Dpap said..
Ok my perspective on this subject is that trimming the stab maybe gives some advantages but ads drag and makes the foil nervous .Except Lift that I recently added to my quiver I also have mfc hydros 1250,1400and 1600 ,I tried shimming the stab there but hated ,I am always on the zero shim I prefer the foil balanced and neutral, for me a foil that needs trimming is wrong in angles but that's me also the design is the most efficient no bolts,gaps etc that produce turbulence at the stab that is the worst thing you can do to destroy glide the only downside that I agree is we don't have some alternatives in shape, size and airfoil to play with....

I like what you are saying, too much tweaking is annoying.

I don't know how Eric from the Progression Podcast is doing, he is trying so many different things, I wish I could do that in some way but I hate that, haha I'm too lazy I guess and I don't have enough time.

I like to trust my gear and go for it without thinking too much.

toppleover said..

Dpap said..
Ok my perspective on this subject is that trimming the stab maybe gives some advantages but ads drag and makes the foil nervous .Except Lift that I recently added to my quiver I also have mfc hydros 1250,1400and 1600 ,I tried shimming the stab there but hated ,I am always on the zero shim I prefer the foil balanced and neutral, for me a foil that needs trimming is wrong in angles but that's me also the design is the most efficient no bolts,gaps etc that produce turbulence at the stab that is the worst thing you can do to destroy glide the only downside that I agree is we don't have some alternatives in shape, size and airfoil to play with....

Interesting perspective, most of us trim/shim the tail to reduce lift/drag...I agree with the rest of your comments on Lift foils.

If I can easily explain ,trimming an aircraft if any of you have experience you see drop of air speed instantly that means you increased the drag and it is obvious even if you trim up or down elevator you increase the drag considering you do it to achieve level flight the same principle stand for our foils if the angles of attack are right and the balance is spot on the foil will achieve the best l/d altering the AOA at the stab ads even worse drag than a small trim tab at an aircraft elevator!!!Hope this helps but again all this is theory nothing is forbidden it is a sport not aviation!! and what mod makes somebody happy with his gear is a good one !!!

Dpap said..
If I can easily explain ,trimming an aircraft if any of you have experience you see drop of air speed instantly that means you increased the drag and it is obvious even if you trim up or down elevator you increase the drag considering you do it to achieve level flight the same principle stand for our foils if the angles of attack are right and the balance is spot on the foil will achieve the best l/d altering the AOA at the stab ads even worse drag than a small trim tab at an aircraft elevator!!!Hope this helps but again all this is theory nothing is forbidden it is a sport not aviation!! and what mod makes somebody happy with his gear is a good one !!!

Mmmm...
In an aircraft we have a fixed CG(not entirely true but close enough) and variable stab angle.
So we set Pitch&Power for a certain speed and adjust trim for zero elevator control forces.

In a Foil we have variable CG and fixed stab angle (once in the water).
We "trim" for different speeds by moving our CG.

Lower stab angle (or smaller stab) gives less downforce= less drag and IMHO more demanding pitch control.The position of CG has to be more precise and corrections quicker to maintain level flight.

As said above ,with variable CG we do not need the stab,it is just easier to ride with it.
The price is drag ,specially as speed increases.

When pushing the foil to its limit speeds the bigger stab angles become harder to control,foil feels "spring loaded" and fighting to go up.

I think the speed limit of a foil is when part of the front wing (usually wingtip?) starts to work in negative,creating big drag and control problems.
That is why smaller foils can go faster than big ones for the same rider,no matter how much horsepower we add to push the bigger foil.

Er...sorry for the rant.I like wing stuff :)

bjhjames said..

Dpap said..
Has anyone so far got hands on the new surf v2 lineup I can't find any info of the dimensions except the area wondering wingspan of the 150,200 aspec etc

Will have the 150 in a couple of days. Will let you know.

V2150 is 760mm wide Aspect 6.5 965 cm sq

mcrt said..

Dpap said..
If I can easily explain ,trimming an aircraft if any of you have experience you see drop of air speed instantly that means you increased the drag and it is obvious even if you trim up or down elevator you increase the drag considering you do it to achieve level flight the same principle stand for our foils if the angles of attack are right and the balance is spot on the foil will achieve the best l/d altering the AOA at the stab ads even worse drag than a small trim tab at an aircraft elevator!!!Hope this helps but again all this is theory nothing is forbidden it is a sport not aviation!! and what mod makes somebody happy with his gear is a good one !!!

Mmmm...
In an aircraft we have a fixed CG(not entirely true but close enough) and variable stab angle.
So we set Pitch&Power for a certain speed and adjust trim for zero elevator control forces.

In a Foil we have variable CG and fixed stab angle (once in the water).
We "trim" for different speeds by moving our CG.

Lower stab angle (or smaller stab) gives less downforce= less drag and IMHO more demanding pitch control.The position of CG has to be more precise and corrections quicker to maintain level flight.

As said above ,with variable CG we do not need the stab,it is just easier to ride with it.
The price is drag ,specially as speed increases.

When pushing the foil to its limit speeds the bigger stab angles become harder to control,foil feels "spring loaded" and fighting to go up.

I think the speed limit of a foil is when part of the front wing (usually wingtip?) starts to work in negative,creating big drag and control problems.
That is why smaller foils can go faster than big ones for the same rider,no matter how much horsepower we add to push the bigger foil.

Er...sorry for the rant.I like wing stuff :)

All these are true and to ad a little hint a nose heavy aircraft have a tendency to pitch up and a tail heavy to pitch down ,this plays at level flight don't confuse it with front and back foot pressure ,foot pressure is our elevator!!

bjhjames said..

Dpap said..

bjhjames said..

bjhjames said..

Dpap said..
Has anyone so far got hands on the new surf v2 lineup I can't find any info of the dimensions except the area wondering wingspan of the 150,200 aspec etc

Will have the 150 in a couple of days. Will let you know.

V2150 is 760mm wide Aspect 6.5 965 cm sq

Thanks but 76 span gives an aspect of 5.9 are you sure ???

Checked, 760 tip to tip underside. If you run the tape across the top its 770mm

Does anyone have recs regarding a stab to pair with a Lift 200 HA for prone surfing- I'm >90kg?

First post as I have been lurking around for a while and appreciated all of the great info this forum has:

Have riden the new v2 150 surf on 3 sessions now. Rode the new v2 200 one time. I am around 90 kilos/ 200lbs.
Only prone foil surf on 4 ft 5 36 liter board.

The 150 is an amazing wing. Super fast, good glide, turns really well, can pump pretty well, has good low speed lift for the size. Have to work a bit more to pump it compared to hs1250 or lift 170ha but turns so much better. Trade off is worth it with same amount or even higher top speed.

Tried 25 tail, new 32 tail, and 34 surf tail back to back during a session. All three tails worked great with the 150 v2. Think the overall winner for me was the 25 tail. 32 tail was easier to pump and still turned very well super close 2nd. 34 turned very well, not as good of pump (higher cadence) but had a great surf feel with lower stall speed, so still very very good.

The lift 200 v2 for me was too much of a compromise. Felt like an amazing beginer/ intermediate wing. Super stable. Pumped well but was slower. Turned decent but not amazing. Super good wing for stability and fixes mistakes like a better older 1550 Armstrong.

Still think the best overall wing for turn/ pump/ glide is the Takuma kujira 980 with a single mast shim and kd maui 13.5 tail.
This is personaly preference as the Takuma Kujira 980 has slightly more front foot pressure.
Lift 150 v2 surf has slightly better turning and has a great feel to it. So happy to have some amazing foils available.
Going to try the Lift 150 v2 with a 1 degree mast shim to see if it helps with pump/ even foot pressure.
Can not wait to try the Lift 120ha and the Signature Game changers some day hopefully soon.

Foiling is way to much fun!!!

The new 32 glide has the same exact longer fuse length as the 25 tail.
Also very thin profile like the 25 tail.
Very fast and pumps very well because of it.
32 glide has slighly less turn and ever so slighly more stability and less speed compared to 25 tail.

Why I wanted to try the 34 old tail. As it is significatly less of a fuse length.
Way more thickness profile compared to new 32 glide.

Hope this helps everyone. Think all three tails work well which is a good problem to have haha

HA170, V2-150, HA120 ... The HA120 with the 25 tail .. so much fun AR 10.2 & 775 sqcm

hilly said..
They look sweet.

Fark their website is a mission. How much does a full rig cost? It was $1k US for a front wing, how much for a whole setup landed in au?

I agree that they look sick, pricewise they look about the same as most high end brands.

amosshapes.com/shop/hydrofoil/liftfoils/lift-surf-foil-complete-kit/

Here's podcast eric doing shore runners on it
www.instagram.com/tv/CNvINB9gWPm/?igshid=y718qbj07q3x
I think fast, but high intensity work rate and high stall speed.

bjhjames said..

kobo said..
Here's podcast eric doing shore runners on it
www.instagram.com/tv/CNvINB9gWPm/?igshid=y718qbj07q3x
I think fast, but high intensity work rate and high stall speed.

I agree and I thought it would be "I think fast, but high intensity work rate and high stall speed."

Im 75kg, 60+ and only been foiling for a year so intermediate level and not that fit. I bought it just for the fun of it with real doubts I could even get it off the water unless I was being towed.

But, I have only been surfing it in 1 ft weak waves as that's all we have had on the Gold Coast since I got it.

In the tiny waves, I have had to lift it up with one quick pump at takeoff, then it just goes. Its happy going slow at around 16klm on my watch and doesn't drop out. I don't find it requires any more intensity or effort then any other wings I have tried.

How it will go when there is actually some push in the waves ..I have no idea but really looking forward to trying it.

The best way I can describe the diff between the three wings is

HA170 Like a Range Rover goes anywhere.

V2 150 Gokart

HA120 911 quick and on rails

Ha , I've been on the Gold Coast for the last week too ,so I know what you mean about the waves, small wings can be surprising hey , get them up to speed and they have less drag and like to zip around more than the bigger wing, but go too slow and show is over.

This Lift 120 seems very good, any more reviews, what about compare this wing to Unifoil150 or Kujra 980 ??

frenchfoiler said..

This Lift 120 seems very good, any more reviews, what about compare this wing to Unifoil150 or Kujra 980 ??

I have been switching back and forth between Kujira 980, 1210 and Lift 150 v2, 120HA

Kujira 980 and Lift 150 v2 are very similiar LIft turns better (use 25 tail) Kujira is easier to pump and has more glide. Both seem to have similiar speed. Comes down to preference of rider.

Lift 120 HA has crazy glide and speed. Is amazing how it can glide and can harness super small wave energy. So efficient. Easy to ride small wave energy fast. Being slightly heavier I find it harder to pump unless there is optimum conditions. (glassy, no kelp, and not much current)
Being heavier you have to have a slighly ligher tap pump style unless you are going fast. 980 Kujira when pumping out of a hole you can push down harder when going slow and it will push back and let you accerate easier. Also with Lift 150 v2 will let you push down harder on pumping out of hole. With LIft 120 I push down while going slow and I overpower it and it just sinks.

Lift 120 is more back footed compared to Kujira 980. 120 has more glide and can ride a smaller swell easier. More stable on bigger swells also. 980 Kujira has more lift/ lower stall speed. Kujira 980 is little bit easier to turn tighter but not as fast as 120ha.
Going to base place shim the 120 next. Base plate 150 v2 works well and use 1 or 2 baseplate shims with the Kujira 980. (2 base plate shims for easier pumping but not as stable turning)

Think I am just slightly above the sweet spot of weight for lift 120ha (90kilo/ 200lbs) for pumping but still works amazing and I think my pump technique could be improved while riding it. It is definetly a special wing. Both with 25 tail and 32 tail.