Winging and foiling and SUP background. I'm 80kg. 7'6 Sunova Aviator 135l, Axis 300 PNG.

Should be everything I need for success... what are the recommendations for the first time out? Am i better on a lighter day with smaller runs to get the feel for it, do i go all in on a big downwinder and learn by doing/suffering, or should i just do a local paddle out and try local waves? Mostly I wing small boards+foils so not sure what the best start point is for this setup which looks monster to me.

II ride a pretty small surf SUP so think i'm comfortable with the SUP stuff, and am mostly DW wingfoiling in surf, so I wasn't going to go completely flat water. I'll have a few goes with the board with the wing as well today and tomorrow.

For those who known Perth, I was thinking of going out on tuesday with a moderate breeze and doing a mini run from Mettams to Watermans with the theory that the swell would be more manageable than Swanbourne to Trigg but enough to get going. Is that sound?

Appreciate any ideas and advice you wish you had when learning!

Sup paddling is great for your health. Builds muscles you didn't know you had. It's also terrible for your mental health. ??

Sounds like you already sup surf so I assume you are talking about sup downwinders. If so I would start with a short runs before committing to long ones. Falling over and over isn't a very good confidence builder. It can also attract things in the water??The struggle can be real especially if paddling is new. Reading the bumps takes time and many give up because of the feeling they will never get it. However, if you are persistent or just plain stubborn enough you will eventually get it. It is very rewarding for those who want it bad enough to suffer a bit. FWIW I was almost 60yrs. when I began my journey...No Regrets!

Thanks, I went out yesterday with the board and my normal foil and winging setup to get a feel for the board, then put the dw foil on in a very sheltered location (~10kt and tiny runners). I can get up and paddle ok, but couldn't get anything close to the board coming off the water.

Initial issues, with giant foil I tend to go where the swell goes, regardless of where I'm paddling, and I don't know exactly where the sweet spot is with this setup.

going to try with the dw foil and board on the wing and practice the pump up with a little bit of wing support to find the right foot location and know where my feet go.

definitely both a physical and head game- I think the hard bit is going to be the opportunity cost of giving up a kite or wing or surf session to exhaust myself not catching waves

any drills, techniques or general thoughts are appreciated!

I assume that you're running the Axis 1300 PNG. I started on that foil and honestly it's a big of a pig. May have easy lift but the drag is seriously high and it's on tracks, like you complained of.

Your board is also very short and I'm guessing wide (22.5in or something?). Boards at least 8ft, but preferably 8.6ft, and no more than 20in wide are a huge amount easier than something short and wide like yours.

When learning to DW, it's easier to break down each component of the sport and practice each individually - (1) paddling on the board, (2) catching waves/bumps and liftoff, and (3) foiling/pumping while up on foil.

Practice the first on flat water in a river or something first. You don't need to be able to actually paddle up, but that practice is valuable.

Also if possible where you live, I'd practice in some small waves and only try downwind when you can already catch a wave and pump back out to the peak. Small waves are the easiest way to learn the liftoff part of foiling, and also then you get practice on actually foiling and pumping.

For the final part, you can get time on foil on the wing, behind a boat or just in the small waves.

If you have each of those components, then just get out in the bumps and suffer like the rest of us haha. I learned how to foil in the bumps and it was an inefficient way to learn.

Also there's a million youtube videos, the downwind foiling facebook page and the Coach Casey club for more info.

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probabli said..
I assume that you're running the Axis 1300 PNG. I started on that foil and honestly it's a big of a pig. May have easy lift but the drag is seriously high and it's on tracks, like you complained of.

Your board is also very short and I'm guessing wide (22.5in or something?). Boards at least 8ft, but preferably 8.6ft, and no more than 20in wide are a huge amount easier than something short and wide like yours.

How would one of my Armstrong HA's perform, could I get away with HA1125? Everything i read is blah blah Axis 1300 PNG great for learning but I would be way more comfortable with a higher aspect in my existing setup, just not sure what the cutoff would be for something to start with. Or I'd rather invest in another larger armie foil if it was the right thing.

Board is 23" wide - I would have to make some car modifications for anything larger!

Have been hitting the youtube and so forth but a lot of opinions out there and keen for feedback on my specific setup and what i can work with.

Good advice above. For me, practicing takeoffs in rolling super small waves with my downwind foil and board was valuable. Getting the feeling for the paddle sprint and pump on foil is key.

Another key is learning to link bumps on your exact DW setup. As I was learning to dw, I was surprised that linking is harder than taking off since most people talk about the difficulty of taking off. Winging is a great way to get dialed on the big gear, go out on good bump days and see how far you can link bumps without touching the wing, pretend it's not there and don't give up until you fall or stall out

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CH3MTR4IL5 said..

probabli said..
I assume that you're running the Axis 1300 PNG. I started on that foil and honestly it's a big of a pig. May have easy lift but the drag is seriously high and it's on tracks, like you complained of.

Your board is also very short and I'm guessing wide (22.5in or something?). Boards at least 8ft, but preferably 8.6ft, and no more than 20in wide are a huge amount easier than something short and wide like yours.

How would one of my Armstrong HA's perform, could I get away with HA1125? Everything i read is blah blah Axis 1300 PNG great for learning but I would be way more comfortable with a higher aspect in my existing setup, just not sure what the cutoff would be for something to start with. Or I'd rather invest in another larger armie foil if it was the right thing.

Board is 23" wide - I would have to make some car modifications for anything larger!

Have been hitting the youtube and so forth but a lot of opinions out there and keen for feedback on my specific setup and what i can work with.

The 1300 should be fine if you are in bay bumps. It will be too slow for open ocean. On the other hand, that board will be pretty slow and will struggle to get a fast foil up, so the 1300 might be a good match for it particularly in bay bumps.

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CH3MTR4IL5 said..

probabli said..
I assume that you're running the Axis 1300 PNG. I started on that foil and honestly it's a big of a pig. May have easy lift but the drag is seriously high and it's on tracks, like you complained of.

Your board is also very short and I'm guessing wide (22.5in or something?). Boards at least 8ft, but preferably 8.6ft, and no more than 20in wide are a huge amount easier than something short and wide like yours.

How would one of my Armstrong HA's perform, could I get away with HA1125? Everything i read is blah blah Axis 1300 PNG great for learning but I would be way more comfortable with a higher aspect in my existing setup, just not sure what the cutoff would be for something to start with. Or I'd rather invest in another larger armie foil if it was the right thing.

Board is 23" wide - I would have to make some car modifications for anything larger!

Have been hitting the youtube and so forth but a lot of opinions out there and keen for feedback on my specific setup and what i can work with.

The shorter board will work but it will be a lot more difficult to learn on.

I'm not sure about that foil sorry, but a Code 1300S (span - 1115mm, area - 1300mm2, AR - 9.5) has worked well for me at 100kgs. It was a lot easier to learn on than the Axis 1300 PNG (span - 1300mm, area - 1700mm2) because it was a much more efficient foil and was easier to control, even if the lift wasn't as strong.

Seems your HA1125 is a bit smaller than the Code 1300, but at your weight and being a newer design, it might be doable. If you have spent a lot of time on it on the wing, then I'd go with that option as familiarity with the foil under foot counts for a lot. Also ramping up the tail size can make a huge difference (it's not just marketing, stabs are important).

I'm also quite negative on the Axis 1300 but I'm sure some people will still say it's an easy foil to learn on and with your wider board that low speed lift may be helpful.

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JonahL said..

The 1300 should be fine if you are in bay bumps. It will be too slow for open ocean. On the other hand, that board will be pretty slow and will struggle to get a fast foil up, so the 1300 might be a good match for it particularly in bay bumps.

Thx. I'm short period ocean swell - as per your previous I have a pretty good handle on linking up as I've been focusing on that while downwind winging with the sup in mind, and figure I can improve that fairly easily/more painlessly (wing drop etc), so its the paddle up that is going to be my bugbear!

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probabli said..
The shorter board will work but it will be a lot more difficult to learn on.

I'm not sure about that foil sorry, but a Code 1300S (span - 1115mm, area - 1300mm2, AR - 9.5) has worked well for me at 100kgs. It was a lot easier to learn on than the Axis 1300 PNG (span - 1300mm, area - 1700mm2) because it was a much more efficient foil and was easier to control, even if the lift wasn't as strong.

Seems your HA1125 is a bit smaller than the Code 1300, but at your weight and being a newer design, it might be doable. If you have spent a lot of time on it on the wing, then I'd go with that option as familiarity with the foil under foot counts for a lot. Also ramping up the tail size can make a huge difference (it's not just marketing, stabs are important).

I'm also quite negative on the Axis 1300 but I'm sure some people will still say it's an easy foil to learn on and with your wider board that low speed lift may be helpful.

Those stats are helpful, I could go a bigger Armie HA pretty cheaply - eg 1525 which is 1525cm2 and 1200 span also 9.5. (Also should add that the Axis setup is all aluminium and i shed a bit of weight with the Armstrong gear which may or may not assist).