So I'm still finding pumping tricky on my 6'0 prone board, which is obviously long for a prone board but it would be short for a sup. For those of you who have achieved enough pumping proficiency to link waves waves together, how short did you need to go to get there? Do I need to get gear or just get better?

You can pump anything , just gets easier when smaller. Plenty of guys doing laps on 5-0' s , 5-6's . For me personally I reckon 4-6 -30 to 35 litres is the optimum prone length . Still paddles well and catches waves and super pumpable.

Re connecting waves the big trick is to pull off early while you are accelerating and not wait until you are losing speed. So much easier to pump with speed.

I ride a prone 4'8". Messaging with @foiltheworld on instagram, he says sub 4'4" for a prone board. I see guys on 5'6" SUP boards getting 2 for 1's in Malibu.

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Piros said..
You can pump anything , just gets easier when smaller. Plenty of guys doing laps on 5-0' s , 5-6's . For me personally I reckon 4-6 -30 to 35 litres is the optimum prone length . Still paddles well and catches waves and super pumpable.

Re connecting waves the big trick is to pull off early while you are accelerating and not wait until you are losing speed. So much easier to pump with speed.

What Piros said.

i ride 4'0" and it's very good for pumping but every once in a while I steal my mate's 4'5" which is thicker and has a bit more nose rocker. I never want to give it back. It pumps well, turns well and I can run down waves I can't on the little one.

weight is important though, I don't like them to be over about 2.8kg

I've got a 5'10 and a 4'7, can pump both, but if I ride the 5'10 for a few days then switch to the 4'7, its like switching to a sports car after driving a 15 passenger van...

This is an interesting topic. And it's not as easy as just the length of the board. Sure a poorly setup shorter board will be easier than a poorly setup longer board, but set your board up correctly and you can literally pump anything.

I can pump and connect on a 7'6" SUP.

I have done connectors of up to 6 or 7 full length waves on a 6'0" prone board with a 1650cm2 foil.

It is all about mount position, board balance, stance and technique. I really like how KD-Maui describes the balance point, and I find it works well on prone and SUP. if you put your board upside down (foil up) and put your finger at the max thickness of your front wing (this is very roughly the equational up lifting position), you should be able to pick the board up and have it balance on your finger(s). It is only roughly a guide, but it will help. If you try this and your boards nose stays on the ground, then you have a super nose weighted setup. This is good for powerful surf, riding fast and hard turning but not ideal for pumping. If your boards nose lifts first, then your setup is positively balanced and likely difficult to manage the lift and hard to control at speed, but it will seem like it just wants to pump the second you even think about lifting your front foot. If your board somewhat lifts horizontally, then in my opinion you have a well balanced board that will surf, pump, turn and behave really well in most conditions. Obviously you should tune for conditions out side of the norm/comfort zone.

Personally now I enjoy riding 5' for prone, but I am thinking of actually going up to 5'4" for more paddle power and better control at speed and when smacking the whitewater. I went as small as 4'4" and whilst it was cool up on the foil, preferred the 4'8" and definitely the 5'0" more. I look back now and think I foiled harder and faster when I was riding 5'6", hence my thoughts to go longer.

My opinion is don't get too caught up on length. Be honest with your paddle power. Volume is nice, but so is length.

Enjoy,

Ride safe,

JB

Great info, thanks guys! Any thoughts on if rider height impacts things at all?

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JB said..
This is an interesting topic. And it's not as easy as just the length of the board. Sure a poorly setup shorter board will be easier than a poorly setup longer board, but set your board up correctly and you can literally pump anything.

I can pump and connect on a 7'6" SUP.

I have done connectors of up to 6 or 7 full length waves on a 6'0" prone board with a 1650cm2 foil.

It is all about mount position, board balance, stance and technique. I really like how KD-Maui describes the balance point, and I find it works well on prone and SUP. if you put your board upside down (foil up) and put your finger at the max thickness of your front wing (this is very roughly the equational up lifting position), you should be able to pick the board up and have it balance on your finger(s). It is only roughly a guide, but it will help. If you try this and your boards nose stays on the ground, then you have a super nose weighted setup. This is good for powerful surf, riding fast and hard turning but not ideal for pumping. If your boards nose lifts first, then your setup is positively balanced and likely difficult to manage the lift and hard to control at speed, but it will seem like it just wants to pump the second you even think about lifting your front foot. If your board somewhat lifts horizontally, then in my opinion you have a well balanced board that will surf, pump, turn and behave really well in most conditions. Obviously you should tune for conditions out side of the norm/comfort zone.

Personally now I enjoy riding 5' for prone, but I am thinking of actually going up to 5'4" for more paddle power and better control at speed and when smacking the whitewater. I went as small as 4'4" and whilst it was cool up on the foil, preferred the 4'8" and definitely the 5'0" more. I look back now and think I foiled harder and faster when I was riding 5'6", hence my thoughts to go longer.

My opinion is don't get too caught up on length. Be honest with your paddle power. Volume is nice, but so is length.

Enjoy,

Ride safe,

JB

I agree with JB,I have a 4'8 and 5'10 prone, and sure the 4'8 is better to pump,but I've gone back to the 5'10 more often because I can catch smaller and larger waves much more easily. For larger waves I can get in earlier and avoid the steeper drop, or if I do take off late the extra length and nose lift helps with control, so overall I'm using the 5'10 more and getting more waves.

The shorter the better/easier but it has a lot to do with the foil you use and also your technique.

The number one mistake is too push down or on your back foot. You never push on your feet for pumping (even if it looks like it sometimes), it is all about unweight and feel the foil working, have a good rythme, coordination and flow.

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JB said..
This is an interesting topic. And it's not as easy as just the length of the board. Sure a poorly setup shorter board will be easier than a poorly setup longer board, but set your board up correctly and you can literally pump anything.

I can pump and connect on a 7'6" SUP.

I have done connectors of up to 6 or 7 full length waves on a 6'0" prone board with a 1650cm2 foil.

It is all about mount position, board balance, stance and technique. I really like how KD-Maui describes the balance point, and I find it works well on prone and SUP. if you put your board upside down (foil up) and put your finger at the max thickness of your front wing (this is very roughly the equational up lifting position), you should be able to pick the board up and have it balance on your finger(s). It is only roughly a guide, but it will help. If you try this and your boards nose stays on the ground, then you have a super nose weighted setup. This is good for powerful surf, riding fast and hard turning but not ideal for pumping. If your boards nose lifts first, then your setup is positively balanced and likely difficult to manage the lift and hard to control at speed, but it will seem like it just wants to pump the second you even think about lifting your front foot. If your board somewhat lifts horizontally, then in my opinion you have a well balanced board that will surf, pump, turn and behave really well in most conditions. Obviously you should tune for conditions out side of the norm/comfort zone.

Personally now I enjoy riding 5' for prone, but I am thinking of actually going up to 5'4" for more paddle power and better control at speed and when smacking the whitewater. I went as small as 4'4" and whilst it was cool up on the foil, preferred the 4'8" and definitely the 5'0" more. I look back now and think I foiled harder and faster when I was riding 5'6", hence my thoughts to go longer.

My opinion is don't get too caught up on length. Be honest with your paddle power. Volume is nice, but so is length.

Enjoy,

Ride safe,

JB

I love this description. Is it even possible to have a non-nose-heavy SUPfoil setup? The mounting postiion would need to be so far forward...

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JB said..
I can pump and connect on a 7'6" SUP.

Can you take a photo of you balancing that one as you suggest? Intrigued

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gbrungra said..
I love this description. Is it even possible to have a non-nose-heavy SUPfoil setup? The mounting postiion would need to be so far forward...

Not necessarily. Just the mount in the "natural" position to SUP-paddle already in the flying position will drastically reduce the nose leverage and balance better the board.

Plus, use a shape with a very narrow, ultra light nose, where you want the length just for water piercing hydrodynamics, not wide to add stability.

Look at all the early SUP foil videos of kaehi, for instance:



or this pic I say yesterday on a guy on a 7'8" Gong Alley 105 liters with a foilbox and straps added for hybrid use: foil + SUP. I have a regular one and it weights 5.2kg with pad (without the foil box of course), the narrow nose is thus featherlight, I can see how it could be efficient once on the air. You wont have the pump-to-takeoff action of a whistle tail, but it is easy to imagine creating a pure foil board with a narrow ultralight nose.

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JB said..
put your finger at the max thickness of your front wing (this is very roughly the equational up lifting position), you should be able to pick the board up and have it balance on your finger(s)

Boy, did I get flamed to promote this view when I documented my learning 2 years ago... But it is so logical.

So if we all agree on this explanation: as your legs unweight the foil, it rises up on its own, but only if it is sufficiently nose-light.

Then we should look for boards with shorter nose lengths. And if the volume needs to be placed elsewhere, then it should go in the tail?

At the very least, the foil should go all the way forward on the board tracks (if plate mount)?