I've been riding neutral buoyant wing board and HA foils but wondering whether there is improved glide and pump-ability using the same foil on a mid length of 7 foot ish SUP surf or DW board?
Has anyone been down this road and noticed any better foil performance ?

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kersh said..
I've been riding neutral buoyant wing board and HA foils but wondering whether there is improved glide and pump-ability using the same foil on a mid length of 7 foot ish SUP surf or DW board?
Has anyone been down this road and noticed any better foil performance ?

I've ridden all 3 setups (trad old school square, mid length and downwind board) but I'm not exactly sure what you're asking?

Before getting on foil it's pretty obviously easiest in order of DW/ML/Trad (unless it's super choppy in which case the trad can be easier to simply balance side to side)

Once up on foil I'd say it's more a factor of the overall volume difference/swing weight in the boards effecting performance than anything else.

I like that the trad boards nose disappears from vision, I like the ML the most to ride and the DW board is a session saver but definitely isn't my first choice for performance.

Glide and pump wise whichever is my lowest volume board wins!

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kersh said..
I've been riding neutral buoyant wing board and HA foils but wondering whether there is improved glide and pump-ability using the same foil on a mid length of 7 foot ish SUP surf or DW board?
Has anyone been down this road and noticed any better foil performance ?

I've been using a mid length 6'6"x20" home build for 18months, about 10lts plus. I have not found any improvement in glide or pump(I'm rubbish at it). It works really well at getting on foil with little effort using HA foils, in a lot of different sea states 8-35knts.
I've built a 8'2" x19" DW board and feels the same, pumping a little harder if anything.

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kersh said..
I've been riding neutral buoyant wing board and HA foils but wondering whether there is improved glide and pump-ability using the same foil on a mid length of 7 foot ish SUP surf or DW board?
Has anyone been down this road and noticed any better foil performance ?

Downwind or midlength in terms of glide or pump, is it gives a lot of spasticity control so the glide is easier due to horizontal nose and tail reference, and the pump is slowed down such that the down phase is a bit longer and I really get a good drive. When I get back on my prone or short and wide wing board, I'm more apt to over power it pumping, or not utilize the glide as well as I could, especially with a high aspect foil.

Thanks for the feedback....

It may sound a bit dumb but I'll try to rephrase it and considering I'm already up on foil ..... if I was out on a foil AR 9.8 on my 5'1" x 23 x 70L wing board in wind chop and able to flag and pump from bump to bump for around 200m, then I came in and changed to say a Sultan Prone 5'10" x 20 x 75L board, would there be a gain on how far I could ride and glide?

I'm wondering how much effect there is on the way the foil performs when the tracks are longer and further forward on a mid length compared to a wing board.

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kersh said..
Thanks for the feedback....

It may sound a bit dumb but I'll try to rephrase it and considering I'm already up on foil ..... if I was out on a foil AR 9.8 on my 5'1" x 23 x 70L wing board in wind chop and able to flag and pump from bump to bump for around 200m, then I came in and changed to say a Sultan Prone 5'10" x 20 x 75L board, would there be a gain on how far I could ride and glide?

I'm wondering how much effect there is on the way the foil performs when the tracks are longer and further forward on a mid length compared to a wing board.

Length and 'swing weight' are an important factor when it comes to turning and pumping. I'd say out of the boards you mention the longer / narrower one will have mast further forward so swing weight won't be that much different. Strangely I have noticed the glide is better on the long skinny board because you are not worried about stopping when board touches down, so tend to glide the full length of the mast before pumping up higher if required

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kersh said..
Thanks for the feedback....

It may sound a bit dumb but I'll try to rephrase it and considering I'm already up on foil ..... if I was out on a foil AR 9.8 on my 5'1" x 23 x 70L wing board in wind chop and able to flag and pump from bump to bump for around 200m, then I came in and changed to say a Sultan Prone 5'10" x 20 x 75L board, would there be a gain on how far I could ride and glide?

I'm wondering how much effect there is on the way the foil performs when the tracks are longer and further forward on a mid length compared to a wing board.

FWIW, i have been blown away by the difference with a midlength. I'm getting order of magnitude longer glides downwind.

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CH3MTR4IL5 said..

kersh said..
Thanks for the feedback....

It may sound a bit dumb but I'll try to rephrase it and considering I'm already up on foil ..... if I was out on a foil AR 9.8 on my 5'1" x 23 x 70L wing board in wind chop and able to flag and pump from bump to bump for around 200m, then I came in and changed to say a Sultan Prone 5'10" x 20 x 75L board, would there be a gain on how far I could ride and glide?

I'm wondering how much effect there is on the way the foil performs when the tracks are longer and further forward on a mid length compared to a wing board.

FWIW, i have been blown away by the difference with a midlength. I'm getting order of magnitude longer glides downwind.

It's probably just better balanced on the foil.... the only thing that will affect glide, is weight.

I find there is a lot of foil glide performance lost in lots of little pitch changes. Using a longer board and particularly a DW board make the foil feel like it carries more momentum I think due to stabilizing pitch. Sort of like how a MTB bike rolls faster and further with bigger wheels.

So....it's sounding like I have a good excuse to add the ML board before changing foils at least.

It has been on the cards for 2025 anyway. Ultimately, because I'm too old and impatient to learn to prone, I'm gearing up to SUP surf on those 2-3 foot crowded, glassy mornings, or for afternoon slop sessions when winging or riding the twinny isn't an option.

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PeterP said..

CH3MTR4IL5 said..

FWIW, i have been blown away by the difference with a midlength. I'm getting order of magnitude longer glides downwind.

It's probably just better balanced on the foil.... the only thing that will affect glide, is weight.

Its almost certainly that yes. Just in terms of kersh's question, I am getting way better performance with just a board change (and also with a Sultan).

Hardly anyone talks about aerodynamics in winging or surfing but at 15-20 knots there is going to be an appreciable difference in aero between the different styles of board. A narrow mid length which is also not too thick should have less drag than a DW board.
And when lots of riders claim to feel the difference in mast profiles it's possible that they could also feel less aero drag in different boards.
Our cycling friends are always looking at aero drag while we spend most of the looking at the water.
Just a thought

In the last few Life of Kai episodes he has touched on board performance in the air and how he and KT have been remodelling the nose of his boards.
Dropping into a 50+footer at Peahi with 20 knot winds would certainly be good grounds for testing.