Generally, not having much success with pumping back out. One of my mates suggested I could practice my pumping by winging more. Anyways today winging I noticed that I had much more success pumping if I stepped backfoot back and widened my stance. Then I started wondering if my prone stance is too narrow and that might explain why I struggle to pump?

Do most people find that a wider stance helps pumping with prone foil?

This is the best footage I have of my stance www.instagram.com/p/CZqKfG3FXXD/

Nope opposite. I bring my back foot forward when pumping and even my front sometimes. Narrow stance better I think - better angle transfer of power down through the mast. Stops the over porpoise type pump.

From a biomechanical point of view it makes sense to me to have a pumping stance closer to shoulder width. At least two benefits come out of this: you can feel the sweet spot of the foil more easily and you can deliver power/input down into the foil easier with both feet simultaneously. The shorter amplitude, flatter pitch pumps that HA riders tend to perform are done with a narrower stance. You don't jump rope or explode off the ground to get a vertical jump with a wider stance. When it comes time to turn then the feet can move apart again. My own pumping has improved the more I focus on bringing the front foot back and the back foot a little further forward, especially on HA foils.

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Windoc said..
From a biomechanical point of view it makes sense to me to have a pumping stance closer to shoulder width. At least two benefits come out of this: you can feel the sweet spot of the foil more easily and you can deliver power/input down into the foil easier with both feet simultaneously. The shorter amplitude, flatter pitch pumps that HA riders tend to perform are done with a narrower stance. You don't jump rope or explode off the ground to get a vertical jump with a wider stance. When it comes time to turn then the feet can move apart again. My own pumping has improved the more I focus on bringing the front foot back and the back foot a little further forward, especially on HA foils.

agree on the vertical jump analogy but arent we doing more reciprocal front to back foot pressure to create a change in pitch on the foil versus a squat-jump like movement? if so wider stance might make biomecanical sense..

podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-progression-project/id1206097336?i=1000538490486
Dont worry about your stance (yet), practice and get dialled in with more speed, then pop off the back of the wave with good speed and height on the mast, see how far you can glide without even pumping. Need this skill before you worry about thinking about pump / pump stance. TPP talk about this from about 26 mins.

On stance, the best way I find to get best foot position is to do a few small 'check' pumps while still on the face of the wave. When you have feet position right you will feel the board squirt forward with speed and you will neither pitch nor roll too much.

Try and keep in the top 1/3 of the wave by taking a high line. As soon as you come out in front of the wave you will lose speed.

It's all about speed. :) Good luck ??

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thedoor said..

Windoc said..
From a biomechanical point of view it makes sense to me to have a pumping stance closer to shoulder width. At least two benefits come out of this: you can feel the sweet spot of the foil more easily and you can deliver power/input down into the foil easier with both feet simultaneously. The shorter amplitude, flatter pitch pumps that HA riders tend to perform are done with a narrower stance. You don't jump rope or explode off the ground to get a vertical jump with a wider stance. When it comes time to turn then the feet can move apart again. My own pumping has improved the more I focus on bringing the front foot back and the back foot a little further forward, especially on HA foils.

agree on the vertical jump analogy but arent we doing more reciprocal front to back foot pressure to create a change in pitch on the foil versus a squat-jump like movement? if so wider stance might make biomecanical sense..

Does depend on what type of front foil you are using. Front and back foot reciprocal pressure can be useful to get the foil to the right mast height, especially when trying to recover height - but once up there, the squat type movement just lets the natural pitch of the front foil will do the work anyway.

The higher the aspect you go - suddenly changing the pitch will stall you out. Keeping the boards nose no higher than horizontal is the key. Remember the front foil already has its own pitch built in.

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eppo said..

thedoor said..

Windoc said..
From a biomechanical point of view it makes sense to me to have a pumping stance closer to shoulder width. At least two benefits come out of this: you can feel the sweet spot of the foil more easily and you can deliver power/input down into the foil easier with both feet simultaneously. The shorter amplitude, flatter pitch pumps that HA riders tend to perform are done with a narrower stance. You don't jump rope or explode off the ground to get a vertical jump with a wider stance. When it comes time to turn then the feet can move apart again. My own pumping has improved the more I focus on bringing the front foot back and the back foot a little further forward, especially on HA foils.

agree on the vertical jump analogy but arent we doing more reciprocal front to back foot pressure to create a change in pitch on the foil versus a squat-jump like movement? if so wider stance might make biomecanical sense..

Does depend on what type of front foil you are using. Front and back foot reciprocal pressure can be useful to get the foil to the right mast height, especially when trying to recover height - but once up there, the squat type movement just lets the natural pitch of the front foil will do the work anyway.

The higher the aspect you go - suddenly changing the pitch will stall you out. Keeping the boards nose no higher than horizontal is the key. Remember the front foil already has its own pitch built in.

Sounds good. I was just watching someone on insta

www.instagram.com/p/CjoH42QNhzF/

And I could see the squat motion that windoc was describing. Guess I am over thinking it

@Ju-foil good points about speed and just trying to glide

Here are a few of my videos , might help to watch . 2 on Insta & 1 YouTube

www.instagram.com/reel/Cf1EDtKljmp/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=https://www.instagram.com/reel/CX-4DS2guZS/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

www.instagram.com/reel/CX-4DS2guZS/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Just one piece of advise , if you want to pump back out get off the wave early at speed , don't wait until you are decelerating. Best case is just after you have taken off and accelerating roll off and pump to the one behind , repeat then go for 2 out wide then 3 ect. This will teach you pump longer distances.

Like Piros said. Pumping success is due to maintaining forward speed.
I have never really bothered pumping back out on my SUP foil. Paddle is more relaxing. But I can understand it for a prone foiler.
Sometimes it amazes me on how fast I can go to pump to another swell in front when going forward. And how high I can stay on foil going so slow after the end of my wave.
Maybe some day they will invent a flexi tail or fuse to imitate a flipper or dolphin tail. Ooops? did I touch on the next design?

We just had the soft era , now everyone wants to get stiff, but you want to go soft again ?

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Seajuice said..

Maybe some day they will invent a flexi tail or fuse to imitate a flipper or dolphin tail. Ooops? did I touch on the next design?

So, Seajuice is onto something that I also invented but was too lazy to build.
In the future I imagine that both the front foil and back foil flap to a certain degree. Mainly the back. What could go wrong with a little movable tail wing with spring and what not??

Go Seajuice!-red

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redtx said..

Seajuice said..

Maybe some day they will invent a flexi tail or fuse to imitate a flipper or dolphin tail. Ooops? did I touch on the next design?

So, Seajuice is onto something that I also invented but was too lazy to build.
In the future I imagine that both the front foil and back foil flap to a certain degree. Mainly the back. What could go wrong with a little movable tail wing with spring and what not??

Go Seajuice!-red

If you want a tail like that try the Armstrong V200 tail

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Piros said..
Here are a few of my videos , might help to watch . 2 on Insta & 1 YouTube

www.instagram.com/reel/Cf1EDtKljmp/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=https://www.instagram.com/reel/CX-4DS2guZS/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

www.instagram.com/reel/CX-4DS2guZS/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Wow. You make it look easy? Did you train pumping with pump foil or wing or just prone

Point about speed and getting off earlyish noted. Thanks

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Seajuice said..
Maybe some day they will invent a flexi tail or fuse to imitate a flipper or dolphin tail. Ooops? did I touch on the next design?

Plus, if you go look up the lift 170 fish surf wing you'll see that design element too. Not sure why they stopped making it. It was one of their early foils.

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thedoor said..

Piros said..
Here are a few of my videos , might help to watch . 2 on Insta & 1 YouTube

www.instagram.com/reel/Cf1EDtKljmp/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=https://www.instagram.com/reel/CX-4DS2guZS/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

www.instagram.com/reel/CX-4DS2guZS/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Wow. You make it look easy? Did you train pumping with pump foil or wing or just prone

Point about speed and getting off earlyish noted. Thanks

All my pumping is from proning , dock starts is the best skill you can learn to get your pumping going .