Hi forumers ... considering starting foiling ... almost did a year ago - but decided against as didn't want to lose sup skills / trade rail work for a new sport , and love supping small wave sups (90-100ltr) .... Looking at foiling again though now ! ...

Big question - once you've ridden 100's of waves - does it get a bit repetitive ? I don't want to put time into a new sport at the expense of normal supping - only to find in a few years that Im over that gliding in poor conditions - because the poor surf that foiling exploits doesnt offer too much variance in what you can do (after a year or 2 ) ... For instance - a local guy Ive been watching the last few years is doing pretty much the same still now - nice flowing lines and wide turns - but still - I wonder if that gets a bit repetitive after a while ? ....

Please convince me - Im keen on foiling .... but not if it turns out to be fairly limited in the long run ...

what you think ?

You don't have to foil in small waves all the time, though you will in the beginning. People are foiling the biggest waves out there.

I do not think you can get bored with it. It may seem repetitive from the outside (just like surfing), but in my experience, you need to read more the wave in 3D to really exploit it, i.e. really power through carving turns rather than just going straight and pumping. Plus foiling opens up quite new interesting ways of enjoying yourself, either connecting waves, pumping, jumping. And it will ease learning WInging if you are in a windy spot.

But I guess it depends a lot on your conditions. Foiling also comes with drawbacks (price, danger, cost, need to always be in control) so at the end of the day it depends if the advantages override the drawbacks for you. For instance I seldom foil anymore because where I live the waves can be quite powerful (=> broken gear), change a lot with the tides, and I surf quite early so I can avoid crowds and onshore winds. Plus once you get used to run a mile to the spot with a 5kg SUP, doing the same with foiling gear is not attractive. But if I lived in a region with gentler waves or mostly crappy waves, or insane crowds, I would be foiling most of the time.

And it does not mess up with your SUPing skills. In the learning phases, yes, but quickly you will switch with no issues. I still foil once every 3 months in average when the conditions are good for it. For me it is part of a quiver, just like a longboard, Simmons, bodyboard, or bodysurf fins...However, it seems to me that SUP foiling is kind of fading out, people bothered by too much gear tend to rather surf foil, while people wanting to maximize their water time are taking up Wingfoiling instead. SUP foiling is being cannibalized by them. Myself, I think I would have taken up surf foiling instead if I was still young and flexible, or WIng foiling if I lived in a region with more wind and less gear-stressing.

It get's boring in the same way surfing get's boring. You can always learn something new, but it's going to get riskier and riskier.

It makes crappy days super high performance. It makes a 2 foot wave feel like a head high wave. What's more fun to ride? A 2 foot wave on your SUP or a head high wave on your SUP? So the foil can make crappy days more enjoyable than the good days where everyone and their brother are out.

I was thinking the same ,seabreezer,...but I bit the bullet yesterday and put a down payment on some 2018 gear ,but i went for a board you can surf SUP as well
the 120 litre naish hover ,i enjoyed my 128 raptor when i had it ,shouldn't of sold it ...which was a bit short i felt ,so the hover is 7,6 which is still good for sup .
i can or will enjoy both SUP and foil with the same board ,hopefully I'm a bit nervous about foiling ,as it seems a long way to fall ..
but it looks amazing .and the speed they seem to generate ..in even unbroken waves ..we have so many days in my area at high tide ..where its not breaking well and no-one out
thats what my target is ..and maybe take the foil off and go surf later when it does break ,the raptors (NOW THE HOVER )are very good in small surf and very fast .

I can't wait to try it ..

So if I go Tardy option (something that foils and sups) ..... And say the sup x-over is 6'11 , and the dedicated foil is 6'0 (in the sizes I want to get - Naish) - how much of a hindrance is the extra foot length to foiling ...?

Just go with the dedicated Sup/Foil board.. Shorter and chunkier.. You will never want to just sup surf it without a foil. anyway.

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seabreezer said..
So if I go Tardy option (something that foils and sups) ..... And say the sup x-over is 6'11 , and the dedicated foil is 6'0 (in the sizes I want to get - Naish) - how much of a hindrance is the extra foot length to foiling ...?

It makes a huge huge difference, I actually don't know how you sup guys do it.
i started on 5,10". It was a so bad.
moved to a 4,8" it was better in every way possible.
now onto a 4,4 and it's even better.
so next I want to go to a 4,0"

I ride 1ft - 4ft waves.

the smaller the board, the better the pumping is. the smaller the board the more whippy it is in the carves.

SMALLER THE BETTER!!!!

This is a great question. WOW!

Ok, I started Surf Foiling in Feb of 2017 (had kite foiled prior a small amount many years ago). My first session was on the 2nd. It was on the First Naish Malolo 10'8" with the Malolo Foil (equivalent to the M/1050). The session was good, took it easy, for up for a split second, no dramas. Ride a barely breaking point, super mellow.

3rd Feb. Decided this was easy, went to the other end of the beach and rode head high beachies. Got 1 magic glide, then ate shyte like no tomorrow.

4th Feb. Got out behind the boat to work out where it all went wrong. Learned a lot! Stable flight. Very few taco's and crashes.

5th Feb. Back behind the boat. Learned to pump and get up at slow speed and basic turns.

6th Feb - 8th Feb hit the waves again. Ate it that many times I lost count. Bend my mast, snapped 2x paddles on the rail and nearly broke my ribs. I nearly called it at this point!

18th Feb. Got creative when a replacement mast arrived and a plate mount. Literally drilled 4 holes through my Hokua 7'3" and bolted it in tight. No box, no HD foam. Got out behind the boat and got my first wake glide (no rope). anchored the boat and and ran over the spit to hit the waves. First wave, proned in and went 200m on a right hander. then 200m on a left hander. then repeated all morning til I couldn't paddle anymore. Came in from the surf, email Naish and ordered 20x Foils! This to me was now a thing.

11th March. DIY modification to my Raptor and started SUP Foiling again (was prone foiling every day in between).

From here I have never looked back. I go through stages where I concentrate on one form of Foiling, then move on to try another and then back. SUP, Prone, Pumping, Down Winding, Hard carving, Distance, windsurf and Now Wing. The cool thing is, just like surfing, you can get so much from riding different gear. Generall when you start, you'll go through these milestones and it's all you want to do for the next 3 months.
- Stoked just to get up :)
- Get your first long rides.
- Start to turn.
- Start to basic pump.
- get your first hard turns.
- learn to really pump (you think).
- Ride prone (if you're not already).
- go back to SUP as you get more waves.
- Work out how to really Pump (you think).
- Start getting actual LONG rides.
- Start linking up waves.
- Go back to prone and tiny boards.
- Go back to SUP and tiny boards.
- Add a sail.
- Back to short waves and carving.
- Start riding massive foils.
- Back to long mellow waves and going far.
- Learn to actually pump ;) and start to play with DW'ing.
- Get your first DW'er which was more paddling then gliding.
- Go back to longer SUP's as you miss the paddle speed.
- Go back to Prone.
- Actually learn how to pump.
- Go back to SUP and get an actual DW'er. This changes everything!
- Start getting really really long waves.
- Go shorter again on your SUP and Prone.
- Go longer again on your SUP and Prone.
- Start to really turn
- go back to smaller foils.
- Start DW'ing properly - This is amazing.
- Actually learn to pump!
- Start get some amazing turns,
- Go back to prone,
- Back to SUP,
- Learn to WING!!! This is amazing!

Anyway, you get the picture. Every progression you learn something and take something with you. Every stage is overwhelmingly amazing and will totally take over your life. Each time you make a progression (and their all progressions no matter what order you do it) your believe you've found it. Then you move onto another stage and guess what - you've found it! The truth is "IT" is so unimaginable that none of us know what it is. Foiling it limitless, and I can not imagine where it will end up. There is so many extra steps that I didn't add into theat time line above as I do not want to wreck the journey for you, but the entire trip is insane and definitely not boring. There's always another long wave that needs to be ridden, a DW'er then will blow your mind, Airs, Wings, Sails, Kites, Surf, Boogiefoiling, and it just goes on and on continually progressing.

Yes I still surf and SUP now. Not as much, and I love it when I do, but Foiling is what keeps me awake at night, searching on google and you tube, studying the pros, tweaking my gear and continually learning and progressing. I still froth like a grom and newby even 3+ years on.

Once you're in, you wont understand why you didn't try earlier. I look at all the crew that sat back and watched as we went through the learning curve now doing the curve them selves and think "man you shouildda just jumped on when we did".

Wish foiling came earlier. I am just as excited now as the first glide and always bettering, learning and progressing.

Don't wait.

Ride safe,

JB

Thats the stuff i wanna hear JB ...Foil froth ..

reading that I don't Feel so bad getting a slightly longer 7,6 board for learning .

i can't wait ...got my helmet ready ..I know i won't be stopping on one board ...
sounds like I'd better build a bigger shed .

Interesting you keep returning to prone foiling ,after wandering away to try other types of foiling , I have kite foiled and prone foiled and have just got a supfoil to paddle and Wing ding ,but even before I start the new journey I know in my heart for me prone foiling is my favorite, it's the least amount of gear and clutter for the most reward IMHO.

thanks replies - and great REPLY JB ....

Next question ... How much does going super short (like 5'7 naish sup foil ) ... affect your paddling ability back out to line up after insanely long rides .... ? .... WHat really also stalled my purchase a year ago was realisation you HAVE to paddle all the way back out on a tiny 5'7 ...! ... Then I was thinking 6'0 naish ... for ease of paddling out and catching fat waves (i surf 90 ltr sups so think I can deal with 6'0's or shorter pretty quick / quick learner ) ....

So go say 6'0 , or try and push for as short as poss for easier foiling and deal with the paddling pain ? (ie 5'7 / 95 ltr)

As for the potential - That Robert territeheau vid blew my mind .... Ive seen epic vids before kalama jnr / Zane etc ... but seeing Robert obviously bit older and killing it with new skills and throwing almost windsurf like 360 rotations really caught my attention ...

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seabreezer said..
thanks replies - and great REPLY JB ....

Next question ... How much does going super short (like 5'7 naish sup foil ) ... affect your paddling ability back out to line up after insanely long rides .... ? .... WHat really also stalled my purchase a year ago was realisation you HAVE to paddle all the way back out on a tiny 5'7 ...! ... Then I was thinking 6'0 naish ... for ease of paddling out and catching fat waves (i surf 90 ltr sups so think I can deal with 6'0's or shorter pretty quick / quick learner ) ....

So go say 6'0 , or try and push for as short as poss for easier foiling and deal with the paddling pain ? (ie 5'7 / 95 ltr)

As for the potential - That Robert territeheau vid blew my mind .... Ive seen epic vids before kalama jnr / Zane etc ... but seeing Robert obviously bit older and killing it with new skills and throwing almost windsurf like 360 rotations really caught my attention ...

If you got into it a year ago, there's a good chance you could pump back out by now (or a least some of the way).

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seabreezer said..
thanks replies - and great REPLY JB ....

Next question ... How much does going super short (like 5'7 naish sup foil ) ... affect your paddling ability back out to line up after insanely long rides .... ? .... WHat really also stalled my purchase a year ago was realisation you HAVE to paddle all the way back out on a tiny 5'7 ...! ... Then I was thinking 6'0 naish ... for ease of paddling out and catching fat waves (i surf 90 ltr sups so think I can deal with 6'0's or shorter pretty quick / quick learner ) ....

So go say 6'0 , or try and push for as short as poss for easier foiling and deal with the paddling pain ? (ie 5'7 / 95 ltr)

As for the potential - That Robert territeheau vid blew my mind .... Ive seen epic vids before kalama jnr / Zane etc ... but seeing Robert obviously bit older and killing it with new skills and throwing almost windsurf like 360 rotations really caught my attention ...

Paddling out on a shorter SUP Is no worries, one would think it would be super slow and kind of like prone paddling a 6ft surf board kind of speed but really it's heaps quicker. I paddle a 5'8 weight 77kg and paddling a long distance is fine. Once you learn how to keep it straight which takes no time at all then the short SUPs are bloody unreal!! I think getting the volume and width right is the most important part when it comes to picking the right size. I mostly ride 5'8 to 5'10 and on my proto boards run between 98L to 110L and production for a 5'10 is 107L.

As long as you are prepared to put the time into learning how to paddle a shorter SUP the reward is well worth it. BTW under 6ft is maybe good for 90kg and under once over this weight then adding a few inches in length might help.

On the foiling getting old question? I was probably one of the early people into it in Aus and still froth on going foiling everyday if possible. Wave riding is fun and i enjoy it but for me i love Downwinding and just the pure freedom it gives, riding swells for as long as you like with no one else around and not a worry in the world, how could this ever get old?

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toppleover said..

seabreezer said..
thanks replies - and great REPLY JB ....

Next question ... How much does going super short (like 5'7 naish sup foil ) ... affect your paddling ability back out to line up after insanely long rides .... ? .... WHat really also stalled my purchase a year ago was realisation you HAVE to paddle all the way back out on a tiny 5'7 ...! ... Then I was thinking 6'0 naish ... for ease of paddling out and catching fat waves (i surf 90 ltr sups so think I can deal with 6'0's or shorter pretty quick / quick learner ) ....

So go say 6'0 , or try and push for as short as poss for easier foiling and deal with the paddling pain ? (ie 5'7 / 95 ltr)

As for the potential - That Robert territeheau vid blew my mind .... Ive seen epic vids before kalama jnr / Zane etc ... but seeing Robert obviously bit older and killing it with new skills and throwing almost windsurf like 360 rotations really caught my attention ...

If you got into it a year ago, there's a good chance you could pump back out by now (or a least some of the way).

I think that pumping out the back is the one thing I won't want to learn or do ... looks a bit too 'chronic cardio' ! .... UNLESS ....
- you are 'resting' more on the wave vs sup surfing - ie gliding and leaning .... and the waveriding becomes a 'rest'

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paul.j said..
On the foiling getting old question? I was probably one of the early people into it in Aus and still froth on going foiling everyday if possible. Wave riding is fun and i enjoy it but for me i love Downwinding and just the pure freedom it gives, riding swells for as long as you like with no one else around and not a worry in the world, how could this ever get old?

What about wave catching on a 5'7 vs 6'0 ?.... Im 76 kgs .... was out with a foiler a few days ago , and some waves were going under him -couldnt generate enough glide to catch ...

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seabreezer said..

paul.j said..
On the foiling getting old question? I was probably one of the early people into it in Aus and still froth on going foiling everyday if possible. Wave riding is fun and i enjoy it but for me i love Downwinding and just the pure freedom it gives, riding swells for as long as you like with no one else around and not a worry in the world, how could this ever get old?

What about wave catching on a 5'7 vs 6'0 ?.... Im 76 kgs .... was out with a foiler a few days ago , and some waves were going under him -couldnt generate enough glide to catch ...

Never been a issue for me as it's not really about board speed to pump into a wave. Timing and getting power down when needed are the two main things.

If you can paddle a small board around then catching a wave really is not much of a issue. To low of volume might make life a little tougher so to start with keep the volume up.

It's crap, don't start it's a waste of money, it gets so boring just flying around on tiny waves you used to look at and go home. take up cycling or running .

I'll add my 2c.
In short no. Every session is different. Every wave is different. Just like surfing. You get used to constantly changing and evolving.
I'm hooked.

Sup Surf Foiling is just one of the few aspects of foiling . Sup foiling behind a boat is fun easy way to start foiling . On no wave days it's great to get out behind the boat and teach your friends . As you get better you can drop the rope and free ride. When your skills get better in the surf , you can look at paddle downwinding and also wingding which opens up a new world of foil fun in calm water and out in the ocean downwinding and surfing waves . Then comes prone foiling with unlimited genres of foiling . Out in the surf , dock starts , tow foiling and learning to pump back out and connect waves . We are even now catching a small wave and pumping back out to the bigger waves and surfing 100's of Metres down the beach .You can do the same on a Sup even easier.

Whether it's windy or tiny surf you will get more hours on the water with the foil than any other craft . Your skill set for all these genres will never stop improving . The only thing that will hold you back on foiling is your enthusiasm, once you get the foiling bug the sky is the limit and you will always improve with every session . The excuse that I'm too heavy or too old to do this is not relevant as foiling is the greatest weight loss programme on the planet and yeah might be harder when your older but you just need to try harder as regardless of age anyone can pump back out if you put the time in . It's a technique thing.

So to answer you question will foiling get old , it's your attitude not your ability. The sky is the limit and we are in the middle of the greatest R&D development programme for foiling , so much more is on the horizon to advance this incredible sport .

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seabreezer said..
thanks replies - and great REPLY JB ....

Next question ... How much does going super short (like 5'7 naish sup foil ) ... affect your paddling ability back out to line up after insanely long rides .... ? .... WHat really also stalled my purchase a year ago was realisation you HAVE to paddle all the way back out on a tiny 5'7 ...! ... Then I was thinking 6'0 naish ... for ease of paddling out and catching fat waves (i surf 90 ltr sups so think I can deal with 6'0's or shorter pretty quick / quick learner ) ....

So go say 6'0 , or try and push for as short as poss for easier foiling and deal with the paddling pain ? (ie 5'7 / 95 ltr)

As for the potential - That Robert territeheau vid blew my mind .... Ive seen epic vids before kalama jnr / Zane etc ... but seeing Robert obviously bit older and killing it with new skills and throwing almost windsurf like 360 rotations really caught my attention ...

It is funny you say this, as that is 100% the reason I ride the 110 over the 95. I love long rides. One o fthe spots I ride I constantly get 1.5-1.65km rides. You can not pump that far back out. I also love going off shore with the Wing and smaller boards get hard when you're tired. I can be out for 3-4 hours at a time without a break and getting to that point where you're falling in just getting up after a stack zapps soo much energy.

Yes smaller boards feel amazing when you're up and everything is perfect - 100%. And the better you get the more sessions you make perfect. But (for me) going longer makes more session perfect! I can pump out long distances, DW, Wing and surf all on the one board. I do not feel its size is holding me back.

You will want to go short. I went down to 4'4" prone for a while, and it was awesome. But now I ride 5'4" again and love it every session.

Also it will depend on what you want to get out of Foiling. If you're planning to ride short waves, pump out and link up, no that concerned with hard turning or riding fast then short is excellent. I love hard turns, going fast and long rides = Longer boards for me

Ride safe,

JB

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paul.j said..

seabreezer said..

paul.j said..
On the foiling getting old question? I was probably one of the early people into it in Aus and still froth on going foiling everyday if possible. Wave riding is fun and i enjoy it but for me i love Downwinding and just the pure freedom it gives, riding swells for as long as you like with no one else around and not a worry in the world, how could this ever get old?

What about wave catching on a 5'7 vs 6'0 ?.... Im 76 kgs .... was out with a foiler a few days ago , and some waves were going under him -couldnt generate enough glide to catch ...

Never been a issue for me as it's not really about board speed to pump into a wave. Timing and getting power down when needed are the two main things.

If you can paddle a small board around then catching a wave really is not much of a issue. To low of volume might make life a little tougher so to start with keep the volume up.

50/50 on this one. When you're learning a longer board will 100% help you get waves. Once you work out how to paddle and pump and take advantage of a shorter board then you can actually get more waves on a shorter board (with excellent skills). But without the necessary skills going too short leads to yawing, missing waves and the absence of swing weight can also make it tricky depending on your skills.

I always advocate don't be scared of going a little longer.

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DavidJohn said..
Just go with the dedicated Sup/Foil board.. Shorter and chunkier.. You will never want to just sup surf it without a foil. anyway.

what he said ;-) Crossover boards are worst of both worlds