Good Stuff JB, still looks like too hard work for me atm , going to wing it for a while until I can stay on foil for longer with no assistance, I would have come off the foil a lot more than 3 times in those conditions I recon ,imagine it would be much easier with a 20kn or stronger NE or S wind behind you.Also the paddle out must be hell, and if the wind was stronger even more hell haha.Glad you are honest about how hard it really is, is that why you are using a 125 ltr board and big foil too?

Great info and vid.. and making it look way too easy..

JB said..
With the Nor-Easters becoming more regular, it was time to get back out and proper Downwinding.

Whilst is was not the best conditions for it, I did enjoy getting back behind the paddle and leaving the Wing in the car for a DW lap.

I am competent in DW'ing, but far from "good" at it. So I thought I'd share my run and experiences for others to learn off and share best practice.

Wind was really light and super onshore (ESE) about 12-15kn. with some very still/painful lulls.

My run was from Mona Vale Basin to Brown Water (a little over 6km), but with the onshore East wind I did (have to/chose) paddle out 2km (upwind) before starting which was a little painful.

I am 6'2" and 90kg. Riding the Hover 125 and using a proto foil 2140 with 310HA & 75cm mast.

The video is very long, but I added in some comments. I made some errors on this run (it was hard), but sometimes it is good to see things not from a freak. Enjoy watching which bit you want to.

Here's the entire run, The upwind was hard work!! But necessary with the onshore winds.

Just the DW part. This includes coming off the foil twice where I was working too hard to stay east and needed to get my HR down. No point cooking yourself early on in the run.

And the fun bit at the end which was about 3km of surfing home. Still a little tight to the wind, but lots of fun.

and the video. This has the 3 paddle ups, and a lot of crouch cam DW'ing. Enjoy.

Downwinding is not easy, but it really is the ultimate in Foiling. The Wing-Surfer is a great vehicle to learning and experiencing it, but there really is nothing like doing it under paddle and surfing all the way. Highly recommended anyone persists and practices. Do some short runs, and learn to read the swells. I still have a long way to go, but love it and yesterday re-inspired my want to DW more.

P.s. I still love the WING

Ride safe,

JB

Great vid to see how it's done - nice soundtrack too
I agree that downwinding without sail or wing has a kind of "pure" appeal. Looks nice and technical too.
It's inspiring watching Marcus nail it here at Cott.

How hard would it be for a newbie SUP'er (with 3 years foil experience) to balance on the Hover 125 with a 2140 foil?
What size board could an 80kg paddler go to get max stability, yet still offer some downwind foil performance?

Cheers JJ

kobo said..

Windgenuity said..

Some times smaller bumps are easier.

Please explain ? (to quote someone infamous)

LOL,

Smaller bumps travel slower and therefore easier to catch. This was in relation to your "and more hell" which I assumed you meant more swell. Contrary to what we might think, swell is actually a distraction to DW'ing. On a glamour day when everything is lining up perfectly, for sure, swells are fun as. But the other 99% of runs you'll likely do, you want to be inking bumps, chops and navigating the groomed lines not the swells. If you get a quick swell run = bonus, but get off it quick and get back in the groove.

In this video the swell was running SE which is roughly 90 degrees to the wind (a bit less as it was very east). But as I was gliding the bumps were coming at me from the front left, not from behind. And the swell was probably a little big adding to the work load.

There is an equation to measure swell/bump speed, I think it is 1.5 times the period in deep water. i.e. 10 sec swell is travelling 15kn (27.5kmh) which is quite fast. This is why we can't just paddle onto big ocean swells. But the little bumps in between are more like 3 seconds apart, therefore traveling about 4.5kn (8.3kmh) which is far more achievable to "catch". Obviously there is a size we need to be on to maintain flight once we're up, but there is a bit of a selection game you have to play to get up. Hence why you don't just get out there and paddle onto the first bump that comes along. You are kind of waiting for that small 3sec bump to combine with a middle-sized 6sec bump moving with a 8-10sec swell. Good timing and some explosive paddling and you're up. Once you pop up, you let the swell go. Hopefully you catch the mid-sized pumps and start looking for another convergence of bumps.

The ocean is pulses of energy. The water is somewhat stationary, and the bumps are energy moving through it. A long traveling swell/bump/wind will become "groomed" and a set pattern becomes evident. This makes gates, troughs and runs that when you're ready you need to find, avoid and maximise. But it all revolves around the smaller ones. This is your bread and butter. DW'ing is more about going slow than fast. Speed is a by-product.

Hope that helps explain.

Enjoy,

JB

hilly said..

azymuth said..How hard would it be for a newbie SUP'er (with 3 years foil experience) to balance on the Hover 125 with a 2140 foil? What size board could an 80kg paddler go to get max stability, yet still offer some downwind foil performance?

Cheers JJ

You could balance easily. But to get enough speed to catch a runner is the issue. Wider boards are easier to stand on but harder to paddle fast and are sticky, so hard to get up on the foil. I would have thought the 110 would be better.
Hover Wing/SUP 110 5'10" / 177.8 cm29" / 73.7 cm 4 3/10" / 10.9 cm 110 L

Technically yes, narrower can be faster, but also longer is faster. Being able to unload 110% instantly is far more advantageous than going narrower. The seconds it can take to get organised on a smaller narrower board can cost you the bump. Every bump you miss costs you a lot of energy. I suggest be comfortable, go bigger and use a bigger foil. If you're swimming on the 110 (which at 80kg you might be) then that is a great place to be. I am 6'2" and 90kg, while I am totally competent on the 110, after a while out in the bumps and chop you start getting worn down. I am really enjoying the 125 for this reason.

Hope all this helps a little,

Get out there do some short runs. even doing quick 1km runs will build your skills and awareness.

Ride safe,

JB

Most interstate people couldn't or didn't travel Hilly and that's why the downwind foil numbers were low. There was 10 last year And it was prob only about 18 knots at times. Yes dinging is more popular but as a person who does both I'd rather DW with just with a paddle! But that's the great to do what ever floats your boat! Bloody he'll people paddle canoes ha ha. I fear with ding racing once people realize they can run specific equipment just to go fast it might lose its fun appeal and become a gear war. But hopefully that doesn't happen.

Great information JB. I noticed you do a lot more pumping than paddling to maintain flight. Is that just preference? It seems paddling will be less taxing on the cardio.

What do you think of fins on the board to help with paddling?

Thanks for sharing the experience - I'm the same weight as you, but most likely less fit, so I share the pains, frustrations and jubilations once it does go right.

In Cape Town there is not a chance that I'd be able to launch in 12-15kn - ave. windspeed has to be min 20-22kn (ideally more) before I even try these days - I have learned the long hard way. I also ride a bigger board 6'5 x28 112L as the frustration of being stuck on the water is not worth it.

I doubt you will see much cross-over from wing downwind to paddle downwind - I agree paddling feels more pure and more rewarding, but it's just so much harder I think the uptake will still be very limited, at least for the over 45's.

I'm still hoping foil and board development will improve the ease of paddle downwinding but I'm not sure how much more can be gained via equipment - improvements are surely only going to be marginal going forward - I doubt there will be a magic bullet. As it stands, improving ones technique makes it less strenuous, but it's still super taxing in the fitness department. Well done in those conditions!!!