I started to think about this side of the sport a little more after seeing and going to a few events lately and thought it would be a good time to chuck out a few slightly different ideas on how events should be run, the main focus on not just following in something like surfings footsteps but to look at what makes foiling so unique and what catches us all into thinking its the best sport ever. I know comps really are not for everyone and some might prefer it if it just stayed as a free foil sport and in some ways I feel the same. But humans being humans will always like to compete and if we do then i feel we should do it right and in a way that does not just make us a poor mans surfing event that will always be in the shadows.
I do have a part 2 coming which will look at a different side to surf foiling and a whole different concept.

If you have some different ideas then chuck them out as who knows what new and exciting concepts could be born from thinking outside the box!!

Here is the link to part 1 www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/blog/2022/3/22/foil-comp-surfing-part-1

Here is a link to my page where a few more questions and answers are asked in the comments. www.facebook.com/paul.jackson.54/posts/4929342640454828?comment_id=4931433530245739¬if_id=1647993477969592¬if_t=feed_comment&ref=notif

Weight and age such a huge factor for foiling. Thats my excuse anyway. Are you thinking of age categories at least?

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paul.j said..
I started to think about this side of the sport a little more after seeing and going to a few events lately and thought it would be a good time to chuck out a few slightly different ideas on how events should be run, the main focus on not just following in something like surfings footsteps but to look at what makes foiling so unique and what catches us all into thinking its the best sport ever. I know comps really are not for everyone and some might prefer it if it just stayed as a free foil sport and in some ways I feel the same. But humans being humans will always like to compete and if we do then i feel we should do it right and in a way that does not just make us a poor mans surfing event that will always be in the shadows.
I do have a part 2 coming which will look at a different side to surf foiling and a whole different concept.

If you have some different ideas then chuck them out as who knows what new and exciting concepts could be born from thinking outside the box!!

Here is the link to part 1 www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/blog/2022/3/22/foil-comp-surfing-part-1

Here is a link to my page where a few more questions and answers are asked in the comments. www.facebook.com/paul.jackson.54/posts/4929342640454828?comment_id=4931433530245739¬if_id=1647993477969592¬if_t=feed_comment&ref=notif

Great thoughts from the one ocean notes! I think it depends on where you are foiling on regards to the first wave in a contest situation. I think it really depends on your locale. Here in FL (Jacksonville FL and most if not all of the east coaston almost any day, the first waves is nothing more than a chip to go hunt for your real wave. That first connection ( not necessarily the pump, but if you can't make it out to the next wave, well then you might not do well) in my regards would be pretty high scoring. The fellas I surf with Erik, Pedigo, Brian Finch and others are masters of the pump and radical surfy flowy connections followed by pocket foiling. If your on a pump wing that can't turn you would suffer. If your on a small surf wing your pump game suffers and there might not be much offer for that first wave in small beach break, or big beach break. The best guys seem to find way to get it done. Flow, style, the read of the lineup and pump would all be part of a run.
Great game topic but depending on where your at might change the /criteria. I think the best runs should be rewarded and the pump plays into it. If at a point break the scale/ criteria changes? Just a thought.
cheers
dave

cool topic and just adding some thoughts as we are taking about doing a foil surf event vs a pump glide run up the beach type event, which is also cool. We are so lucky to be foiling!!

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paul.j said..
I started to think about this side of the sport a little more after seeing and going to a few events lately and thought it would be a good time to chuck out a few slightly different ideas on how events should be run, the main focus on not just following in something like surfings footsteps but to look at what makes foiling so unique and what catches us all into thinking its the best sport ever. I know comps really are not for everyone and some might prefer it if it just stayed as a free foil sport and in some ways I feel the same. But humans being humans will always like to compete and if we do then i feel we should do it right and in a way that does not just make us a poor mans surfing event that will always be in the shadows.
I do have a part 2 coming which will look at a different side to surf foiling and a whole different concept.

I say this is part tongue in cheek as I long for the 70's (albeit I was just learning to walk) when surfing was a social activity and not a sport...

I'd like to see competive foiling similar to snowboarding boarder cross. 4-6 person beach start. Course of a minimum of 3 buoys that must be rounded in a consecutive manner for a set number of laps. Points for finishing the course first. At least one wave ride per lap as defined by obvious propulsion from the wave and not pumping.. Points for style as airs, round houses, etc. such that style carries equal weight to finishing place. No interference rules unless riding a wave in which case surfer closest to the curl has priority for tricks etc. but cannot force the other foilers off the wave. A collision of a foiling rider with a swimmer or prone foiler is an instant D.Q. Final judging by video review if the "results" are challenged by the non winning foilers.

Helmets required. Kevlar recommended.

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hilly said..
Weight and age such a huge factor for foiling. Thats my excuse anyway. Are you thinking of age categories at least?

GREAT TOPIC. I like your comment hilly well said. Foil Comp's Surfing WOULD & WILL BE very entertaining to watch as a spectator sport for a good 12 months to say 5 years max? If you're say a teenager to like mid to late 20's

For a Foil Comp to excel in Australia I would like to see Whack'o Jack'o form ONE to put their money where their product mouth is for this Sport to Progress. Only then will foiling be noticeable recognised.

Hey Jacko.
My view on a couple of points.
1) You need to keep it simple not only for judges but spectators. So it's clear to all who is doing well. Tapering scores for multiple waves would be impossible to judge with 4 or more guys in the water .
2). Wave priority and pumping. I just experienced foiling in a contest where the majority pumped around me while I waited for a turn.
My thoughts would be place a priority buoy 50 meters past the break so you have to earn it if you want to jump the que.
Personally I prefer to use a smaller foil that surfs well but no good to pump.
P.s I ,m either too old or not good enough to pump around but enjoy competing.
Like all sports you want to include everyone (intermediates )as well, not just the elite.

How about, to try and keep it fun, everyone in with a chance so more will have a go.

(You could have a separate more traditional scoring/event for the elite foilers.)

Short heats 15 minutes
Every competitor gets a rating / handicap factoring in age, experience, fitness, sponsored rider etc
Two to a heat only
Single score out of a hundred at the end of the heat encompassing style, speed, connections and difficulty. Like gymnastics, skateboarding etc
Apply rating to score and then one competitor progresses.

(Multiple repecharge heats in play so you get a second chances. People who travel to join in won't worry about first round exits.

Person who gives their all and surfs above their usual standard wins the day.

Each time you win a heat and progress your handicap is adjusted. Or you could have it that everyones handicaps are adjusted up or down at the end of the event to level the playing field for the next one.

Works for sports like yachting and golf where you can have hackers having fun being competitive with scratch players, sometimes winning the day and loving it

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bjhjames said..


Short heats 15 minutes
Every competitor gets a rating / handicap factoring in age, experience, fitness, sponsored rider etc
Two to a heat only

Too hard Barry I'd just stick to Jackos open , 40 , 50's & 60's problem with all these age groups and repocharges you'll never get it done in a day. So for first one I'm happy just to compete in open and it's just luck of the draw in the heat selection at least that way you can get 2 or 3 bites at it with repocharges ( if your fit enough ) or 10 man 30 min heat and you can deliberately take out the other competitors, that I know I could win

I agree with Cocho, I'd prefer to see good turns & length of ride (like surfing) than guys pumping around all over the place (which is definitely for the younger guys, not that I can't do a 2 or 3 for 1) let alone educating people to judge that don't do foil to judge...the smaller wings give much better & tighter turns & arcs whereas my bigger pumping wings don't give me the same performance...just my thoughts...I say keep it simple...

I am hoping to introduce foiling into an annual surf competition I go in. There may be some resistance as it runs over 2 days and its pretty tight to fit everything in We will be lucky if we get 4 foil participants and I would look for a straight open final with a mix of prone and sup foil and judging the same as the surfing ie 2 best waves count but allow more than one on a wave if you are not impeding the first up surfer If someone can catch 4 waves at once then each wave would get individualscores To even things up the old guy on a sup can use his foil drive motor. And the judges can decide what is worth more points This is an annual firefighter surf competition so a complicated scoring system or introducing too many new things at once is not an option! Thanks

Quite a bit to reply to on here so hopefully I can get a bit of time to tomorrow to go through and answer some stuff.

One thing to keep in mind no one is getting scored for pumping and pumping around would score nothing, only turns and good wave riding scores.

Also I seem to hear quite a bit of the smaller wings surf better but don't pump, I really have to question this this as from what I see heaps of people are riding wings in the 700-800 size that can crank turns and still pump and link a heap of waves.
We also have to put a side ones personal skill levels and maybe look at the big picture, if I couldn't link 4 waves then it would be easy to just try and push for a 2 wave max link but this might not be best for the sport. Of course not everyone can link 2,3,4 waves and this is something that also has to be thought about it is something that could be easily solved with a amateur division or something along those lines. We also have to reward the progression and once riders can and do learn how to pump and link this should be accommodated for as well in the higher divisions. Pumping by the way is not just for the kids, I am 45 and can pump around in the surf for 20mins if the day is right and to link 2 or 3 waves pretty much anyone can do with time and the right technique(good gear helps as well)

If I get more time I will answer some other questions tomorrow but great to see some having a good discussion and keeping open minded.

In France the surf F?deration is working on it (I'm worlking with them) and it should be shortboard criteria (no strpas) with 1 + 2 max.
But there would also be "air show" on the side with straps, biggest move, biggest rotation, biggest air, etc...

I think it would be nice to add a technical race and have on overall result with the race and the surf combined.

Have a look on the "foil surf racing league" in florida...maybe half race and half "surf jugement " and the winner is the best in both, could be a fun format...

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glennc said..
Hey Jacko.
My view on a couple of points.
1) You need to keep it simple not only for judges but spectators. So it's clear to all who is doing well. Tapering scores for multiple waves would be impossible to judge with 4 or more guys in the water .
2). Wave priority and pumping. I just experienced foiling in a contest where the majority pumped around me while I waited for a turn.
My thoughts would be place a priority buoy 50 meters past the break so you have to earn it if you want to jump the que.
Personally I prefer to use a smaller foil that surfs well but no good to pump.
P.s I ,m either too old or not good enough to pump around but enjoy competing.
Like all sports you want to include everyone (intermediates )as well, not just the elite.

After running two SUP Foil surf comps now, being so new and always open to options, we had foil only judges on the last one, we didn't count pumping as points etc BUT cocko for Scotts i can put one of my markers out for that rule, i like that idea

I think there is room for major disruption in competitions. Foiling is just nothing like surfing, and let's be honest - we don't have the following that big time surfing comps do YET. And foiling is a tough sport to watch, and not well suited for "heat" style competition.

So, how about we pair up each competitor with a videographer (choice of on-land, in-water, and/or drone). Choose a location and give each competitor a 30 minute window and then 4 hours to edit/produce a 1-3 minute highlight with music. Publish on the internet for impartial judges that don't necessarily need to be onsite. Viewing party and awards ceremony the same night. Competitors and sponsors alike enjoy prolonged exposure from the videos.

I think a world tour like this could be put on very affordably for this fast growing sport that doesn't yet have the proven draw for a big money tour.

I think the best part of foiling is working with another rider to play off their line and enhance each other's style through collaboration.

I'd love to see syncronized doubles, two riders working together for the best flow, connection, collaboration.