Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but at my 93 kg I would naturally think that anything much under 110L would be a problem, even though the foil provides stability. Is the shorter length of the board that important or is it more important to have something buoyant enough to make the paddle out (and on to the wave) more manageable?

Just realize that you are going to learn a new sport. And as for surfing or SUPing, the best board to learn on is not the same one you will want to use after some time.

What is important for learning to foil is to have a board that you feel so at ease with that you can forget it and concentrate on the foiling part. Basically take your normal SUP board, or even a tad bigger. At first the foil makes things less stable, as all the underwater movements toy with it. 9' boards can fly quite well.

After you can fly reliably (after 20-30 sessions), you can begin to think going down in board size, as you will have learned to use the foil to balance on while paddling. I started on a 8'9" board and the learning phase was fine, but a friend started on a 7'4" and has not yet reached the point where he is flying reliably.

Good question. I was thinking about converting my 7'4 Minion @104L but my gut feeling was it would be too tippy to learn to foil on and after talking to a dude, the same weight as me @85kg and an experienced foiler, reckoned go up 10L in volume to make life easier to paddle and get it flying. I had been seeing guys SUP foiling in very windy and mushy conditions so the extra volume would be needed to get foiling in those conditions. I like the idea of foiling in conditions you wouldn't SUP surf in as too choppy. (I do heaps wind foiling and reckon that will help the learning curve but just don't know if it is worth SUP foiling where I live in Auckland yet as often flat out east or massive out west)

As Colas said, ride something you re comfortable with, like what you would ride on a 15kn onshore choppy day. The foil helps and hinders stability, and there'll be times when it throws you just standing out the back.

Length is something to pay attention to. Ideally you want to go as short as your comfortable on. I'd prefer going wider and staying short. A wider/shorter board produces less swing weight then a longer narrower board.

I'm 96kg, and love riding the Naish Hover 120, however if the conditions are good, I'd prefer be on the Naish Hover 95. But because it's really ideal conditions, I ride the 120 more often. I have no issues maneuvering this board, and there is rarely conditions that I fall off from lack of stability. Highly recommend it.

110 ltrs as a beginner you may find difficult depending on your ability. If you're totally comfortable with this volume even in the messiest of conditions, you may get away with it. But again, as Colas said, if it's another distraction, then it will hinder you learning curve.

Enjoy the glide,

Ride safe,
JB

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JB said..
A wider/shorter board produces less swing weight then a longer narrower board.

Note that by having the foil positioned so that you have the same feet position when paddling and foiling (no tricky moving of the feet on takeoff) reduces a lot the swing weight on long boards. It may be less efficient for pumping, but we are speaking of foil beginner boards here.

Ive had heaps of advice from this forum... thanks. I also struggled with the decision re which board to use for foiling. I have a 7.2 Minion and a 7.11 Speeed. (weigh 70 kg) I decided to use the Speeed. From comments and the newer designs for foiling boards, I think the Speeed is possibly too narrow making it quite unstable on takeoff. Because of this (and possible straps would help here) I often find my feet arnt in the exact correct position leading to a wobble start and often a fall.
Colas has given me lots of advice stating when starting, dont try fly high for quite a few sessions...maybe just go straight to get a feel of the foil reacting. Im on my 13th session and have had some wonderful glides but my next wave could be like it was my first time ever. Im finding it a steeeep learning curve.
My question to you knowledgeable folk: If I used a wider board, wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to learn. Colas made some reference to this re a friend starting or should I just persevere with the choice I have made. Casso...you refer to a combo Sunova board. In your opinion would that board be way easier to learn on than the 7.11 Speeed.
Always enjoy reading all your comments.

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tannaman said..
My question to you knowledgeable folk: If I used a wider board, wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to learn.

The speeed at 26"1/8 seems quite narrow. Is it too narrow? it depends if you feel you are falling too much while paddling around, preparing for the takeoff, and the start of the takeoff. Once airborne, narrow is good, but I suppose that if you have the board rolling a lot under your feet at the start of takeoff because of balance issues, it throws you off balance on takeoffs.

So I guess that if you fall a lot sideways on takeoffs, or feel that you cannot apply full paddling power because you are too unstable, the board may be too narrow for you.

My friend on the 7'4" had a different problem from you: it is a very wide board (33"), with a curved outline (pointed nose), so a lot of stability, but tons of row, and low paddling speed. So it was hard to get up to speed on takeoff by just paddling.

Thanks for your comments! I clearly need to get more water time!

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cantSUPenough said..
Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but at my 93 kg I would naturally think that anything much under 110L would be a problem, even though the foil provides stability. Is the shorter length of the board that important or is it more important to have something buoyant enough to make the paddle out (and on to the wave) more manageable?

Hey mate,

The shorter boards are exponentially easier to foil on. You have so much more control and direct feel on the foil. Because you are surfing the foil itself, the less board in between you and the foil, the less weight to break the structure and contact you have with the wing. In saying that if you cant paddle in or back out then its not worth going too small. I would recommend for your weight about 120 L. I'm about 95 kg at the moment but have been paddling for years and i ride 120 L SUP foil board. But then i also have a 6 foot prone short board i foil on. Its the perfect quiver for me so that i can foil in all conditions.

Cheers,

Ryan

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OceanAddicts said..

cantSUPenough said..
Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but at my 93 kg I would naturally think that anything much under 110L would be a problem, even though the foil provides stability. Is the shorter length of the board that important or is it more important to have something buoyant enough to make the paddle out (and on to the wave) more manageable?

Hey mate,

The shorter boards are exponentially easier to foil on. You have so much more control and direct feel on the foil. Because you are surfing the foil itself, the less board in between you and the foil, the less weight to break the structure and contact you have with the wing. In saying that if you cant paddle in or back out then its not worth going too small. I would recommend for your weight about 120 L. I'm about 95 kg at the moment but have been paddling for years and i ride 120 L SUP foil board. But then i also have a 6 foot prone short board i foil on. Its the perfect quiver for me so that i can foil in all conditions.

Cheers,

Ryan

Cheers Ryan for the good info. - I'm your weight - is an 8' board ok to foil sup with or shorter ?...what volume is your prone short board for foiling also please and what foil size / style do you recommend for SUP/prone. Thanks again.

awesome advice here, thanks all.

I have a takuma clone. Mounted it on my 9.3 sup, got about 6 sessions in before it broke the mount. Frustrating, as just got to the point of being able to get up on foil on every wave, and ride for up to 15-20 seconds at a time. It was super fun once it clicked.

think I will want a shorter foil anyway, less swing weight, easier to pump, more feel of the foil. However, I don't want to throw a lot of $ at something that is intended to be just a fun novelty. There's no one else around pursuing this, so can't trade off or demo - the only foiler in the village.

I now have it mounted to a friend's oversize Ocean Rodeo Duke, and have had 4 kite sessions in training on it for the first paddle foil attempt. Pretty sure it's going to be doable, but we'll see. It will be interesting to see how the pop up goes, will have to quick on that takuma, as it rises so fast with so little speed.

Seems that things are evolving quickly in surf/sup foiling, with boards getting much smaller and also with a trend toward custom boards (not intended for or capable of being supped or surfed). I have obtained a 5.6 firewire vanguard, kite version, that I intend to mount tracks in and hopefully get a 4-in-1 travel board: kitesurf, surf, kitefoil, surffoil. Anyone have any experience with foiling on a vanguard?

Meanwhile, I will keep an eye out for short(er) sups. On that note, came across this ad, 6.1 70L, now that would be challenging to paddle. ;-)www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,32853.0.html

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fm1 said..

OceanAddicts said..

cantSUPenough said..
Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but at my 93 kg I would naturally think that anything much under 110L would be a problem, even though the foil provides stability. Is the shorter length of the board that important or is it more important to have something buoyant enough to make the paddle out (and on to the wave) more manageable?

Hey mate,

The shorter boards are exponentially easier to foil on. You have so much more control and direct feel on the foil. Because you are surfing the foil itself, the less board in between you and the foil, the less weight to break the structure and contact you have with the wing. In saying that if you cant paddle in or back out then its not worth going too small. I would recommend for your weight about 120 L. I'm about 95 kg at the moment but have been paddling for years and i ride 120 L SUP foil board. But then i also have a 6 foot prone short board i foil on. Its the perfect quiver for me so that i can foil in all conditions.

Cheers,

Ryan

Cheers Ryan for the good info. - I'm your weight - is an 8' board ok to foil sup with or shorter ?...what volume is your prone short board for foiling also please and what foil size / style do you recommend for SUP/prone. Thanks again.

Hey mate,

I certainly wouldn't go over 8 foot. But you do just adapt your style based on the board you ride. That's why i have the option of prone for when i really want to throw it around, or SUP when i am going for a more cruisey session focusing on length of ride more.

For prone i was using my personal shorty that i put tracks into before we go stock of the Naish boards. Its 37 Litres. Since then I've used the Naish 5'6" Foamy which is 34 Litres and the Naish 6' prone board which is 34 Litres. With all of these boards they still paddle like a standard shorty. You have to paddle into the same spot as you would surfing. This is where a SUP benefits because you can get in, and up on the foil early.

I ride the large front wing on the Naish thrust foil. Its the original foil which came stock with a 70cm mast. Because all the components are interchangeable with Naish, i put the newer larger wing on. For my weight its ideal for prone foiling. In terms of mast lengths the new foils come stock at 55 cm. I do prefer the 70 cm mast while I'm up on the foil, however as I'm on a prone board (which is half underwater when you paddle) you need to walk out to over chest deep before you can jump on. I do drag on the bottom a fair bit while i paddle and when i duck dive so a 55 cm mast would probably be the smarter option.

Cheers,

Ryan

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juandesooka said..
awesome advice here, thanks all.

I have a takuma clone. Mounted it on my 9.3 sup, got about 6 sessions in before it broke the mount. Frustrating, as just got to the point of being able to get up on foil on every wave, and ride for up to 15-20 seconds at a time. It was super fun once it clicked.

think I will want a shorter foil anyway, less swing weight, easier to pump, more feel of the foil. However, I don't want to throw a lot of $ at something that is intended to be just a fun novelty. There's no one else around pursuing this, so can't trade off or demo - the only foiler in the village.

I now have it mounted to a friend's oversize Ocean Rodeo Duke, and have had 4 kite sessions in training on it for the first paddle foil attempt. Pretty sure it's going to be doable, but we'll see. It will be interesting to see how the pop up goes, will have to quick on that takuma, as it rises so fast with so little speed.

Seems that things are evolving quickly in surf/sup foiling, with boards getting much smaller and also with a trend toward custom boards (not intended for or capable of being supped or surfed). I have obtained a 5.6 firewire vanguard, kite version, that I intend to mount tracks in and hopefully get a 4-in-1 travel board: kitesurf, surf, kitefoil, surffoil. Anyone have any experience with foiling on a vanguard?

Meanwhile, I will keep an eye out for short(er) sups. On that note, came across this ad, 6.1 70L, now that would be challenging to paddle. ;-)www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,32853.0.html

I haven't personally tried a vanguard shape but i do think they would be great. I know North is coming out with something similar soon that will crossover all three sports. Kite foiling will definitely help with your surf and sup foiling. I started with kite foiling years ago and that's what helped me progress so smoothly into surf/SUP foiling. Because you can control your speed & direction so easily (unlike behind a boat or in the waves where you are at the mercy of other powers) its much easier to focus on foil control.

Cheers,

Ryan

Thanks Ryan for the great replies - massive help and much appreciated.

Steveo..i was actually thinking the same thing with my 7'8 x 115L minion. Its the board i use the least out of my quiver and has the most volume for my 95kgs. I believe the Sup Shed in Orewa can convert boards to take foils. I know very little about foling but do have a jetski to help with the learning curve. I figuire its chaeper to convert one- see if i get hooked then look at a Sup foil board in the future. Is anyone using a minion? Any thoughts

Chur

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Supmaori said..
I figuire its chaeper to convert one- see if i get hooked then look at a Sup foil board in the future. Is anyone using a minion? Any thoughts

As with SUPing, starting with a cheap board is a good move. After 30-40 sessions, you will better know what you want and will want to change boards.

The minion should be very good. Compact size and parallel rails work very well for foiling.

The important point is to have the mast at the correct angle (the wing should be neutral when paddling), and the box(es) super-heavily reinforced, connecting to the deck, and glass/carbon layers added to the hull. Dont worry if it makes a bulge on the hull, it wont matter.

Any thoughts on using the Foilmount Ridge mountingvsysrem to sticks to bottom of you board instead of using turtle mount anyone??

Chur

Any thoughts on using the Foilmount Ridge mountingvsysrem to sticks to bottom of you board instead of using turtle mount anyone??

Chur

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cantSUPenough said..
Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but at my 93 kg I would naturally think that anything much under 110L would be a problem, even though the foil provides stability. Is the shorter length of the board that important or is it more important to have something buoyant enough to make the paddle out (and on to the wave) more manageable?

95-100kg - 5"10 " to 6' 2" rider need to go 140-165l at 7" to 7'3" 30-33" . I have been messing around with foils for the summer and this is my conclusion so far. You have to be in position to take off on swells and chops so it is a little more critical than normal supping so you need volume and width with a short board once it is up on the foil.

I'm a 1st timer for SUP foil but I surf SUP as beginner to intermediate on 8x30 115L board and I weight 80kg 5'6".

What size board would you recommend and what size foil and any additional info that I miss?

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JEG said..
I'm a 1st timer for SUP foil but I surf SUP as beginner to intermediate on 8x30 115L board and I weight 80kg 5'6".

What size board would you recommend and what size foil and any additional info that I miss?

at 80kg i would say as a first board stay 7ft and under, i feel 105L to 120L would be fine this all depends on your skill level of course as well and if you pick things up easy i would go shorter more like 6'5 to 6'8 for a first board. You could go longer but i will say you will out grow it pretty fast.
On the foil side really this depends on what you want to do surf foil or get into DW? on the market right now the two leaders seem to be Axis and Gofoil and while there are 100 different brands the one thing i look at is are they progressing as the market progresses! Someone like Neil pride foils for example might have a good price point and work fine for just day to day foiling but are they looking at bringing out better wings all the time or just once a year like alot of these big company's do. You need to think ahead and think about as you progress will they keep up or will they leave you hanging and end up getting left behind!
Axis seems to be the most proactive on this front at the moment and Gofoil should have had new wings by now but for someone who was one of the first they have really dragged their heals on the progression front. I have seen some proto wings from Gofoil that seem pretty good so maybe they will pick things up soon.

Small light boards are the end goal so if you feel you can cut a few steps out then don't be scared to go small, we all learn't on bigger boards but this was all we knew and if smaller boards were around from the start 100% i would have started on a 5'10 and just delt with a longer learning curve if there was any!!

paul.j, thanks for the feedback.
it will be use for surf then maybe dw oneday.
can you pm $ for boards 6'5 to 6'8 & post to vico?
for some reason I missed the Axis brand foil in this forum?