Hi there,

I have been fully getting into Sup over the summer after flogging off all my windsurfing gear and buying a Naish Nalu 10 65 which has been the best fun.
I am finding i can have fun in small waves with my kids surfing and me on the SUP, it is really a double bonus!

Down here in Tas we are looking down the barrel at some cold months on the way and need a project to keep me keen over winter. I am enthused to build myself a simmons style sup. They seem to be gathering a cult following on the standupzone forums. I am not aiming to build this to be a tightass, I want to build the best board i can and to keep refining the design for fun.

I am thinking of doing a eps core with glass(maybe basalt)/cork/carbon and vac bagging. I Have done some basic design work in aku shaper but still need to refine further. Still trying to sort out the rocker line for these type of boards.

Was wondering if anyone else is keen on this sort of project maybe we can share ideas on the forum? Maybe we can develop our own Aus version of this design, share what works & doesn't etc.

I am currently working on different sources for materials if anyone is keen I will start posting up.

Would love to have access to a shaping machine but not much chance of that down in hobart so am looking to investigate getting into a more complex template setup to get the shape consistent(ish). Currently chatting with furniture maker friends about this. I have made a few surfboards before and done plenty of windsurf repairs over the years and am keen to step up my board building skills to the next level.

Cheers Chris

Great idea.. Keep us updated on your progress.

DJ

Cheers Dj

II am currently talking to the local fibreglass shop in Hobart, to get a eps blank they are super helpful.
Am also trying to source 6m or so of cork core, and I really like the sound of that product.

Will keep posting as I go along, and still flat out reading discussions on board design forums.

Cheers chris

contact cruisen down here, he's made quite a few sups for himself and should be able to point you in the right direction.

Way to go, highvolume! I just received the glass and picked up a blank on the cheap, so as soon as work slows I'm gonna build a 7'8"x 28" simmons style board too. If I were a more intelligent man (yeah, that's an oxymoron) I could paste the link for the mini simmons build site. Google it....good info on aspect ratio. And the video with the "hovercraft" song while showing surfing (not sup) will groove your stoke. Post pics! Good luck! We want to see!

Reprobate,

Sounds good, let me know how you are going.
I guess you would have been busy in Vatican city with the new pope and stuff!

I had a few probs sorting a blank here in hobart but have spoken to a foam company who are out at bridgewater and they look like they will be able to sort me out. Not sure if I can post company names on the site, so pm me if anyone wants the details. They were great on the phone!

Not too sure on foam density though, there seems to be a few different ratings
US seems to use 1,1.5 & 2 pounds per cubic foot
Aus seems to use KGs per cubic metre
Plus there also seems to be M=Medium / H=Hard / VH=Very Hard

Not to sure how they line up but am looking to go for the VH rated foam.

Have spoken to the corkcore distributer and they are getting me sorted with the nl-20 cork sheet. You can buy it in 10m lots.

Have done up a design in AK shaper based on forum info and pics of similar designs, PM me if you want it (no guarantees on how it goes though!) to muck about with.

Still tossing up whether to go glass/carbon, carbon/basalt or all basalt in the cloth department.

Had a fridge pump to make a vac pump but turns out it is dead, so back to the drawing board as to getting a vac pump happening.

Cheers Chris

Hi,

I have built a hollow timber mini simmions surf board (check my gallery for photos). As soon as i started this build I thought that this shape would scale up for a short board style sup suitable for beach breaks.

I would like to build about a 7'8" footer 32 wide with a 17" tail and S deck about 4.5" thick for my 105Kgs. Rocker I thinking I would keep to 0.5 to 1" in the tail and 4" in the nose. Bottom shape the standard single concave to double concave in the tail would work. Not sure what rocker the mid length simmons boards are using?

I have also built a few vac bag epoxy boards over the years and if your are struggling to find a blank or block of polystyrene just go to the local clark rubber and pick up 25mm thick sheets and use contact adhesive to glue them together on a rocker table to build up a blank. I have done this for a 6' short board in the past and its still going strong.

You have got me interested again I have a play in AKUshaper and post up a couple of ideas, i would be interested in what you come up with as well.

Cheers

Can you attach files in the forum?
I have a few aku files, and a set of templates I have made up in illustrator that anyone is welcome to use or modify.

Cheers chris

Hi all,

...sorry about the last post got it figured out. Here is a link to the aku file if anyone wants it

docs.google.com/file/d/0B1nyzKK33tOqWlZuNmlBLXpmb2M/edit?usp=sharing

Here is a bit of an illustrator template of what i am thinking about.



cheers chris

For your first Simmons, around 8' is a good length.

I would do a true Simmons rather than your design however: wider tail and fins in the the corners, on the tail edge, if you want to experience a different feeling than a traditional board.
With your fin placement you will not get the kind of "hovercraft" feeling of a Simmons, and the board will turn too early when put on the rail, not letting the tail corners sink enough for grip. You design will work (I would advise using 5 fins, nice on wide tails), but more like a traditional board.

For our next Simmons SUP prototypes, we are going shorter, Patrice Guenol? with a 6'10" square nose:


and for me a semi-pointed nose 6'10"

try lavender composites in QLD for cork sheet by the meter i believe.

Fridge pump can go pretty good. try the local tip shop.
some cheap vac pups for refrigeration work on ebay, but i havent looked for a while.

Select to expand quote

Bertie said...
try lavender composites in QLD for cork sheet by the meter i believe.

Fridge pump can go pretty good. try the local tip shop.
some cheap vac pups for refrigeration work on ebay, but i havent looked for a while.

you wont need a paddle for that.

Thanks for the info everyone,

Have been mulling over tail dimensions for a while, will widen things up i think.
Have cut templates and have been mucking about with them on the floor to get the feel of the dimensions.

Still not sure about tail rocker... the existing simmons sups seem to have around 2" to 3" but the original simmons is supposed to be nearly flat. And still not sure how much nose rocker to add to this design. Maybe 6" is too much? Colas do you have any opinions on this?

Have built a hotwire, used a car battery charger I had kicking about put in the specs and length into an online calculator and went and bought a guitar string that matched the gauge nichrome wire it recommended. Works a treat!

Have started to build the Project AVS pump from the joe woodworker site, am waiting on parts to arrive. Have built air chambers and chassis to mount the kit on. Need to bolt on pump motor and wait for the mailman.

Ordered corkcore and innegra from Lavender Composites in Bris
Ordered Carbon Cloth from OS

Ordered Blank thanks to help from river rider.

Next is to order fins & boxes (will use Lance the local probox dude he has got me sorted before) + am after one of those new FCS vented handles.

Will post some progress pics if anyone is interested... don't want to clog up the forum with a heap of rubbish if this is all old news to people though.

Cheers Chris

Looking forward to seeing the finished product at the " TassieSUP Winter Classic"

It is taking a fair while to get prepped properly.. could be winter classsic 2020!!

Anyway here is a bit of a progress report...



hot wire set up for a bit of foam cutting... will ad wiring so it can move around a blank. Battery charger was just a cheap pne I had knocking about puts out 12.5 v at 2.5 amps which is about right for a heavy gauge at unwound g string. Width is 820mm.



outline cut, still has a few bumps that need smoothing at this point.



I read about a shaping tip by dave daum on standup zone that said boards should have their widest section of rail forward of the centreline, thought i would measure a few of my favourite boards and this rule seems to hold up for them. So retuned my rocker templates to match



Had a good look at the nose rocker on my superfish XL 7'4" it has a flat entry rocker but seems to make drops no worries. Making me think 6" entry rocker is too much and is just going to cause drag (wind and water) I like the step rails on this board they push the volume right out to the rails and then have a subtle step down for a thinner rail profile. Might have to go this way.

Have been trying to join standupzone forum to ask a couple of questions, have tried 3 different email addresses and used sensible names as per site instructions but am unable to get a reply, does anyone have any suggestions? Maybe i should just hangout here more instead.

Cheers Chris

Keep the info coming Chris. Really enjoying it - who cares about the others!

Cheers Logialad

I am kind of looking for a design that is a bit of a hybrid.

I want the board to be abale to catch waves at a local east coast break when they start out fat on the point, but then be able to handle faster hollowish sections on the inside when the break hits the beach.

I know my naish nalu would catch the waves early but would get snapped in half in the inside section unless i take the sensible out and pull out early.

So i am kind of after something that i can nurse through the flatter sections and then sort of slingshot into the beach break section. And not have to worry too much about snappage.

Cheers Chris

Select to expand quote

highvolume said...
Still not sure about tail rocker... the existing simmons sups seem to have around 2" to 3" but the original simmons is supposed to be nearly flat. And still not sure how much nose rocker to add to this design. Maybe 6" is too much? Colas do you have any opinions on this?

2" to 3" tail rocker is nice I think, I used hybrid windsurfing/SUP boards with flatter rocker but didn't like them for SUP, you had to force too much on the tail to turn, breaking the flow.

Front rocker kills the paddling speed. In my opinion, an upturned nose is not a good thing in "fun" waves, as if it hits water, it brakes suddenly, making you nosedive even more. You want a treamlined nose that will pierce through water and surface without killing the speed. going down from rollers in hollow waves is another thing, though :-) 6" seems a tad big.

Thanks Colas

Have taken your suggestions onboard, am keen for the full hovercraft experience.
dims are 7'10" x 32"

lh5.googleusercontent.com/-c38Qp_jZLps/UWvAB8ndq1I/AAAAAAAAAeY/OXC0gU6DoSo/s1217/simmons+new+shape.tiff

Given tail a widen, added a bit more to the nose, cut out a new template out of 3mm mdf today. Rocker is going flatter in nose will go for about 4 1/2"

not sure where to stick fins or how much toe in... has anyone got any ideas on this?

Cheers Chris

I would put them as close to the corners as practically possible, toe-in somewhat similar to low values of standard boards (I am no expert here, others will have better opinion). Do not forget to add the big rear concave, of course...

3 FCS plugs will allows to use some very nice keel fins, but you should reinforce them a lot, these big fins get a lot of pressure on them in turns. You can then put symmetrically foiled fins on them when you want to go fast, and flat-inside foils when you are in a more "hotdogging" mood...

My Simmons have normal rails in the midsection and tail, and 50/50 up front. 50/50 all the way could be interesting, to maximize speed, but I didn't test this option (yet?)

Select to expand quote

highvolume said...
Thanks Colas

Have taken your suggestions onboard, am keen for the full hovercraft experience.
dims are 7'10" x 32"

lh5.googleusercontent.com/-c38Qp_jZLps/UWvAB8ndq1I/AAAAAAAAAeY/OXC0gU6DoSo/s1217/simmons+new+shape.tiff

Given tail a widen, added a bit more to the nose, cut out a new template out of 3mm mdf today. Rocker is going flatter in nose will go for about 4 1/2"

not sure where to stick fins or how much toe in... has anyone got any ideas on this?

Cheers Chris

Hey chris
I have made a few sup iam using 4ws fins and boxes as they allow u to adjust toe in ,camber and front and back. My first board i got toe in wrong now i can adjust and experiment - one less thing to have to worry about. Easy to adjust and install boxes.
I also use a hot wire - i cut duplicate rocker templates , glue onto side of EPS block then run hot wire around then cut plan shape out with t hand saw. and you 3/4 shaped blank in about 15 min.- i have previously used VH but thinking about going down to H grade as saves 1/2 kg on a 100ltr board some guys previously recommend using M but maybe be bit harder to shape and seal blank although vacuuming may help with out gassing etc.
Iam trying to set up vacumn set up as well but still bring to sort out fridge compressor deal as when u disconnect from old fridges and u cut wiring from thermostats etc, i don't know if this breaks the circuit from the relay thus when u get it home and plug the cable in it doesn't work , so aim tring to find out if u can stick a multi meter on the compressor terminals to test before u drag the compressor home . any info on this would be appreciated
Hope this helps
brad

HI Brad,

thanks for the info on the 4ws fins, i havent seen them before, i like the idea of full adjustability.

I was going to go the fridge compressor route, however when I sat down with one that was given to me by a tech at work i really had no idea what to do with the wires.

I ended up getting a second hand thomas pump off ebay for about $80 which was kind of the easy way out for me.

I bought the: Project: EVS? Auto-Cycling Pump Vacuum Press Kit from www.veneersupplies.com/ it ended up costing about $240 shipped to australia with the 240v option. You need to spend about another $50 in bits to get it happening. Although you might find bits for it hanging about. You need 1m of 100mm pvc pipe + endcaps (i bought this and then found a heap under my house). Some plywood or mdf to make the base and a basic 240v switch and powercord.

I understand the fridge compressors work well but are slow to pull a vacuum, you could use an old gas bottle as a vacuum reservoir with a line tap on it. Then when you are ready to bag the board open the tap to the gas bottle and use it to do the initial work, then the motor can suck out what is left.

Cheers Chris

before you seal the vac bag up use your hoover to suck as much of the air out as possible.
That way the vac pump can got to working with low volumes like its designed to.

I found the vac pump thing easy. i just removed the thermostat stuff completely, but that means it runs continuously. however you can buy an easy programable timer at dick smiths to make it run for 2 min every 5 or whatever you feel you need.

The vac tank combined with the timer will give a great system provided you get a good seal on the vac bag.

I'd suggest in investing on a vac guage too.

Hey chris and alex
thanks for the vac tips guys , i have though about the easy way out and just buying one too but keep holding out to make one up.
Good idea about the timer switch that a easy way of doing it , i have read a few detailed descriptions on how to build them - ww25.dream-models.com/eco/vacuumpump.html
which r fine they use a advance regulate value from a old carbie.
i just have to get a compressor to work !!! i have just got my big block of foam 2.5mx1.2x0.6 in h grade, $440 from foamed in sydney i should get enough sup and kite boards out of it to last a while
thanks again guys
Brad

Just about finished my vac pump.

Need to now finish wiring and all is done.
If anybody is interested in buying a kit from the veeneer supplies site make sure you buy the 1/4" npt tap off them at the same time. I didn't and after chasing around town for one it ended up costing $54 (because npt is not widely used in Aus they are a bit scarce). Which is no big deal but you might as well buy one for $7 off the site and then spend the rest on something more fun.





Over on Swaylocks there is a Low tech Vac bagging Discussion that has been happening. Someone posted a pic of a setup that is made from an aquarium pump and a sauce bottle. Apparently it works ok! Made me feel like i have gone a bit over the top... but anyway i suppose you got have a hobby.

www.swaylocks.com/forums/low-tech-vac-bag-stuffpaging-keith-resinhgdaddybernieall-sd-people

Next task: get beer fridge moved to shaping area.

Cheers Chris

HI,

jast another thought.....

Seeing as i am doing a Simmons inspired board, i read that Simmons had a small bump in the last section of rail to help the board release water flow cleanly. It is really just a kink in the outline shape.... eg the last four or five inches of these boards:



Versus a straight flowing rail like this



I have tried to keep my rails smooth and pretty straight, does any one think it is worth me putting a bump in the last bit of rail?

Probably over thinking this, but there was a ripper discussion on Simmons style sups over at standupzone that got killed off, maybe some of that crew would like to continue over on this forum? Colas was one of the main crew on that discussion along with another guy going by the name of strandleper who has some wicked stuff happening.

Cheers Chris

Well, I am just a recent Simmons convert, so I can only share my limited experience. I can only compare these shapes I have ridden a lot:

A wombat-like quad, Gong Mutant 2011 6'9"



(Center) A bit the same kind of shape, but with double winger, Gong One 6'8", 5 fins





A Simmons Gong AS 8', with 2 keel fins on the tail





The first 2 shapes are very fun and fast, but are ridden more like a compromise between a fish and a traditional mini-mal surfboard. The Simmons, on the other hand, has more latency, it likes getting up to speed,and them banked into turns like a (very nimble) plane. I'd say that plenty of shapes will work, but differently, and fin placement can change drastically the feel of a board.

How this is the result of the rear outline curves/hips, I couldn't say. I would suspect the fin placement & rear concave are the most important. Dimensions of the boards can be found on the Gong site.

PS: yes, I think all english-speaking should leave standupzone for seabreeze (or ideally, a SUP forum not depending on SUP ads). The recent heavy hidden censorship on standupzone totally destroys any attempt to any meaningful technical discussion. My account have even been banned, so I cannot even see my MPs there...

This is from the Infinity SUP website. I've been looking at Dave's boards for a while now and this one popped up in my searching. There is a good little clip on the site of Dave surfing one of his as well.

Hi Jaydub,

I really like the look of those phoenix boards, they seem to be going through a pretty radical pace of progression. They seem to be thinning the tails down on the recent ones. I think i am sticking to the super wide template, i like the idea of a board that really banks from rail to rail and goes down the line fast.

I have ordered all the materials in quantity to make 2 boards for starters so the second will be a progression of the first so will slim things down in the back end if needed for up at bicheno where I am planning on using it.

The rolls of CorkCore NL20 and Innegra arrived during the week.
Lance from Hanalei FIn sytems has sorted me out with a Quad fin setups with pro boxes. He has recommended the QS & QBS HRD-Kore Quad Combo. His suggestions for re-finning my naish nalu transformed that board.

At the moment i like the look of these corran retro chined rails



I also like the look of these Tom Wegener vacuum rails as well.. might have to find out some more info.



Cheers Chris