Some Performance Longboards..

Starboard longboard 9 x 28 100L
Smik Twin 9.2 x 28 120L
Sunova Style 9.6 x 27.5 112L
Gong Zero 9 x 29.5 115L

Wondered if anyone can shed any light on this. Performance longboard sups seem to be wider and be more voluminous than their shortboard performance equivalent. Why is this?

Prone Longboards aren't overly wide and litres seem on par with that of prone shortboards.

But with Sups the gap is huge.. For example the smallest litre starboard shortboard is 7 x 24 66L.

Is the message from shapers that with longboard sups you don't benefit from lower volume and narrower shapes?

Interested to hear any views..

Most prone longboards are close to double the volume of the equivalent surfers short board.... my short boards are around 40L and my LB's are about 80L...

LB SUPs dont need to be a race to the bottom of volume IMO. It's about glide and grace, not having the smallest board possible.

All LB sup comps here in oz are set at a minimum length of 10'.

Once you start to go under 27" wide, shapers really limit the market they can sell to. Obviously brands like Infinity, Deep, Sunova, Smik, One etc can make a custom at whatever dims you like....

FYI Infinity do a 9' x 26" x 93L New Deal as a stock board...

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IanInca said..
Is the message from shapers that with longboard sups you don't benefit from lower volume and narrower shapes?

Most longboard shapes are used in weak slow waves, where volume is an advantage. And if you need the performance of a low width and volume, why hamper it then with a long length?

Also, the market for true longboard SUPs (not stable cruisers for beginners) is already very small, and for narrow longboard SUPs it is so small as to not be worth a production line. And if you are a pro-level SUP rider, you can just... use a prone longboard to SUP on it, maybe with just reinforcing the deck underfoot.

Gong has narrow longboard SUPs in "production" from time to time, but in very limited quantities (3 max), more for the shaper pleasure than for business reasons. They are the "SP" models, see for instance currently the Freak SP at 26" width instead of 30" for the regular model:
https://www.gong-galaxy.com/en/product/gong-sup-92-freak-120-sp-pro-2019-2/
And you have the "origin" models at around 28", in 3 different retro shapes: Soul, Pampa, Neverstick.
Smaller volumes are only offered as custom orders, the market is not worth a production line.

Also, SUP shapers have refined their craft and do not need to resort to ultra-narrow shapes for performance. You can see that most shortboard SUP production ranges are much wider than some years ago, and the new Genration boards keep a comfy width (for a pro) even in contests.

Myself, I had a narrow Moblog SP (9'3"x27"x118l), but I resold it. If you are not a dedicated noserider (hanging ten), it is not worth it in my view. Having a more all around shape with some longboard-like glide and some width in the nose like the Gong Karmen is just fine for hanging five, and much more versatile.

Wondered if anyone can shed any light on this. Performance longboard sups seem to be wider and be more voluminous than their shortboard performance equivalent. Why is this?

To design any kind of board and making them manoeuvrable, outline angle from the tail and its fins set up to the widest point of the outline has to be more pointy rather than parallel.
Once that said talking about SUP needing width for stability, that same outline angle has to be designed involving larger dims once multiplied by cubic gives lot more volume than a prone board.

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Hoppo3228 said..
Most prone longboards are close to double the volume of the equivalent surfers short board.... my short boards are around 40L and my LB's are about 80L...

LB SUPs dont need to be a race to the bottom of volume IMO. It's about glide and grace, not having the smallest board possible.

All LB sup comps here in oz are set at a minimum length of 10'.

Once you start to go under 27" wide, shapers really limit the market they can sell to. Obviously brands like Infinity, Deep, Sunova, Smik, One etc can make a custom at whatever dims you like....

FYI Infinity do a 9' x 26" x 93L New Deal as a stock board...

Yeah, that all makes sense. I love this video 9f board in 1ft surf. I think this is the New Deal 93L board you mentioned.

infinitysup.ca/video/new-deal-sup-surf-infinity-boards/

I guess my loaded question was I'm loving the modern longboarding sups as I feel you have 2 boards in one - tail short board feel mid to front longsup. I'm around 70kgs and love my Zero at 115L. I'm an average surfer (but improving! ) and wondered if dropping to something like that New deal board would benefit me or due to the reasons outlined above I wouldn't gain that much. The clip certainly suggests its very manoeuvrable and quick. Patrice at Gong is a great longboarder and he is around 90kgs and rides the Zero (amongst other boards) @ 115L.

Long winded and probably boring for most (!) is I can definitely see the benefits of going as narrow as possible and low litres for snappy turns and hollow surf for shortboards but will you see benefits with lower litre/width board for Longboards in small to medium average surf.

As always there's very little chance to try these boards as they are niche..

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IanInca said..
Patrice at Gong is a great longboarder and he is around 90kgs and rides the Zero (amongst other boards) @ 115L.

But if you look at his old videos, he was also quite radical with a 200 liter board :-)

Reducing width and volume is very useful in hollow waves, but hollow waves break long boards (especially thin ones), so you must ask yourself if it is worth the risk. For added nimbleness in everyday waves, I think lightness, especially in the nose, is more important: better shed kilograms than liters. A (well built) ultralight board with a comfy volume get you the best of both worlds: glide and nimbleness.

This said, at 70kg, for powerful waves, you can go down to 85/90 liters with too much trouble on a longboard SUP. It could even be quite interesting in summer (when falling is no issue) to challenge yourself SUPing a 80l prone longboard, especially if you can find a cheap 2nd hand one. It will definitively a tool to improve your technique, and something to do on flat days, but it may not be the board you will like to use daily.

I sometimes sup our old Bic 10' epoxy longboard (in summer!) it's something like 221/2" and I guess around 90l. When the conditions are right I love it! I'm only 65kg so heaps of volume, just a matter of getting used to the domed deck and the width.

My prone 10' log has twice the volume as my prone 6' shortboard.
I have a 9x28 120l longboard sup that feels most moments like a shortboard and with a very small shortboard like tail can handle easily the hollow. But it is at my minimum volume and at that width a bit of a diva board- only the best days.
The longboard feel for me starts at over 10' for in a sup. And with a significant volume advantage.
My older ones at 28 wide were super loose but my new ones at 30+ wide are loose enough for a longboard, and now super stable.

Enjoying reading peoples comments but its still as clear as mud.

If for the reasons stated above glide, volume etc of a larger volume longboard sup then why are prone Longboards not doing the same? Surely the norm for prone longboards would be 80 to 110L and 25 to 28" wide in stead of the 21 to 25" and mainly less than 75L. Surely they are benefitting from something?

I may have to nswer my own question (and have an excuse to buy another board!). Theres a used prone 9'2 longboard at 91L and 25.25 for sale...

Longboard sups are made relatively wider to make it possible to stand on them for long periods. With the leverage you get surfing them with a paddle, the width doesn't become a hindrance.

Prone surfboards don't have the luxury of having a paddle to use as leverage.

I've tried surfing my LB sup prone and whilst it was reasonably easy to paddle into waves (allowing for board width) when surfing it without a paddle it was so hard to turn... it was stiffer than a prone log.

Yes a narrower board will always provide more 'performance'. But you still need curve in the outline to allow for turns.

My LB sup is 28" wide and it is noticeably faster down the line and rail to rail than my wider sup boards.

It is also way easier to prone paddle a 22" wide longboard, than my 28" sup.

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Hoppo3228 said..
Longboard sups are made relatively wider to make it possible to stand on them for long periods. With the leverage you get surfing them with a paddle, the width doesn't become a hindrance.

Prone surfboards don't have the luxury of having a paddle to use as leverage.

I've tried surfing my LB sup prone and whilst it was reasonably easy to paddle into waves (allowing for board width) when surfing it without a paddle it was so hard to turn... it was stiffer than a prone log.

Yes a narrower board will always provide more 'performance'. But you still need curve in the outline to allow for turns.

My LB sup is 28" wide and it is noticeably faster down the line and rail to rail than my wider sup boards.

It is also way easier to prone paddle a 22" wide longboard, than my 28" sup.

That's a great comparison and explanation.. Thanks

Yes gents, shaping is a complex combo of curves. As I'm thinking that when I design the next board for my son. It's a prone board still the same alchemy.
www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Account=6301&BoardName=MACH_1

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colas said..

IanInca said..
Is the message from shapers that with longboard sups you don't benefit from lower volume and narrower shapes?

Most longboard shapes are used in weak slow waves, where volume is an advantage. And if you need the performance of a low width and volume, why hamper it then with a long length?

Also, the market for true longboard SUPs (not stable cruisers for beginners) is already very small, and for narrow longboard SUPs it is so small as to not be worth a production line. And if you are a pro-level SUP rider, you can just... use a prone longboard to SUP on it, maybe with just reinforcing the deck underfoot.

Gong has narrow longboard SUPs in "production" from time to time, but in very limited quantities (3 max), more for the shaper pleasure than for business reasons. They are the "SP" models, see for instance currently the Freak SP at 26" width instead of 30" for the regular model:
https://www.gong-galaxy.com/en/product/gong-sup-92-freak-120-sp-pro-2019-2/
And you have the "origin" models at around 28", in 3 different retro shapes: Soul, Pampa, Neverstick.
Smaller volumes are only offered as custom orders, the market is not worth a production line.

Also, SUP shapers have refined their craft and do not need to resort to ultra-narrow shapes for performance. You can see that most shortboard SUP production ranges are much wider than some years ago, and the new Genration boards keep a comfy width (for a pro) even in contests.

Myself, I had a narrow Moblog SP (9'3"x27"x118l), but I resold it. If you are not a dedicated noserider (hanging ten), it is not worth it in my view. Having a more all around shape with some longboard-like glide and some width in the nose like the Gong Karmen is just fine for hanging five, and much more versatile.

Colas, just re-reading your response....

You said fairly narrow and low litre Longboards aren't advantageous because of the loss of speed/glide in slower waves. But you had a 27" wide 118L longboard. 27 is fairly narrow and (I think u r around 95kgs) that would be 1.2 x weight which is fairly low, surely thats a slight contradiction. By the same measure at 70kgs x 1.2 = 84L...

My Sunova Style
10' x 29 @ 130 liters

It's the narrowest, lowest liter board I ride.
9'0 x 31 Flash @133 liters
9'1 x 31 Creek @ 136 liters

Jimmy Lewis Destroyer 10' x 29. 125 Ltrs




My black and yellow board love the pulled in tail board works in big or small surf..Best allround 10" board i have ridden in a while

Hi, can I ask what weight or weight to litre ratio you both are?

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IanInca said..
You said fairly narrow and low litre Longboards aren't advantageous because of the loss of speed/glide in slower waves. But you had a 27" wide 118L longboard. 27 is fairly narrow and (I think u r around 95kgs) that would be 1.2 x weight which is fairly low, surely thats a slight contradiction. By the same measure at 70kgs x 1.2 = 84L...

Yes, and it didn't work well in small weak slow waves. I used short and fat boards (6'10" x 30 / 31" x 125l) for slow waves.

I used this narrow low volume longboard SUP for when I needed paddling speed (far away peaks, big rips), and kind of "phantom" peaks with shifting take off zones, but that could have some power afterwards. More as a cruiser than a noserider, actually.

For a longboard for weak waves, I would have chosen more volume to help with the takeoff, to reduce the board drag while paddling.

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colas said..

IanInca said..
You said fairly narrow and low litre Longboards aren't advantageous because of the loss of speed/glide in slower waves. But you had a 27" wide 118L longboard. 27 is fairly narrow and (I think u r around 95kgs) that would be 1.2 x weight which is fairly low, surely thats a slight contradiction. By the same measure at 70kgs x 1.2 = 84L...

Yes, and it didn't work well in small weak slow waves. I used short and fat boards (6'10" x 30 / 31" x 125l) for slow waves.

I used this narrow low volume longboard SUP for when I needed paddling speed (far away peaks, big rips), and kind of "phantom" peaks with shifting take off zones, but that could have some power afterwards. More as a cruiser than a noserider, actually.

For a longboard for weak waves, I would have chosen more volume to help with the takeoff, to reduce the board drag while paddling.

Good point.. So if we say normally..

Pro factor is 1 to 1.1
Advanced is 1.2 to 1.4
Intermediate 1.5 to 1.6
Beginner = 1.7 and up

What do we think is the ideal ratio for longboard sups. Enough glide for slow weak waves and enough fun factor to feel engaged with the waves when it has a bit of punch?

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IanInca said..
What do we think is the ideal ratio for longboard sups. Enough glide for slow weak waves and enough fun factor to feel engaged with the waves when it has a bit of punch?

I think that when the board tail is under water when you paddle, you begin to lose the glide of a retro longboard. I don't know exactly at which ratio it happens, it may depend of the shape and volume distribution I guess.

Just picked up a board that fits in to Colas' glider description further up, flatter rockered and more pulled in nose but should still perform! 9'5 x 28" x 115 litres. Just sold my stylemaster 9' so hoping to get a balance of longboard performance and small wave glide out of this one but in a different manner. Should be fun working it out!