachments.

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Redfezz said..



I,m sold after watching your clip DJ ,did u retro fit the sail connection to the board or did u buy the naish with it already fitted?

Some Niash boards come with a mast base screw hole in them.. This was the 10'10'' Nalu and it has one.

DJ

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KennyK said..

Bertie said..



Ive done a lot of this.

5sqm max.

u need to be able to uphaul quickly in the middle of the break. the smaller the sail the easier it is.

4.5-5m is the best.

What wind speed do you consider the best?

And I guess that because you have done alot of this, it must be much fun?

The boards stand up to it ok do they, they don,t get damaged or anything?Ken.

Kenny,
I'm refering to surfing the waves on yours SUP in a side shore breeze. Your spot on as to uphauling.
You can SUP sail from 4 knots easily until the kiters kites can hang in the sky. More and 15knots and I'd rather we windsurfing or kiting.
I guess i've stopped doing it so much lately but will still SUP sail at gnaraloo on a light day, and i surf a shortboard much more now than i used to.

I've not done any damage to my SUP while supsailing. I use a 9'2 Tabou with the stock fins.

SUP wave sailing I think really encourages you to walk around on the board lots to alter the trim or you get spat off. It a novelty thing for me i guess.

Okay. Had no joy getting the "Fusion" clip up last time around (sorry 'bout that!), so fingers crossed all goes according to plan this time...

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Cap'n Kirk said..

Okay. Had no joy getting the "Fusion" clip up last time around (sorry 'bout that!), so fingers crossed all goes according to plan this time...

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Thanks for your input Cap'n, I saw you in the surf when I was at Currumbin last thurs demoing the 9'6" JP.
I wonder if you can tell me what the wind speed was and your sail size in the video?
Cheers,
Ken.

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faito anto said..

Yes, Uphaul is to raise the sail out of the water while you are standing on the board.

I just noticed that your wrote "I have had no experience with wind surfing."

When you first start to lear, light winds are best, e.g 10 knots. (within the range of 7 - 12 knots).
Also, you should learn in flat water first, and to be confident there before you venture out into any kind of surf.

By best tip is that if you haven't any experience with windsurfing, first take a few lessons from an instructor on beginner windsurfing gear.

I should say that I can sail, I have owned a 14' cat, and I regularly sail my hobie kayak, I have had 3 different hobie kayaks and have sailed them all.
I am a very experienced surfer. So I expect to be able to learn the sup sailing pretty quickly.
Having said that, what can I expect to be the hardest aspect to come to terms with?

Ken.

Ok, being an experienced sailor and a surfer should be of great benefit.

You'll probably pick it up a lot easier than those without that experience.

I learnt to windsurf as a child, and the people I've taught (or tried to teach) didn't have the background experience that you do, so it's hard for me to say what would be the hardest aspect for you.

For most people that learn, they have the following progression.

1) Learn to uphaul the sail and get going
2) Learn to steer (especially to go a little upwind) - as when people first get going, they normally just sail off in a broad reach.

3) Learn to hook in and sail comfortably in the harness and foot-straps (although SUP sailing is normally without foot-straps)
4) Learn transitions (i.e.tacks and gybes)
5) Learn to water start (after having learnt to beach start) - water starting is a way of starting after a fall etc without having to uphaul. You use the power of the sail to pull yourself out of the water, rather than using the power of your body to pull the sail out of the water.

Steps 3,4,5 could easily be in a different order, and will depend on the person, the conditions they normally sail in, and their equipment.

Transitions (4) are probably the hardest thing to become competent in, and even once competent can involve continual mastery (whereas everything else on the list is something you just achieve basic competence with - at least that's what I've found.

Thanks Faito Anto for those comments, this has become a very good informative, interesting thread.
Well done all the contributors.
Ken.

I was doing a lot of WindSuping a while ago. First on the Starby 11-2 which was awesome fun with a 6.5m Ezzy then onto the Starby Widepoint 9-5 and I used to put foot straps on her that was a blast to sail. I reckon if you have a mast base in the board then its a nice little extra to have. Still now when its windy I like to DW rather than sail. Who knows maybe someday I'll throw a sail up again.

Cap'n Kirk,

Nice video of sup sailing!

Did you use the stock fin? Also, did you just use a single fin, or multi-fin configuration?

Sorry for the late replies men, however, to answer your questions in order:

Ken, the day in question was arguably one of the best I've enjoyed at the Alley. Steady 13-18kt SE'er, an abundance of waves (1-3ft), and - best of all - hardly anyone else out!
As for the sail? 5.7m "Blade" is my go-to SUP sail.

Faito, the Cabrinha's stock fins were pretty small at 3.5" for the sides and around 6" for the rear and while the board surfed okay it lacked lateral resistance/drive when sailing.
As such I tried an 8.5" out of my old Mal (paired with the 3.5" sides) and haven't looked back since!
I hasten to add that JP now offer M5 sides and an 8-9" rear on the "Fusion's". And given that they now use FCS rather than Futures for the sides I'd really like to try one as a true Thruster (PC7's or similar).

Anyway gents I hope that helps...

Like Kenny K, I've got a 9'6" JP Surf. I know nothing about windsurfing, but am interested to give it a try.
I saw a universal mount on Ebay and picked it up for cheap. What other parts do I need besides the sail to get a full kit together?

What are the odds you can damage the deck with the sail/mast? Don't know if these are built as robust as a windsurfer. Probably pick up a junker windsurf board to learn on first before sacrificing a $2000 board.

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dabigman said..

Probably pick up a junker windsurf board to learn on first before sacrificing a $2000 board.

Smart move!

Initially you'll need the following

Universal joint (sou)nds like you have already
Mast extension
Mast
Sail
Boom

Later on, but not required initially, a harness and harness lines . Harness could already be on your boom if buying second hand)

If you can buy a learner board for cheap (with fin), then much better idea than trying to first learn on an expensive SUP.

dabigman, put a 'wanted to buy' in the buy'n'sell section - or post on windsurfing/vic section and see if someone close to you has some old gear that you can buy/borrow...maybe able to score a few tips while you're at it.

I'm originally a w/surfer (not a good one), and more recently SUPer - the sup boards generally aren't high performance in comparison to windsurf boards, but they are easy to learn to windsurf on, tend to glide nicely & are great fun with a small sail on marginal wind days in the surf. I've windSUPed my 11'4" Nalu & 9'8" Element (gone now), and both are great fun!

In my experienced Sups arent as tough as sailboards (also depends on the SUP) so i'd reccommend a mast protector. Or as per the earlier suggestion have some lessons first on a learner board.

I use a 5.8m sail on my Sup in a wind range of 5-15 knots. I jump on my sailboard when it gets close to 15 knots.

I'm about 94kg and when I sup sail I just use the sail to slog out to the wave (it much easier than paddling!). I always like a bit more sail to help punch through the break, otherwise I end up getting punched!

DJ,
Great video, can you please advise details of the music in your video.
I have been trying to get that music forever, but don't know who it is.

I just got wind-sup 5m crossover kit for my Allwave 9'6. After 15 years of zero windsurfing it really is "just like riding a bike".
Had my first go today in flat water - think I'll give it one more go, then try the surf.
I think this is the beginning of a whole lot of fun - ie. when the surf is too crap for sup and the wind is blowing (which is a lot here) I can sail!

If there's no surf/no wind, drag out the tinnie and go catch some fish/crabs.

It's a hard life at Agnes.

Music is Moby - extreme ways......great song