Will this work, or it's just hype?

ktsurfing.com/boards-2022/ginxu/

Not the worst idea, works for seaplane float designs.

wow, that's interesting. With the ongoing debate on flat square tails vs a bevel tail, that pretty much jumps to settle the argument by removing the tail entirely.

The board profile photos, cutaway looks about 1/3 of thickness. But in action shots, appears to be more like 2/3 thickness...could be optical illusion. Or maybe the proportions vary depending on board size.

The specs are fascinating....a 4.6 board is 20" wide and 4" thick, for 39L. The 5.4 is 27.5" wide and 6,25" thick, 105L, These are beefy boards, even with foam cut out they are on higher side of volumes for size. A while back I experimented with making short fatter prone boards, as I wanted to have less swing weight but I can't paddle a potato chip. They work, my 4.6 with 4.25" thick is probably 40L....but you do feel pretty disconnected from the foil. Some people have tackled this by digging in deep concaves in deck; kinda same here but taking it out of bottom instead.

If you believe the chatter in winging lately, that flat tail and more wetted surface help for with light wind performance, then are these intended to be high wind high performance vehicles? Their marketing focuses on maximizing potential for riding out high speed touch downs....so is this Kai L's jaws foil put into mainstream vs a daily driver? I will be really curious to hear riding reports from mortals in regular conditions.

Finally, style points.....Slingshot foil boards use various hard edge cutaways, highroller photo below ... but they've never really gotten a lot of love as popular mainstream options (from what I've noticed). Personally I am rapidly progressing towards old-fart over-the-hill former-surfer status ... and from that high perch I have to say I find these kind of things gimmicky and a little ugly, vs the clean sweet lines of a classic surfboard. But I am also all about getting all the advantages I can, so if a new design actually works, and is beyond the 5% barely noticable improvement level, then I'd ride a pink polka dot dildo-board if it means making head high drops and multiples all day long.

[PS not wanting to sound negative, I am stoked to see the innovation....KT, if you're listening, feel free to send a couple to our crew on Vancouver Island, we'll handle the testing for middle-aged dudes in 5mm wetsuits with moderate talent but overflowing with froth ]

Almost feels like the "deck" of the board could be built like a twin tip and the "hull" attached separately. Would left you try different volumes very easily.

I love to see inovation. But imho if everything is well connected and stiff I cant see the difference in a 3inch thick board with a 30inch mast vs a 1inch thick board with a 32inch mast. You feet are still the same distance from the foil which in essence is what you are riding. I think people who are riding thinner boards and love them are probabaly feeling the difference in weight and swing weight more than anything.

Honestly, the High Density foam + PVC sandwich Carbon and S-glass construction was what caught my eye. I'm tired of boards that only last a season at most. I just need to decide if I want to go with the 4'6 or be lazy and roll with that nice fat 4'7. I'm just scared to see the price.

There is so much new stuff coming out that i want to try...Aluula,Gofoil GT and RS,Cabrinha fusion,Takuma RS,Reedin, DW boards,Foil Drive.
And now this.

I am going to need a million dollars ,round figure :).

Select to expand quote

exiled said..
Honestly, the High Density foam + PVC sandwich Carbon and S-glass construction was what caught my eye. I'm tired of boards that only last a season at most. I just need to decide if I want to go with the 4'6 or be lazy and roll with that nice fat 4'7. I'm just scared to see the price.

a thread also going in wing section: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Wing-Foiling/Wind-Wings/Kt-boards?page=1#20

2000-2300E equals roughly $1m in Cdn or oz bucks.

construction: I am curious, are you seeing boards breaking? or prone to a lot of dings? what is your experience after a season's use? I find new wing and sup boards fantastically expensive relative to surf or kite boards, but they seem pretty resilient, I haven't really noticed too many failures across brands locally. It's a pretty new industry when you think about it, really these boards have only been in use 2-3 years, vs that classic 20 year old longboard. They seem to be trading hands and in operation, can't recall many getting retired. I have been going DIY route myself, with overbuilt and over-heavy ugly beasts that do the the job. This conversation for me is mainly about which board design ideas I intend to steal next.

Select to expand quote

juandesooka said..

exiled said..
Honestly, the High Density foam + PVC sandwich Carbon and S-glass construction was what caught my eye. I'm tired of boards that only last a season at most. I just need to decide if I want to go with the 4'6 or be lazy and roll with that nice fat 4'7. I'm just scared to see the price.

a thread also going in wing section: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Wing-Foiling/Wind-Wings/Kt-boards?page=1#20

2000-2300E equals roughly $1m in Cdn or oz bucks.

construction: I am curious, are you seeing boards breaking? or prone to a lot of dings? what is your experience after a season's use? I find new wing and sup boards fantastically expensive relative to surf or kite boards, but they seem pretty resilient, I haven't really noticed too many failures across brands locally. It's a pretty new industry when you think about it, really these boards have only been in use 2-3 years, vs that classic 20 year old longboard. They seem to be trading hands and in operation, can't recall many getting retired. I have been going DIY route myself, with overbuilt and over-heavy ugly beasts that do the the job. This conversation for me is mainly about which board design ideas I intend to steal next.

I can't think of the last time I've seen a foilboard buckled, and honestly its been years since I had a true equipment failure. I just keep getting dings by putting my shin through the rail of my board when I fall, or clipping something while loading or unloading from my car. Dings aren't the end of the world, but I don't want to miss days waiting for repairs to get done. More what I am seeing after a year is decks getting soft from repeated impacts and delams starting. I had several SUPs built with that style PVC sandwich construction that were bombproof for over a decade, even without carbon. 10 plus year of my dumb ass and not a single ding repair. That's the kind of foilboard I want to buy. The guys who know how to build windsurfers know what's up construction wise, and of those KT seems to be the one paying the most attention to building foilboards.

Select to expand quote

I know what you mean...I have a starboard sup that will outlive us all. Deck compressions are pretty easily resolved with a layer of divinicell or even a couple extra layers cloth. Rails a little harder to get bomb proof.

Short of that though, the full windsurf style construction may add a lot more weight than people like, maybe overkill if not breaking stuff....windsurfing is so much harder on gear than foiling. That's the razor edge, weight vs strength. And the 3rd leg of that stool is cost! Looks like kt needed this extra strength to avoid breakage...strong, maybe light, and definitely not cheap!

I look forward to seeing one

That construction, solid PVC blank, is what I've been using the last few boards and it's lived up to the hype. Board has lasted a year with no noticeable flex, even with extremely destructive testing. I've managed a few dings but the foam doesn't absorb water so it's fine.

weight is a littler heavier, but on a small prone shape the extra complication of gluing the HD foam in one place and the lighter EPS in others adds almost as much weight as you save with the EPS.

nice part laminating is you can send the vacuum to the MOON! EPS you can over squeeze but solid D-cell you can pull all the vacuum you got for an even tighter laminate

Blank costs $250 more than EPS so that will show in pricing.

PVC blank should be far less labour than sandwich construction. Not that they'll price it that way.

Select to expand quote

TooMuchEpoxy said..
That construction, solid PVC blank, is what I've been using the last few boards and it's lived up to the hype. Board has lasted a year with no noticeable flex, even with extremely destructive testing. I've managed a few dings but the foam doesn't absorb water so it's fine.

weight is a littler heavier, but on a small prone shape the extra complication of gluing the HD foam in one place and the lighter EPS in others adds almost as much weight as you save with the EPS.

nice part laminating is you can send the vacuum to the MOON! EPS you can over squeeze but solid D-cell you can pull all the vacuum you got for an even tighter laminate

Blank costs $250 more than EPS so that will show in pricing.

Select to expand quote

Grantmac said..
PVC blank should be far less labour than sandwich construction. Not that they'll price it that way.

Don't know where you got the idea of a pvc blank.
the average used pvc is 75kg/m3, eps 15kg/m3.
the blank alone of such a 100l board would be 7.5kg compared to 1.5kg.
maybe you're talking about PU blank? Pu is more expensive, denser and doesn't take in water. It's a good alternative for a non-sandwich board considering price, weight and difficulty.
takoon and appletree use pu blanks and do their layups with resin infusion i think.

Patent here patents.justia.com/patent/11027796. Pretty easy to get by.

Select to expand quote

NicoDC said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..
That construction, solid PVC blank, is what I've been using the last few boards and it's lived up to the hype. Board has lasted a year with no noticeable flex, even with extremely destructive testing. I've managed a few dings but the foam doesn't absorb water so it's fine.

weight is a littler heavier, but on a small prone shape the extra complication of gluing the HD foam in one place and the lighter EPS in others adds almost as much weight as you save with the EPS.

nice part laminating is you can send the vacuum to the MOON! EPS you can over squeeze but solid D-cell you can pull all the vacuum you got for an even tighter laminate

Blank costs $250 more than EPS so that will show in pricing.

Grantmac said..
PVC blank should be far less labour than sandwich construction. Not that they'll price it that way.

Don't know where you got the idea of a pvc blank.
the average used pvc is 75kg/m3, eps 15kg/m3.
the blank alone of such a 100l board would be 7.5kg compared to 1.5kg.
maybe you're talking about PU blank? Pu is more expensive, denser and doesn't take in water. It's a good alternative for a non-sandwich board considering price, weight and difficulty.
takoon and appletree use pu blanks and do their layups with resin infusion i think.

No, i use this www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/01-12930.php Divinycell PVC foam. 3lb per cubit foot = 48 KG/M3

For a 30L prone board going from a 1.5 lb to 3lb blanks adds...1.5 lbs.... (30 liter board happens to be almost exactly 1 cubic foot)

From the website "by making the core of the board high density foam, rather than standard foam, they'd create a much stronger base structure"

And nobody is making high performance foil boards from PU foam...PU is Garbage.

Select to expand quote

TooMuchEpoxy said..

NicoDC said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..
That construction, solid PVC blank, is what I've been using the last few boards and it's lived up to the hype. Board has lasted a year with no noticeable flex, even with extremely destructive testing. I've managed a few dings but the foam doesn't absorb water so it's fine.

weight is a littler heavier, but on a small prone shape the extra complication of gluing the HD foam in one place and the lighter EPS in others adds almost as much weight as you save with the EPS.

nice part laminating is you can send the vacuum to the MOON! EPS you can over squeeze but solid D-cell you can pull all the vacuum you got for an even tighter laminate

Blank costs $250 more than EPS so that will show in pricing.

Grantmac said..
PVC blank should be far less labour than sandwich construction. Not that they'll price it that way.

Don't know where you got the idea of a pvc blank.
the average used pvc is 75kg/m3, eps 15kg/m3.
the blank alone of such a 100l board would be 7.5kg compared to 1.5kg.
maybe you're talking about PU blank? Pu is more expensive, denser and doesn't take in water. It's a good alternative for a non-sandwich board considering price, weight and difficulty.
takoon and appletree use pu blanks and do their layups with resin infusion i think.

No, i use this www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/01-12930.php Divinycell PVC foam. 3lb per cubit foot = 48 KG/M3

For a 30L prone board going from a 1.5 lb to 3lb blanks adds...1.5 lbs.... (30 liter board happens to be almost exactly 1 cubic foot)

From the website "by making the core of the board high density foam, rather than standard foam, they'd create a much stronger base structure"

And nobody is making high performance foil boards from PU foam...PU is Garbage.

Thanks! Interesting material. I haven't been able to find d-cell in the EU. Do you have a spec sheet somewhere? Interested in the mechanical properties.
sounds doable for a prone board, but I'm not sure the weight penalty is worth it in bigger sizes.

Select to expand quote

NicoDC said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..

NicoDC said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..
That construction, solid PVC blank, is what I've been using the last few boards and it's lived up to the hype. Board has lasted a year with no noticeable flex, even with extremely destructive testing. I've managed a few dings but the foam doesn't absorb water so it's fine.

weight is a littler heavier, but on a small prone shape the extra complication of gluing the HD foam in one place and the lighter EPS in others adds almost as much weight as you save with the EPS.

nice part laminating is you can send the vacuum to the MOON! EPS you can over squeeze but solid D-cell you can pull all the vacuum you got for an even tighter laminate

Blank costs $250 more than EPS so that will show in pricing.

Grantmac said..
PVC blank should be far less labour than sandwich construction. Not that they'll price it that way.

Don't know where you got the idea of a pvc blank.
the average used pvc is 75kg/m3, eps 15kg/m3.
the blank alone of such a 100l board would be 7.5kg compared to 1.5kg.
maybe you're talking about PU blank? Pu is more expensive, denser and doesn't take in water. It's a good alternative for a non-sandwich board considering price, weight and difficulty.
takoon and appletree use pu blanks and do their layups with resin infusion i think.

No, i use this www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/01-12930.php Divinycell PVC foam. 3lb per cubit foot = 48 KG/M3

For a 30L prone board going from a 1.5 lb to 3lb blanks adds...1.5 lbs.... (30 liter board happens to be almost exactly 1 cubic foot)

From the website "by making the core of the board high density foam, rather than standard foam, they'd create a much stronger base structure"

And nobody is making high performance foil boards from PU foam...PU is Garbage.

Thanks! Interesting material. I haven't been able to find d-cell in the EU. Do you have a spec sheet somewhere? Interested in the mechanical properties.
sounds doable for a prone board, but I'm not sure the weight penalty is worth it in bigger sizes.

In the wind-industry we use IPN foam mostly. Costs more than PVC but consumes way less resin while still having good bonding properties. NMG/Soteco www.nmgeurope.com/products/atlasfoam/ have a big factory in europe so might be possible to get sample from them? That said - foam prices across nearly all types has exploded last year.

will get my shapingbay up and running soon. Should be fun to experiment with a project like this. High dense deck/foil attachment and super lightweight (detachable?) hull/volume-distribution

Costs more than PVC?!? YIKES!

Wow this thread took a turn or two...

The KT board looks unreal for winging and prone. I would think, (someone test one please!) you should be able to use your same length mast with the same touch down distance because when you ride you are slightly nose up and typically touch around the back of the board given two boards of the same relatively narrow outline as the Ginxu. And for the same volume, you would get more paddling clearance. That as you shift your weight back to raise the mast height and you break free from the surface quicker is a pretty strong selling point too. This might be to H/A foils as tail sloping was to low aspect foils? For suping, it might be a little tough though to get the correct balance as the tail would drag. So maybe it's a 2-in-one board!? What was that Juandesooka said about pink polka dotted....

Contruction wise, I have buckled a rediculously under glassed production prone board with an eps core and carbon glass that weighs nothing, and on the other end, my vacuum sandwiched Kalama sup is almost too much of a tank at 16 lbs with full pads and inserts (It's build like a windsurfer for guys like Dave and me (equal weights...!) My favorite construction for prone is the Appletree as its got closed cell foam and heavy weave carbon. Just slighly heavier (and still crazy light and stiff) than the weak eps board at 4'8" but really bomber. Not sure at what volume the heavier foam stops being a bennefit. I wouldn't be suprised if Kt uses a close cell for the rear, and inserts, then glues eps to it for the main body on the larger sizes, but all closed cell for the small ones. I've had boards made of XPS and they all blow up if left in a hot anything, so maybe Appletree's foam is the IPN from Atlas?

Your XPS boards blew up?.
Where do you live,did you leave them in the sun ,car ?.
I am interested because i was thinkng of making an XPS board...did they outgas and delam in places?

Select to expand quote

danish said..

NicoDC said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..

NicoDC said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..
That construction, solid PVC blank, is what I've been using the last few boards and it's lived up to the hype. Board has lasted a year with no noticeable flex, even with extremely destructive testing. I've managed a few dings but the foam doesn't absorb water so it's fine.

weight is a littler heavier, but on a small prone shape the extra complication of gluing the HD foam in one place and the lighter EPS in others adds almost as much weight as you save with the EPS.

nice part laminating is you can send the vacuum to the MOON! EPS you can over squeeze but solid D-cell you can pull all the vacuum you got for an even tighter laminate

Blank costs $250 more than EPS so that will show in pricing.

Grantmac said..
PVC blank should be far less labour than sandwich construction. Not that they'll price it that way.

Don't know where you got the idea of a pvc blank.
the average used pvc is 75kg/m3, eps 15kg/m3.
the blank alone of such a 100l board would be 7.5kg compared to 1.5kg.
maybe you're talking about PU blank? Pu is more expensive, denser and doesn't take in water. It's a good alternative for a non-sandwich board considering price, weight and difficulty.
takoon and appletree use pu blanks and do their layups with resin infusion i think.

No, i use this www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/01-12930.php Divinycell PVC foam. 3lb per cubit foot = 48 KG/M3

For a 30L prone board going from a 1.5 lb to 3lb blanks adds...1.5 lbs.... (30 liter board happens to be almost exactly 1 cubic foot)

From the website "by making the core of the board high density foam, rather than standard foam, they'd create a much stronger base structure"

And nobody is making high performance foil boards from PU foam...PU is Garbage.

Thanks! Interesting material. I haven't been able to find d-cell in the EU. Do you have a spec sheet somewhere? Interested in the mechanical properties.
sounds doable for a prone board, but I'm not sure the weight penalty is worth it in bigger sizes.

In the wind-industry we use IPN foam mostly. Costs more than PVC but consumes way less resin while still having good bonding properties. NMG/Soteco www.nmgeurope.com/products/atlasfoam/ have a big factory in europe so might be possible to get sample from them? That said - foam prices across nearly all types has exploded last year.

will get my shapingbay up and running soon. Should be fun to experiment with a project like this. High dense deck/foil attachment and super lightweight (detachable?) hull/volume-distribution

Never heard of IPN, I'll have a look at it.
I can get my hands on Rohacell (a PMI foam) that is alleged to have almost no resin uptake and has better properties than conventional pvc, but it's about 5-10x more expensive: www.easycomposites.eu/Rohacell71-IG-F-PMI-Foam-Core
the day I win the lottery, I'll build a prepreg carbon rohacell sandwich board, but that day won't be coming soon I'm afraid.
i have experimented with nomex honeycomb, but that was more pain than gain.

ps: sorry for getting so off topic. Have a look at this topic in the wing section, there's more info there re this board.

Select to expand quote

mcrt said..
Your XPS boards blew up?.
Where do you live,did you leave them in the sun ,car ?.
I am interested because i was thinkng of making an XPS board...did they outgas and delam in places?

Left in a bag in the sun in bed of pick up truck. It happened twice from same mfg in Santa Cruz, CA. I then cut out the 1 foot bubble on the bottom and glassed it myself with West Systems, and had no problems forward.

See this for discussion for roughing up blank before glassing: www.swaylocks.com/forum/61397/xps-gassing-or-it

Select to expand quote

NicoDC said..

danish said..

NicoDC said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..

NicoDC said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..
That construction, solid PVC blank, is what I've been using the last few boards and it's lived up to the hype. Board has lasted a year with no noticeable flex, even with extremely destructive testing. I've managed a few dings but the foam doesn't absorb water so it's fine.

weight is a littler heavier, but on a small prone shape the extra complication of gluing the HD foam in one place and the lighter EPS in others adds almost as much weight as you save with the EPS.

nice part laminating is you can send the vacuum to the MOON! EPS you can over squeeze but solid D-cell you can pull all the vacuum you got for an even tighter laminate

Blank costs $250 more than EPS so that will show in pricing.

Grantmac said..
PVC blank should be far less labour than sandwich construction. Not that they'll price it that way.

Don't know where you got the idea of a pvc blank.
the average used pvc is 75kg/m3, eps 15kg/m3.
the blank alone of such a 100l board would be 7.5kg compared to 1.5kg.
maybe you're talking about PU blank? Pu is more expensive, denser and doesn't take in water. It's a good alternative for a non-sandwich board considering price, weight and difficulty.
takoon and appletree use pu blanks and do their layups with resin infusion i think.

No, i use this www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/01-12930.php Divinycell PVC foam. 3lb per cubit foot = 48 KG/M3

For a 30L prone board going from a 1.5 lb to 3lb blanks adds...1.5 lbs.... (30 liter board happens to be almost exactly 1 cubic foot)

From the website "by making the core of the board high density foam, rather than standard foam, they'd create a much stronger base structure"

And nobody is making high performance foil boards from PU foam...PU is Garbage.

Thanks! Interesting material. I haven't been able to find d-cell in the EU. Do you have a spec sheet somewhere? Interested in the mechanical properties.
sounds doable for a prone board, but I'm not sure the weight penalty is worth it in bigger sizes.

In the wind-industry we use IPN foam mostly. Costs more than PVC but consumes way less resin while still having good bonding properties. NMG/Soteco www.nmgeurope.com/products/atlasfoam/ have a big factory in europe so might be possible to get sample from them? That said - foam prices across nearly all types has exploded last year.

will get my shapingbay up and running soon. Should be fun to experiment with a project like this. High dense deck/foil attachment and super lightweight (detachable?) hull/volume-distribution

Never heard of IPN, I'll have a look at it.
I can get my hands on Rohacell (a PMI foam) that is alleged to have almost no resin uptake and has better properties than conventional pvc, but it's about 5-10x more expensive: www.easycomposites.eu/Rohacell71-IG-F-PMI-Foam-Core
the day I win the lottery, I'll build a prepreg carbon rohacell sandwich board, but that day won't be coming soon I'm afraid.
i have experimented with nomex honeycomb, but that was more pain than gain.

ps: sorry for getting so off topic. Have a look at this topic in the wing section, there's more info there re this board.

75 kg/m3 is quite high density? Hey, have loads of this stuff but with infusion-grooves. If you happen to come by Klitm?ller/denmark I will be happy to provide you with the foam u need

Select to expand quote

danish said..

NicoDC said..

danish said..

NicoDC said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..

NicoDC said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..
That construction, solid PVC blank, is what I've been using the last few boards and it's lived up to the hype. Board has lasted a year with no noticeable flex, even with extremely destructive testing. I've managed a few dings but the foam doesn't absorb water so it's fine.

weight is a littler heavier, but on a small prone shape the extra complication of gluing the HD foam in one place and the lighter EPS in others adds almost as much weight as you save with the EPS.

nice part laminating is you can send the vacuum to the MOON! EPS you can over squeeze but solid D-cell you can pull all the vacuum you got for an even tighter laminate

Blank costs $250 more than EPS so that will show in pricing.

Grantmac said..
PVC blank should be far less labour than sandwich construction. Not that they'll price it that way.

Don't know where you got the idea of a pvc blank.
the average used pvc is 75kg/m3, eps 15kg/m3.
the blank alone of such a 100l board would be 7.5kg compared to 1.5kg.
maybe you're talking about PU blank? Pu is more expensive, denser and doesn't take in water. It's a good alternative for a non-sandwich board considering price, weight and difficulty.
takoon and appletree use pu blanks and do their layups with resin infusion i think.

No, i use this www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/01-12930.php Divinycell PVC foam. 3lb per cubit foot = 48 KG/M3

For a 30L prone board going from a 1.5 lb to 3lb blanks adds...1.5 lbs.... (30 liter board happens to be almost exactly 1 cubic foot)

From the website "by making the core of the board high density foam, rather than standard foam, they'd create a much stronger base structure"

And nobody is making high performance foil boards from PU foam...PU is Garbage.

Thanks! Interesting material. I haven't been able to find d-cell in the EU. Do you have a spec sheet somewhere? Interested in the mechanical properties.
sounds doable for a prone board, but I'm not sure the weight penalty is worth it in bigger sizes.

In the wind-industry we use IPN foam mostly. Costs more than PVC but consumes way less resin while still having good bonding properties. NMG/Soteco www.nmgeurope.com/products/atlasfoam/ have a big factory in europe so might be possible to get sample from them? That said - foam prices across nearly all types has exploded last year.

will get my shapingbay up and running soon. Should be fun to experiment with a project like this. High dense deck/foil attachment and super lightweight (detachable?) hull/volume-distribution

Never heard of IPN, I'll have a look at it.
I can get my hands on Rohacell (a PMI foam) that is alleged to have almost no resin uptake and has better properties than conventional pvc, but it's about 5-10x more expensive: www.easycomposites.eu/Rohacell71-IG-F-PMI-Foam-Core
the day I win the lottery, I'll build a prepreg carbon rohacell sandwich board, but that day won't be coming soon I'm afraid.
i have experimented with nomex honeycomb, but that was more pain than gain.

ps: sorry for getting so off topic. Have a look at this topic in the wing section, there's more info there re this board.

75 kg/m3 is quite high density? Hey, have loads of this stuff but with infusion-grooves. If you happen to come by Klitm?ller/denmark I will be happy to provide you with the foam u need

sweet! Two reasons to visit Denmark soon, thanks!
I've worked with 75-100.
fibremax greece has 60 as well, but that might be a bit I prefer a stronger pvc to prevent dents etc. Also 60 is more likely to snap when trying to form around the rails.

Select to expand quote

NicoDC said..

danish said..

NicoDC said..

danish said..

NicoDC said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..

NicoDC said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..
That construction, solid PVC blank, is what I've been using the last few boards and it's lived up to the hype. Board has lasted a year with no noticeable flex, even with extremely destructive testing. I've managed a few dings but the foam doesn't absorb water so it's fine.

weight is a littler heavier, but on a small prone shape the extra complication of gluing the HD foam in one place and the lighter EPS in others adds almost as much weight as you save with the EPS.

nice part laminating is you can send the vacuum to the MOON! EPS you can over squeeze but solid D-cell you can pull all the vacuum you got for an even tighter laminate

Blank costs $250 more than EPS so that will show in pricing.

Grantmac said..
PVC blank should be far less labour than sandwich construction. Not that they'll price it that way.

Don't know where you got the idea of a pvc blank.
the average used pvc is 75kg/m3, eps 15kg/m3.
the blank alone of such a 100l board would be 7.5kg compared to 1.5kg.
maybe you're talking about PU blank? Pu is more expensive, denser and doesn't take in water. It's a good alternative for a non-sandwich board considering price, weight and difficulty.
takoon and appletree use pu blanks and do their layups with resin infusion i think.

No, i use this www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/01-12930.php Divinycell PVC foam. 3lb per cubit foot = 48 KG/M3

For a 30L prone board going from a 1.5 lb to 3lb blanks adds...1.5 lbs.... (30 liter board happens to be almost exactly 1 cubic foot)

From the website "by making the core of the board high density foam, rather than standard foam, they'd create a much stronger base structure"

And nobody is making high performance foil boards from PU foam...PU is Garbage.

Thanks! Interesting material. I haven't been able to find d-cell in the EU. Do you have a spec sheet somewhere? Interested in the mechanical properties.
sounds doable for a prone board, but I'm not sure the weight penalty is worth it in bigger sizes.

In the wind-industry we use IPN foam mostly. Costs more than PVC but consumes way less resin while still having good bonding properties. NMG/Soteco www.nmgeurope.com/products/atlasfoam/ have a big factory in europe so might be possible to get sample from them? That said - foam prices across nearly all types has exploded last year.

will get my shapingbay up and running soon. Should be fun to experiment with a project like this. High dense deck/foil attachment and super lightweight (detachable?) hull/volume-distribution

Never heard of IPN, I'll have a look at it.
I can get my hands on Rohacell (a PMI foam) that is alleged to have almost no resin uptake and has better properties than conventional pvc, but it's about 5-10x more expensive: www.easycomposites.eu/Rohacell71-IG-F-PMI-Foam-Core
the day I win the lottery, I'll build a prepreg carbon rohacell sandwich board, but that day won't be coming soon I'm afraid.
i have experimented with nomex honeycomb, but that was more pain than gain.

ps: sorry for getting so off topic. Have a look at this topic in the wing section, there's more info there re this board.

75 kg/m3 is quite high density? Hey, have loads of this stuff but with infusion-grooves. If you happen to come by Klitm?ller/denmark I will be happy to provide you with the foam u need

sweet! Two reasons to visit Denmark soon, thanks!
I've worked with 75-100.
fibremax greece has 60 as well, but that might be a bit I prefer a stronger pvc to prevent dents etc. Also 60 is more likely to snap when trying to form around the rails.

Not to rub salt in it, but actually built my bay walls up from 30mm IPN and PET foam cause thats what I had laying around

Nuff talk, will begin gluing blank together now

Well I definitely curious and want to hear and see more about this shape:

Why pay twice as much for a board that has half the material of other leading brands?

I guess they have to pay for the crap marketing videos somehow

A step backwards for KT IMO, I'll wait till next year KT, hopefully you come out with a design that appeals to the everyday winger.

Select to expand quote

north_kiter said..
Why pay twice as much for a board that has half the material of other leading brands?

I guess they have to pay for the crap marketing videos somehow

A step backwards for KT IMO, I'll wait till next year KT, hopefully you come out with a design that appeals to the everyday winger.

Gesus, dude. You slammed this board in the "Winging" forum enough already. I think its a refreshing and hopefully progressive design. Sure it's expensive. So's my foil. So is a block of foam these days. Let's wait till one of us hacks gets a few days on it prone to see how it goes before proclaiming it a miss?