Hi all:)

Been following this forum for a while and thought it was about time to contribute with something.

Beeing an R&D-engineer within windenergy I have access to aaaallll sorts of materials and building supplies Because of this, I regularly spit out frankenboards just to nurse my curiosity.

My latest project was to see if I could build a board with insane early release for light dw days and/or minimal waves. Also wanted to see what tradeoffs it would bring.

Concept:
1. super round bottom - will cause gradually release instead of more flat bottomed boards that are either flying or definitely not flying.
2. large volume and even volume distribution - for bobbing the board onto fly-mode without water wrapping onto to of deck
3. high pintail like on dugout SUPs. Again- easier to perform the pumping motion that will get the board flying..

Does i work? Indeed. Fell on my ass on first wave as the board popped into the air. The transition between being in the water and out of the water is so damn smooth.

Tradeoffs - BALANCE. Only tried the board once, and in the end of session I got (more) used to the rolling and missing edges. Its 27"something wide, but feels way more narrow:D

That is cool! That could be the new wingding board design.

Interesting design but that nose is going to track badly . Its when you touch back down it will shoot off to the left or right throwing you off. Might be ok on calm days but will be a handful on windy days . Keep us posted with the more you ride it on how it goes , I might be wrong .

are you flatwater starting it in those pictures - I don't see any swell whatsoever!?!

by the way, I love what you're doing here and would love to hear more of your thoughts, and also maybe more about other shapes that you've tried for this - what works, what doesn't. I think early release is something not enough people are optimizing for, which is surprising given that as soon as the board it out of the water, its a useless mass of foam.

Piros- yes had the same thought about the bow catching on touchdowns. I mainly added the sharp ridge to get a little more traction when paddling on the water. Also - it is easier to remove a feature like that, than to add it:D

Look forward getting a proper downwinder on this board!

was wingdinging it the other day. Worked ok, but it was also like balancing/sailing those old Div II windsurfers.

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jondrums said..
by the way, I love what you're doing here and would love to hear more of your thoughts, and also maybe more about other shapes that you've tried for this - what works, what doesn't. I think early release is something not enough people are optimizing for, which is surprising given that as soon as the board it out of the water, its a useless mass of foam.

That was exactly my thoughts. And a board designed for surf/small wings and large wings should be different. Most boards today can nearly go onto planning mode which there is no need for

Better pic of contours

Hull speed for a 7ft board is 4knots, which might be just enough to get out of the water on a big foil. If not, we need a planing hull. What's the length of this board?

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jondrums said..
Hull speed for a 7ft board is 4knots, which might be just enough to get out of the water on a big foil. If not, we need a planing hull. What's the length of this board?

In my opinion its not the board speed that will get you flying-mode but the pumping motion. Board is 6'2. Already have new blank glued up for revised version

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danish said..

jondrums said..
Hull speed for a 7ft board is 4knots, which might be just enough to get out of the water on a big foil. If not, we need a planing hull. What's the length of this board?

In my opinion its not the board speed that will get you flying-mode but the pumping motion. Board is 6'2. Already have new blank glued up for revised version

In my non expert opinion it's a combination ie board speed, pumping producing lift which includes board design, foil design and the motor's skill/fitness.

A little board speed (a not yet planing speed, very low) then pumping, is all anyone should need.

A little board speed (a not yet planing speed, very low) then pumping, is all anyone should need. Displacement hulls move along easier, at these very low non planing speeds.

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DWF said..
A little board speed (a not yet planing speed, very low) then pumping, is all anyone should need.

Well, as someone who has spent quite some time trying to get my SUP up and foiling on flatwater, I would challenge that statement.

Danish, have you tried that design with a below 6' design? I used one of DWF's 5'1" wing boards and I was able pump up onto foil with just a swell bump. I've found the smaller the board, quicker to foil and easier to pump. With the longer boards I've had in the past, I needed a more linear take off but now I just pump up onto foil with late drops.

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flkiter said..
Danish, have you tried that design with a below 6' design? I used one of DWF's 5'1" wing boards and I was able pump up onto foil with just a swell bump. I've found the smaller the board, quicker to foil and easier to pump. With the longer boards I've had in the past, I needed a more linear take off but now I just pump up onto foil with late drops.

Interesting find!

Haven't. But consider chopping the tail off, making it 5'6. Put the boxes pretty far forward for the same reason:)

What I like about having some waterline on DW boards is that I am able to paddle back to safety if anything happens.

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danish said..
Hi all:)

Been following this forum for a while and thought it was about time to contribute with something.

Beeing an R&D-engineer within windenergy I have access to aaaallll sorts of materials and building supplies Because of this, I regularly spit out frankenboards just to nurse my curiosity.

My latest project was to see if I could build a board with insane early release for light dw days and/or minimal waves. Also wanted to see what tradeoffs it would bring.

Concept:
1. super round bottom - will cause gradually release instead of more flat bottomed boards that are either flying or definitely not flying.
2. large volume and even volume distribution - for bobbing the board onto fly-mode without water wrapping onto to of deck
3. high pintail like on dugout SUPs. Again- easier to perform the pumping motion that will get the board flying..

Does i work? Indeed. Fell on my ass on first wave as the board popped into the air. The transition between being in the water and out of the water is so damn smooth.

Tradeoffs - BALANCE. Only tried the board once, and in the end of session I got (more) used to the rolling and missing edges. Its 27"something wide, but feels way more narrow:D

Totally love that you are doing this! Please keep us posted on new design ideas and what you find ;-)

So, had it out on a dw run. Around 20 knots on local fjord which can get Hood River-ish when it comes to bump quality. Had the Axis 1020 on all the way forward. Could get flying nearly right away, way before the wind-line.

First thing I recognised was that the non-step-tail wasnt any problem when flying low. Barely recognized it when it would be in contact with watersurface.
When crossing the bump in front of me I tried to do light touchdowns on its belly. Water totally split and I didnt feel any change in speed. Reminded me of riding an full suspension mtb compared to hardtail. So, rounded belly and extreme V tail gave plenty of room for errors.

Had one episode where the sharp-ridged nose caught an side chop. It reacted, but not to any problematic degree.

Another big difference I felt was board thickness and rigidety. Felt like my mast was 10cm longer which I had to get used to..
Added an dual high dense stringer from foil mount and 2ft forward. This, together with the tall sides and no flat areas (+ loads of carbon and sandwich foam) made it feel super rigid/light/responsive.

It is far from an ideal board, but I can def take some features from this animal on to my next attempt.

Danish,
I think you're on the right track of thinking for future board design with what's going to come from the foil companies. A board easy to get on foil and pump will allow people to go enjoy an activity with or without waves. Plus for those of us in below marginal conditions, it'll open up the sport more.

I have a feeling you could do the same general concept in a little bit thinner/wider profile and not be so high off the water and improve stability at the same time. I guess it won't paddle as fast or release quite as well.Do you think you need a sharp ridge in the nose? - I'm thinking rounding that off will still come out of the water just fine. The sharp parts in the back probably shouldn't be rounded off, but I don't think rounding the nose-keel would not have a negative effect on release. What do you think about that?

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jondrums said..
I have a feeling you could do the same general concept in a little bit thinner/wider profile and not be so high off the water and improve stability at the same time. I guess it won't paddle as fast or release quite as well.Do you think you need a sharp ridge in the nose? - I'm thinking rounding that off will still come out of the water just fine. The sharp parts in the back probably shouldn't be rounded off, but I don't think rounding the nose-keel would not have a negative effect on release. What do you think about that?

The sharp ridge in nose could easily be rounded off and still split/release water! Hard to see from pictures, but I added some spray concaves under the rail also. Inspired by this picture:


Even though its suttle, the effect is pretty remarkable. Spray just shoots out when touchibg down.

Another wingding session in the books btw. Not sure if this concept is great for that. Feels really hard to get up early. Propably because my pump technique sucks with the wingding in hand also feels under rockered somehow

Hey Danish - every once in a while I think about this thread and check back to see if I missed an update. Any thoughts after more time on the board? We need more experimentation and innovation like you're doing here and to the extent we can, open discussion pushes better solutions

I am starting a wing board. Thinking about bottom shape for easy release. Most of the cup boats have a bustle. The ones that didn't have added it on their new boat. They say the release is smoother and earlier. The flat bottom was sticky apparently.

Love this!
Been thinking about this design for pure paddle downwinding where all you need is a quick release to "jump" the board up off a bit off chop.
also thought the tracking might be the only issue as touch downs are common. Maybe stability while paddling to start?
anyone know how these boards go? www.instagram.com/p/B9cbFmEH6Qy/?igshid=11t9mq6q7l2of

Bumps, Kalama is doing a vee through the front now (I hear.) Less extreme than this, I agree about tracking, these boats don't touch down in a turn like we can.

I've been toying with the idea above (and from other shapers) of wide, thinner rails beveled or scooped with a rounded or vee'd center platform from nose to just before the boxes. But I'll probably just shape flat because it's easy lol. Def no concave, flat or convex in some way seems like it's becoming the way.

Last weekend I joked with buddies that I'm tempted to just cut a 5'x24"x4" block of eps square. Put a 45? angle on the all 4 sides, install boxes and glass it just to be a jerk and counter all this detailed thought. lol. I'll bet it'd ride 80% as well as anything.

I have been searching for this thread for a while after see it a while back...wondering how the board progressed. Would like to see a clip of the board pump up to foil on almost no swell.

Have used the original board in this post a bunch! 99% of the sessions has been downwinders. I start loving the strapless feel from prone-foiling so removed the front strap on the original board which took some of the magic away. Getting up on foil with and without front-strap is two different techniques IMO.
Board is too tippy and bounces a little too unpredictable without strap- even after several sessions. Once up it still slices through touchdowns effortless without loosing speed (thats how it feels).
I made a new prone-board which has some of the elements I want to try on my new DW-vessel. Wider area under back foot, hard edge step-rails in last 1/3 of the board, belly/vee in front and more front (+rear) rocker. Aim is to go for something like 5'2x24x4

The concept behind the new design with all the edges is to lead water away from the board as soon as possible without making it self-steering in touchdowns.

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surfcowboy..
I'll bet it'd ride 80% as well as anything.

Keep the nose shape and volume..then 96%
Once u have wind based power source the subtle refinements are v.low % benefit... 4 complexity
Cheers
AP

Aqua Plow, Ha! You've inspired me.

Might have to label it Kirkland or Equate (AMERICAN product joke there.)