I'm curious to see how many people have converted to the wing and are suddenly not interested in kite surf/foil anymore

The amount of control on the wing makes it so much more enjoyable, especially in gusty/shifty winter winds. I can now wing in conditions I would never kite.

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Alysum said..
I'm curious to see how many people have converted to the wing and are suddenly not interested in kite surf/foil anymore

The amount of control on the wing makes it so much more enjoyable, especially in gusty/shifty winter winds. I can now wing in conditions I would never kite.

Sold most of my gear. Just keeping 9m and surfboard for Gloo trip when it is smoking. Saying that I would probably go to the bay to wingding the swells to avoid the crowds

I have not started yet but I am already selling my 12m Eleveight RS V2 to fund the acquisition of my first wing (most likely Duotone Unit 5m). I will probably keep kite foiling when waves are small, but will definitely replace prone foiling on windy days with Winging. Can't wait to go explore these finicky wave spots that are too difficult to kite with no launching spot or irregular winds. Downwinders look also awesome with wings.

Funny how winging draws folks from all over the "surfing spectrum", from SUPers to kiters, windsurfers and foil surfers...Can't think of any water activity that became so popular is such short period of time..and got many people (including me) change their views about it!

Mokuleia, I agree. I've never considered a wind sport but started foiling a couple of months ago and just bought a wing. Longboards and SUP were my main craft til now.

I got into winging with light wind hopes but found it's not that fun when light (say 10-12kt). Doable but limited capabilities. I am still kite foiling in light wind, find it has more speed and power.

But the nice suprise is that wing is really fun at 20 to 30kt. Lately in anything other than surf, I'll be winging in higher wind.

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juandesooka said..
I got into winging with light wind hopes but found it's not that fun when light (say 10-12kt). Doable but limited capabilities.

Really like light wind especially if you have some swells to ride.

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juandesooka said..
But the nice suprise is that wing is really fun at 20 to 30kt.

Agree, but can be hard work getting back on the board.

We are still the rollerbladers of the ocean, even my wife reckons it looks ghey as Hard to describe why it feels so good, sort of like a permanent full bore bottom turn

Still a beginner wingdinger, but experienced kitefoiler.

If the wind is above 20 knots then I can wing up on the foil. I've made a few surface gybes, and some pretty decent attempts at foiling gybes. It's easy with enough wind.

The problem I, and many people, have is that if there's not enough wind then winging doesn't work at all. Even the best of our local crew need close to 20 knots to do anything useful. I read about 10-15 knot winging, but I have never seen it in the flesh. I've watched a few videos and I am keen to work on light wind slogging and pumping. There is always this appeal of "I wanna get out and try this ....".

I suspect there is a technique issue there in terms of properly pumping the foil, not so much the wing or wing power. I've explored that in my foiling wing sessions but it's hard to get a long enough session in to really nail stuff. The wind drops out or the energy levels run out. I would have thought our better wingers would have that sorted but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I've heard people raving about carving the wind swells. I've seen them and chased them on my kite foil. I've had to slow down to almost stationary to stay with them. The wiggling I saw wasn't close to carving wind swells. There are a couple of locations where we do get excellent wind swells but you need at least 30 knots to get any decent size and shape. I have a cunning plan on how to get off the beach and wing into those swells.

So far, if the wind is even slightly unsuitable for winging then I've gone for kitefoiling every time. I have access to good beaches and all the right gear. Kite foiling in 10-40 knots is easy and fun.

I live in walking distance of a beach that could be ok for winging, but is too small for kiting. I have a shorter, lighter board on order and I am exploring the possibilities of walking down for a wing. That could be good.

I have not sold any kites, I still appreciate the difference and times when a foil cannot work or I want to bounce around on a TT.

But I now wing from.10 to 40+ knots. And it is truly magic powering onto a little ripple and simply gliding away.

This is an interesting read and something I had been thinking about a bit lately, where will winging fit in for me?

I have been kitefoiling a few years and I like to ride strapless and surf the little wind swell bumps and occasional waves. I really love to try to depower the kite and surf along but i have found riding waves with a kite and foil is just not the perfect tool for the job. This is where I think wing foiling will excel for me. I am still only a handful of sessions in but I am really excited about the potential of foiling waves and bumps fully de-powered and all the new possibilities wing foiling brings. I can see wing foiling replacing the vast majority of kite foiling I do which during the summer here in perth is my go to local activity.

Where I can see kite foiling staying active for me is when the wind is light as there is often also no waves and kite foiling in lighter winds and smooth waters lets you blast along with awesome speed and power which i don;t think wing foiling will be able to match.

I definitely wont be selling my kites anytime soon as riding with a kite and a surfboard is still one of my favourite ways to attack waves. A kite can get you through, over, around and into solid surf in a way no other wind craft can. Plus winter here in perth means a lot of straight onshore days with closeout surf and way too much seaweed to foil. Sure you can wing ding on the river but there's no waves and the frontal wind on the river is dodgy as.

I also am not particularly excited about the prospect of getting mowed down by solid waves on a wing ding
Compared to a kite your much more of a sitting duck, I have been wondering lately just how effective the chicken jybe/ turn and run method is on a wing ding? On a kite this is a very effective and important move (some might say its my only move ) but on a wing it seems like it would be difficult to get the same sort of high speed straight out of a jybe? (this probably deserves its own thread)

There is hope for light wind winging -- big foil wing, the right size wind wing and great technique.

Here's one of the best (if not the best) showing how it's done.

been kiting for close 20 years and kite foiling since the get go approx 5 yrs and have to admit have not pumped my kites since May almost 3 months due to my winging obsession/addiction I'm not selling my kites yet no way especially being 225lbs as my low wind threshold still holds advantage to kite foiling however my winging low end is fairly close these days,time and a place for both but for now my kites and kite foils are gaining dust sitting,I'm one of those people that put my head down and won't stop until I have it completely wired so guess I'm in for long haul winging all good!

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Youngbreezy said..
This is an interesting read and something I had been thinking about a bit lately, where will winging fit in for me?

I have been kitefoiling a few years and I like to ride strapless and surf the little wind swell bumps and occasional waves. I really love to try to depower the kite and surf along but i have found riding waves with a kite and foil is just not the perfect tool for the job. This is where I think wing foiling will excel for me. I am still only a handful of sessions in but I am really excited about the potential of foiling waves and bumps fully de-powered and all the new possibilities wing foiling brings. I can see wing foiling replacing the vast majority of kite foiling I do which during the summer here in perth is my go to local activity.

Where I can see kite foiling staying active for me is when the wind is light as there is often also no waves and kite foiling in lighter winds and smooth waters lets you blast along with awesome speed and power which i don;t think wing foiling will be able to match.

I definitely wont be selling my kites anytime soon as riding with a kite and a surfboard is still one of my favourite ways to attack waves. A kite can get you through, over, around and into solid surf in a way no other wind craft can. Plus winter here in perth means a lot of straight onshore days with closeout surf and way too much seaweed to foil. Sure you can wing ding on the river but there's no waves and the frontal wind on the river is dodgy as.

I also am not particularly excited about the prospect of getting mowed down by solid waves on a wing ding
Compared to a kite your much more of a sitting duck, I have been wondering lately just how effective the chicken jybe/ turn and run method is on a wing ding? On a kite this is a very effective and important move (some might say its my only move ) but on a wing it seems like it would be difficult to get the same sort of high speed straight out of a jybe? (this probably deserves its own thread)

Youngbreezy I think you make a lot of sense. I'm no kiter but have been with them in the surf & can see a kite being easier to recover in messy surf. Plus a kite surfboard being easier & quicker to grab & mount.
Plus I recently had a conversation with a foil kiter who was stoked on finding a kite he could virtually totally depower whilst on foil.
I watched him do a few practice laps where he just let go with his hands & let the kite pull him along on the foil. I know this isn't depowering but wondering if a basic kite can do this?
I forgot the name of the kite but the big thing was, is that you don't need to pump it up with air. It flys just like a kite. But if you dump the kite on the water then that's it. No recovery. But maybe there is a way. I'm no kite expert.
Maybe something you kiters might be interested in to depower.

I windsurfed for 20 yrs, lost my mojo with it as was only going out in 4.7m or less with waves and still not frothing, And saw kitesurfing in '99, sold all my gear and leapt into kitesurfing.
Kited for 20 yrs wakeboard/boots, twin tip and strapless surfboard last 10 yrs, in the end only had 8 and 6m and waited for big wind and waves or I wouldn't bother.
Saw Wingfoiling, dithered for a few months, sold all my kite gear and fully committed to The Wing and am loving it, got the buzz and mojo back and excited every time I drive to the sea again. So much to learn and a great feeling on the foul. If it keeps me going for another 20yrs I will be delighted. Mike

I was an absolute kitesurf frother (strapless surfboard type) for about 11 years, started kite-foiling for about 6 months & then on to prone foiling.
I have now sold all my kite gear (about a year ago) & don't think I'll ever pick one up again... so addicted to prone foiling now.

It's great to see other's having a similar experience with the winging.

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toppleover said..
I was an absolute kitesurf frother (strapless surfboard type) for about 11 years, started kite-foiling for about 6 months & then on to prone foiling.
I have now sold all my kite gear (about a year ago) & don't think I'll ever pick one up again... so addicted to prone foiling now.

It's great to see other's having a similar experience with the winging.

Likewise but kept the kite gear...missed some really good kite surfing sessions last winter when it was pumping...as I was inside chipping into reforms in 20kt on the prone foil. Lol, my kite friends think I'm a kook.

With your background, strongly suggest you get wing. The first time I winged into a wave, then grabbed the front strap and let the wing luff, and then gave a couple pumps... Was a holy crap moment. It felt exactly like surf foiling once up and going. In effect it's like your private jet ski tow in.

Though the challenge remains, getting up on my prone surf well. Right now I am on my sup foil...the sinker isn't easy

I've only recently started winging but I won't be selling anything as I see this new sport adding new avenues with minimal overlap.

Already for light air (8 -14) I can see the big wings are like big windsurfing sails they are heavy and cumbersome, not for me. I will continue to kite foil in those conditions where I can go twice as fast on a 1m board which weighs 2Kg and experience near zero swing weight.

15 -30 Knots is the interesting area with so many options now and perhaps more multi discipline days. This is how I see my priority list going.

Onshore Med- Big waves 20 -45 knots - Kite with Surfboard - these days will never get old.
Med -Big waves 12- 20knots - Kite Foiling or winging if I can access and exit the water with a deep entry point
Small waves 15 - 30 knots- Winging for sure including long downwind runs in the wind swell.
Offshore conditions - Winging - this is a new avenue to be explored so many spots that are now doable.
Cross offshore waves - 20-35knots , kite and windsurfing - don't want to waste these rare world class days here for a foil.

So to me its just adds more option not a total replacement of anything.

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Seajuice said..
....
Plus I recently had a conversation with a foil kiter who was stoked on finding a kite he could virtually totally depower whilst on foil.
I watched him do a few practice laps where he just let go with his hands & let the kite pull him along on the foil. I know this isn't depowering but wondering if a basic kite can do this?
....

That's the Flysurfer Peak 4 single skin foil kite. It's got quite a few fans. Gin kites has a similar kite that is relaunchable.

You can get a fair amount of drift out of a normal surf kite, but it's not the same. Kite foils move so fast that you easily outrun a breaking bit of chop. Still, giant carving slashing turns and down the line blasts on a foil with a kite are pretty fun.

I don't see that chasing the power of the wave without the wing as an end in itself. You're making waves and swell and perfect directions a requirement. If that was what I was after I would be stuck with driving a couple of hours to the surf or waiting 'til the bay gets 30 knot wind swells. There goes hundreds of gorgeous sessions in every other kind of condition.

For me winging offers a whole bunch of niches of which wave riding is just one. The bottom line is that a wing makes a surfing foilboard useful and frees you of the need of surf and everything that entails.

Unsuitable beaches and unsuitable wind directions can become usable with a wing.

The pleasant surprise is my addictive personality wants to keep banging away at winging and working out the technique issues to get good at it. It will come. Some kite foiling things seemed impossible but are now easy.

The main negative of winging is that the wings really don't generate much power and the boards are kind of bulky. We need more wind than a kite and dealing with the gear is a bit of an issue. We've been dragged back into the negative world of windsurfing in that respect.

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KB7 said..
I've only recently started winging but I won't be selling anything as I see this new sport adding new avenues with minimal overlap.

Already for light air (8 -14) I can see the big wings are like big windsurfing sails they are heavy and cumbersome, not for me. I will continue to kite foil in those conditions where I can go twice as fast on a 1m board which weighs 2Kg and experience near zero swing weight.

15 -30 Knots is the interesting area with so many options now and perhaps more multi discipline days. This is how I see my priority list going.

Onshore Med- Big waves 20 -45 knots - Kite with Surfboard - these days will never get old.
Med -Big waves 12- 20knots - Kite Foiling or winging if I can access and exit the water with a deep entry point
Small waves 15 - 30 knots- Winging for sure including long downwind runs in the wind swell.
Offshore conditions - Winging - this is a new avenue to be explored so many spots that are now doable.
Cross offshore waves - 20-35knots , kite and windsurfing - don't want to waste these rare world class days here for a foil.

So to me its just adds more option not a total replacement of anything.

Perfect! Pretty much spot on for my game plan too. One factor still to work out: for winging, especially on the lighter side of full power, I end up using biggest foil I have (Maliko 200). Easy to get up, but comes with the negative of being over-foiled when dropping into larger wind swells or waves. I don't use that wing for surf/sup foiling in anything bigger than waist high for that reason ... so with winging I've had a few situations now where I get into those dream conditions I am after, but am challenged to make it work. Needs more practice, etc, just one of those unexpected things.

Gorgo: more gear for sure, though if you're sup foiling already, it's a pretty easy transition...a lot less set up time than kiting, getting a wind session on my lunch break is now a realistic possibility. But on the return to windsurf aspect, I have now done 2 sessions experimenting with a harness....I really like it. More direct transfer of wind power through the board feels great. Easier on the arms on long reaches, especially with big wing (actually less an arm thing, seems to be sore on lats on back arm). And can point a tighter upwind angle. So far, positive results.

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juandesooka said..
.....

Gorgo: more gear for sure, though if you're sup foiling already, it's a pretty easy transition...a lot less set up time than kiting, ....

I think the time thing is kind of neutral at best. My kites stay where I put them and finish the session dry. I've mastered the T-knot method of line organising so I only have to wind out the lines and launch. It's effortless.

My kite foiling gear fit into a bunch of little bags and the whole thing fits in the boot of my car. I do a full assemble every session and the Tuttle mounts are easy and quick with only a few screws. (Same number as a Gofoil but the fit is a bit easier.)

There's virtually no such thing as a walk of shame with a kite foil, and on the rare occasion it happens then it's easy to tuck the board under one arm and fly or tow the kite.

The SUP foil board I have ordered will fit in the car across the back seat and weigh a fair bit less than my current crossover board. Hopefully that will make the logistical issues simpler.

My local beach is in walking distance but the sandy stretch is surrounded by rocks. It's too narrow and weedy to use for casual kiting.

I'm going to focus on underpowered slogging to make sure I can get back my start point. If that works out then strolling down for a session becomes viable. I want some half decent skills before I start launching and landing over rocks and reefs.

For me prone foiling wins hands down, so little gear and so much freedom.Im in the learning stages of wing ding foiling atm and always love learning something new, looking forward to riding some waves and doing some DW with it and not having to worry about the kite falling out of the sky.
Having said that in just about every other way wing dinging is lower performance and harder work than kite foiling, but I can see the benefits being worth the disadvantages , otherwise why would you bother.

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kobo said..
For me prone foiling wins hands down, so little gear and so much freedom.Im in the learning stages of wing ding foiling atm and always love learning something new, looking forward to riding some waves and doing some DW with it and not having to worry about the kite falling out of the sky.
Having said that in just about every other way wing dinging is lower performance and harder work than kite foiling, but I can see the benefits being worth the disadvantages , otherwise why would you bother.

The Ding is indeed harder work but it's a very good full body workout which is very satisfying. Kite foiling has become too much mowing the lawn and you have to manage the kite on a swell. The ding gets you out in conditions and spots you wouldn't normally kite

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kobo said..
For me prone foiling wins hands down, so
Having said that in just about every other way wing dinging is lower performance and harder work than kite foiling, but I can see the benefits being worth the disadvantages , otherwise why would you bother.

Prone foiling is the #1 for me right now too. But we don't have much surf in summer ...
So wind sports.

Nice thing about surf foil vs supmfoulnis wind isn't a major factor. Can surf foil in 15kt but not sup foil....which has cut out much if 12m kite surfing.

Re work..agreed especially if under powered...frankly not much fun if not enough wind. but once lit up, perfectly powered, then not at all....hold wing with fingertips. Just like kiting. So I've become a bit snobby....don't even bother until enough wind for the performance range to start.

Have you have the experience yet of winging into a swell or wave, then let it go with your backhand and just holding the top of the wing and letting it luff? If not, then you're in for a treat soon. Once you transition from the wind stance into your normal surf stance, and weight your feet accordingly, it feels exactly the same as surf foiling....so stoking. Like a zombie hungering for brains, I want more .

90% wing foil (>12kts), 10% kite foil (7-14 kts). All flat water for me so far, and all strapless (bad knees). Advantage of wing foil for me; way easier to learn new moves, even if they are pretty wimpy looking compared kitefoil moves, or riding anything in sizable surf.
Tack both sides, 360's and some behind the back tacks so far. It might look boring on flat water but when you link em all together in quick succession it's pretty fun (....for this ole guy). Riding more than 40 meters in one direction on anything bores the crap out of me

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juandesooka said..

kobo said..
For me prone foiling wins hands down, so
Having said that in just about every other way wing dinging is lower performance and harder work than kite foiling, but I can see the benefits being worth the disadvantages , otherwise why would you bother.

Prone foiling is the #1 for me right now too. But we don't have much surf in summer ...
So wind sports.

Nice thing about surf foil vs supmfoulnis wind isn't a major factor. Can surf foil in 15kt but not sup foil....which has cut out much if 12m kite surfing.

Re work..agreed especially if under powered...frankly not much fun if not enough wind. but once lit up, perfectly powered, then not at all....hold wing with fingertips. Just like kiting. So I've become a bit snobby....don't even bother until enough wind for the performance range to start.

Have you have the experience yet of winging into a swell or wave, then let it go with your backhand and just holding the top of the wing and letting it luff? If not, then you're in for a treat soon. Once you transition from the wind stance into your normal surf stance, and weight your feet accordingly, it feels exactly the same as surf foiling....so stoking. Like a zombie hungering for brains, I want more .

No wave riding yet, but can't wait as that is the goal.Really keen for some DW, hope to eventually end up doing that with just a paddle ,but that might be too optimistic , but hey I thought I'd be happy just riding prone ,without pumping back out like the hot shots, but since getting on the Armstrong gear I have been able to do it too ! so maybe DW with a paddle might be possible for an old man.( any out there chime in give me some hope ). Thanks for the tips, want to try and get competent as possible on the flat ( boring as bat**** ) water, so when I do hit the waves I don't trash the wing.

I find the flat water boring too, but I consider it training. When the waves come back, I want this dialed in. 20kt plus there is usually some wind swells to give a playing surface, so my workout regime...power into swell heelside (left), as I drop in move hand to top of wing and bottom turn right, frontside, ride and pump down the line until power runs out, grab handles again, re engage kite toeside, down the line again frontside, then turn left and down the line left backside....doing loops over and over in the swell train, sometimes 10 or more transitions without falling....then back upwind to do it again. And the few small surf days so far....the muscle memory transfers! Man o man...stoked.