Another sweet looking DW board lineup: www.freedomfoilboards.com/freedom-ecom/foil-boards/dagger/5637991442.p?size=7%270%22+%28100L%29

Wow they look perfect they have done some serious R&D on that.

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Piros said..
Wow they look perfect they have done some serious R&D on that.

What do you think the R&D process likely was? Attempting to copy a Kalama?

I'm perplexed at why everyone is trying to copy the Kalama Barracudas and not the new Sunova designs??

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Hank1 said..

Piros said..
Wow they look perfect they have done some serious R&D on that.

What do you think the R&D process likely was? Attempting to copy a Kalama?

This is not a copy of the Kalama it's actually way off it and if you think it is you are blind , it's actually a very different progession of the original design concept and it will keep changing. These guys spent some serious time in Hood river with this , I haven't seen or ridden it but I like what I see .The DC Harpoon I ride is again another variation , It's not until you have ridden traditional shapes and even the new Sunovas you realise this design concept is really different and guess what , it's super easy to pop up on the foil. The learning curve for Sup foil DW and flat water pump up has now been dramatically reduced and even average punters are having success in days / weeks instead of months.

I agree with you that it looks way off a Kalama.

Sound like you have a great eye for the design details and insights into the next generation of boards.

Great to hear that the learning curve is getting easier. P.S My eye sight is actually 20/20, going to hold off on the seeing eye dog for now!

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Hank1 said..
I'm perplexed at why everyone is trying to copy the Kalama Barracudas and not the new Sunova designs??

Hank, are you referring to the aviator? Gosh, I sure would like to demo one. Think I'll give Gunther a call at Spunky's to see if they have any in stock.

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Piros said..

Hank1 said..

Piros said..
Wow they look perfect they have done some serious R&D on that.

What do you think the R&D process likely was? Attempting to copy a Kalama?

This is not a copy of the Kalama it's actually way off it and if you think it is you are blind , it's actually a very different progession of the original design concept and it will keep changing. These guys spent some serious time in Hood river with this , I haven't seen or ridden it but I like what I see .The DC Harpoon I ride is again another variation , It's not until you have ridden traditional shapes and even the new Sunovas you realise this design concept is really different and guess what , it's super easy to pop up on the foil. The learning curve for Sup foil DW and flat water pump up has now been dramatically reduced and even average punters are having success in days / weeks instead of months.

Totally agree, the only thing we can all agree is Dave Kalama was the first to use and promote longer/skinnier board especially with pin tail, everybody knows that and gives him credit.
Now it is not because everybody makes longer/skinnier boards that it is copying.

Maybe the photos don't help but it looks ordinary to me.

Dave's design still looks years ahead of all these efforts that supposedly have evolved his design including the sunovas. Lots of kind enthusiasm for new options but the only other design that looks interesting to me so far as a mere mortal is the DC as a distance second place.

As someone who is over 50 I know where I will be putting my money.

IMO, I think people need to stop worry about who is copying who. Progression does happen because of one person. DK, innovate the idea of going more narrow, longer displacement board plus many other innovations he started. All the other shaper that mimics DK's design have their own take (outline, rocker, volume distribution etc). Without back to back test on different board in same condition, its impossible to know which board is better. Photo is just a photo, we won't know how it preform until it in the water. Too bad its so hard to demo this type of boards or foil all at the same time.

I'm loving it, foiling(prone, DW, SUP, winging) is progressing so fast unlike surfboard design.

The essence DK's barracuda design is not "longer and narrower" it is in fact that the intricacies of he's design allowed longer and narrower to actually work.

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Ucycle said..
IMO, I think people need to stop worry about who is copying who. Progression does happen because of one person. DK, innovate the idea of going more narrow, longer displacement board plus many other innovations he started. All the other shaper that mimics DK's design have their own take (outline, rocker, volume distribution etc). Without back to back test on different board in same condition, its impossible to know which board is better. Photo is just a photo, we won't know how it preform until it in the water. Too bad its so hard to demo this type of boards or foil all at the same time.

I'm loving it, foiling(prone, DW, SUP, winging) is progressing so fast unlike surfboard design.

Without any doubt Kalama was the innovator of this design.
Innovators are not only eager to try something new, they're actively seeking out the next "best" thing. Given that the sport of DW foil is roughly only 5 years new what I find interesting is that it has taken the best part of 9 plus months for these other brands to adopt this design theory to their range.That seems like a really slow transition and certainly not in the category of innovation. That would not even be in the category of an early adopter!!

Some of these brands in my opinion seem eager to promote their designs as innovations however that's just not accurate. When you're 9-12 months behind innovation in such a young sport I would question the level of R&D and it's relevance to innovation and next best practices.

I think 6'9 as the shortest is too long. 6'0, 6'4 and 6'6 would have been nice also.

Advanced riders like shorter but still super narrow. I did a lot of testing, for exemple on weak dw, the longer boards don't perform as well as shorter board.
Actually regarding the conditions and your level, you don't need a longer board to get going even with a small foil.


Freedom is a good brand, the legacy is there, 100% dedicated to foil, I met Chris the owner in California when we all started surf foiling, he was a pioneer in foil board desing, a good foiler, really passionate guy.


The good thing about all those brands jumping into sup foil board dw is it will make this sup foil dw grow.

It always perplexes me when people post that something is nothing like some one else's design , or that it is the intricacies of the design that are different, but then never explains what those supposed glaring differences are. I'm pretty keen to understand these design differences as are most of my foil brain buddies so perhaps a little more detail on exactly what these differences are would help everyone move the sport forwards. Otherwise it just seems like brand bashing. Is there really anyone out there that can knowledgeably say that have ridden all these variations and can comment on their strengths and weaknesses. I want to build one so am keen to know.

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Slyde said..
It always perplexes me when people post that something is nothing like some one else's design , or that it is the intricacies of the design that are different, but then never explains what those supposed glaring differences are. I'm pretty keen to understand these design differences as are most of my foil brain buddies so perhaps a little more detail on exactly what these differences are would help everyone move the sport forwards. Otherwise it just seems like brand bashing. Is there really anyone out there that can knowledgeably say that have ridden all these variations and can comment on their strengths and weaknesses. I want to build one so am keen to know.

Kalama is very good at making stuff work. It's not any one aspect, but rather a sum of the whole. When he and Laird made foiling popular, they were using K2 snowboard boots and bindings to control their foils. Us mere mortals looked at that and thought, cool, but no. Now that he and his Maui friends are standing on wet logs and wobbling them onto foil, I'm not so sure about everything I thought I knew about foiling! I do know that it's not a 1/4" of chime here, or triple concave there, or the Kalama tail this year vs. last year.

Someone here once posted a pic of a 9'0" longboard with a foil mounted in the middle. I think he should get credit for realizing that with a longer board, the foil needs to be mounted forward and not on the tail!

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Slyde said..
It always perplexes me when people post that something is nothing like some one else's design , or that it is the intricacies of the design that are different, but then never explains what those supposed glaring differences are. I'm pretty keen to understand these design differences as are most of my foil brain buddies so perhaps a little more detail on exactly what these differences are would help everyone move the sport forwards. Otherwise it just seems like brand bashing. Is there really anyone out there that can knowledgeably say that have ridden all these variations and can comment on their strengths and weaknesses. I want to build one so am keen to know.

I wasn't specific for a very good reason.

I think the guys at Sunova and particularly one have their own pedigree and history and that should be respected.
I have however seen a barracuda in the flesh and picked it up and put it under my arm. I think the performance gap is pretty obvious to the trained eye.

I also think guys like Dave and Alex deserve their day in the sun.

My opinion is just my opinion and consumers should be discussing what they get for such a very expensive purchase.

I thought this guy was the first with the pointy tail idea. Or was he just the first to make it public. regardless, we are all going to benefit from it, so who cares. lets just keep going with the innovation

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Foiling/early-release-experimentation

I mean, if you want to get technical you can find any design trend you like in an old Harkin and sons post from 2018.

www.instagram.com/p/BXbEZ0mhRgL/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

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Hdip said..
I mean, if you want to get technical you can find any design trend you like in an old Harkin and sons post from 2018.

www.instagram.com/p/BXbEZ0mhRgL/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Just when I thought I could not admire that man more.

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Hdip said..
I mean, if you want to get technical you can find any design trend you like in an old Harkin and sons post from 2018.

www.instagram.com/p/BXbEZ0mhRgL/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Ahem

Here's the board in action

www.instagram.com/reel/ClH3YJwt7tQ/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Anyone know the weight of these boards?

It's really sucks that they leave off some of the most important info for those of us who have to buy sight unseen. I really want to know about the constitution too before I $pend those kind of buck$

Hey fellow Frothers,

We are looking to bring some of these epic looking boards into Australia via my new foiling business Stoked On Foiling. Anyone interested hit us up as we are collecting orders for them. They are not cheap but they are hand made and have some cool design features that should really help. It is good to see so many good board options coming out, as DW is not easy but the gear is making it so accessible now and these boards are also killer light wind wing machines.

I have been frothing on these since they came out and agree knowing the weights is important. Below are the weights directly supplied from FFB.

90L - 12 lbs -5.4kg
100L - 13 lbs - 5.9kg
110L -14 lbs - 6.3kg
122L - 15lbs - 6.8kg
please note that due the boards being hand laid the weight can vary +-1lbs.

Stoked On Foiling AU pricing that we have secured (+ shipped and Stoked On Foiling merch :))
$3449.99 - 6.9ft 90L
$3499.99 - 7.0ft 100L
$3549.99 7.5ft 110L
$3599.99 7.10ft 122L

Hand Made All Daggers are built by artisan board builders at the home of FFB in Southern California with every carbon double-bias layer expertly hand-laid.

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AnyBoard said..

Slyde said..
It always perplexes me when people post that something is nothing like some one else's design , or that it is the intricacies of the design that are different, but then never explains what those supposed glaring differences are. I'm pretty keen to understand these design differences as are most of my foil brain buddies so perhaps a little more detail on exactly what these differences are would help everyone move the sport forwards. Otherwise it just seems like brand bashing. Is there really anyone out there that can knowledgeably say that have ridden all these variations and can comment on their strengths and weaknesses. I want to build one so am keen to know.

I wasn't specific for a very good reason.

I think the guys at Sunova and particularly one have their own pedigree and history and that should be respected.
I have however seen a barracuda in the flesh and picked it up and put it under my arm. I think the performance gap is pretty obvious to the trained eye.

I also think guys like Dave and Alex deserve their day in the sun.

My opinion is just my opinion and consumers should be discussing what they get for such a very expensive purchase.

Sorry... did you really just say that because you have held a barracuda in the flesh and put it under your arm, you can proclaim all other designs to be inferior copy cats, without seeing them in the flesh, purely by looking at some photos? Man, that is some trained eye.

This whole Kalama thing is starting to smell more and more like a fanatic religious cult with Dave the leading messiah. Disturbing.

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theSeb said..

AnyBoard said..

Slyde said..
It always perplexes me when people post that something is nothing like some one else's design , or that it is the intricacies of the design that are different, but then never explains what those supposed glaring differences are. I'm pretty keen to understand these design differences as are most of my foil brain buddies so perhaps a little more detail on exactly what these differences are would help everyone move the sport forwards. Otherwise it just seems like brand bashing. Is there really anyone out there that can knowledgeably say that have ridden all these variations and can comment on their strengths and weaknesses. I want to build one so am keen to know.

I wasn't specific for a very good reason.

I think the guys at Sunova and particularly one have their own pedigree and history and that should be respected.
I have however seen a barracuda in the flesh and picked it up and put it under my arm. I think the performance gap is pretty obvious to the trained eye.

I also think guys like Dave and Alex deserve their day in the sun.

My opinion is just my opinion and consumers should be discussing what they get for such a very expensive purchase.

Sorry... did you really just say that because you have held a barracuda in the flesh and put it under your arm, you can proclaim all other designs to be inferior copy cats, without seeing them in the flesh, purely by looking at some photos? Man, that is some trained eye.

This whole Kalama thing is starting to smell more and more like a fanatic religious cult with Dave the leading messiah. Disturbing.

I didn't just say it, it was November 2022 after all. Pretty funny. What I said is not what you said obviously. My point was that at the time I had both paddled and felt one up which is more than I can say for the rest making comparisons at the time including the copiers.

A long time has passed since we had James and other major players claiming Dave's concept won't catch on and now we get to see how it all evolved.

Downwinders successfully learning in their 50's and 60's, both male and female due to Dave's r and d.

We have sunova finally going as long and skinny as the barracudas with their latest iteration.

Most of the field in the races on barracudas or the same concept design. Even an axis team rider or two on barracudas in the m2o so maybe it is the opposition who are doing the worshipping.

I paid full price for my barracuda and my advice has stood the test of time. If you spent the money on a barra back then you would be still happy today that you are giving yourself the best chance of being successful at a difficult challenge.

My advice was common sense at the time. Put your money down on a product you know was evolved sufficiently. 9 months later and now you can demo the barra in Aus and compare with the copies yourself then come back here with a useful contribution.

A little more than a cult. Historically now a revolution.

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theSeb said..

AnyBoard said..

Slyde said..
It always perplexes me when people post that something is nothing like some one else's design , or that it is the intricacies of the design that are different, but then never explains what those supposed glaring differences are. I'm pretty keen to understand these design differences as are most of my foil brain buddies so perhaps a little more detail on exactly what these differences are would help everyone move the sport forwards. Otherwise it just seems like brand bashing. Is there really anyone out there that can knowledgeably say that have ridden all these variations and can comment on their strengths and weaknesses. I want to build one so am keen to know.

I wasn't specific for a very good reason.

I think the guys at Sunova and particularly one have their own pedigree and history and that should be respected.
I have however seen a barracuda in the flesh and picked it up and put it under my arm. I think the performance gap is pretty obvious to the trained eye.

I also think guys like Dave and Alex deserve their day in the sun.

My opinion is just my opinion and consumers should be discussing what they get for such a very expensive purchase.

Sorry... did you really just say that because you have held a barracuda in the flesh and put it under your arm, you can proclaim all other designs to be inferior copy cats, without seeing them in the flesh, purely by looking at some photos? Man, that is some trained eye.

This whole Kalama thing is starting to smell more and more like a fanatic religious cult with Dave the leading messiah. Disturbing.

Seb,

It seems as though your fanatical religious Kalama cult theory could be correct???

Check out this clip of some of the guys who competed in the M2O discussing the Barracuda and Dave's innovation in board design.
It suggests the best DW guys and girls are apparently involved in the cult? I think you are onto something here Seb, but this cult sounds very enticing, I think I'm joining!

www.instagram.com/reel/CvrKbXsINd8/