Just looking around at SUP foilboards and none of the current crop are leaping out and saying buy me. All the boards on the videos seem to be very short and fat. The commercial products look to be a bit longer and thinner and a generation behind the videos.

Over the years I have had my best experiences with custom built surf and kite foil boards. Can anybody recommend any reliable shapers for a SUP foil board? Someone in Melbourne/Vic would be good.

I have recently rediscovered the joys of short surfboards. I'm a bit of a low energy surf cruiser. Are SUP's still the go for surf foiling? The profile of prone surf foiling seems to be on the rise. Is this part of the burst of enthusiasm for something new or the natural refinement of the equipment?

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Gorgo said..
Just looking around at SUP foilboards and none of the current crop are leaping out and saying buy me. All the boards on the videos seem to be very short and fat. The commercial products look to be a bit longer and thinner and a generation behind the videos.

Over the years I have had my best experiences with custom built surf and kite foil boards. Can anybody recommend any reliable shapers for a SUP foil board? Someone in Melbourne/Vic would be good.

I have recently rediscovered the joys of short surfboards. I'm a bit of a low energy surf cruiser. Are SUP's still the go for surf foiling? The profile of prone surf foiling seems to be on the rise. Is this part of the burst of enthusiasm for something new or the natural refinement of the equipment?

Short and fat is a pretty good way to go but also depends on experience. Staying stable is way more important than length but some find a little extra length helps at times.

Not sure who builds them in Vico but i am sure someone will be able to point you in the right direction.

All our more performance side tend to be shorter even the production boards, our customs are mostly just tweaked volumes or drop deck boards that are just tweaked from the production line.

The surf side is fun on either a surf foil board or SUP foil board and really both have there place.

I think it depends what your preferences are. SUP or Prone?
For me it is SUP as my main break is paddling a distance of anywhere between 100 to 200 metres let alone paddling another 400 metres to & from my break.
So in short. What are you most comfortable on? Prone or SUP. Because it is the type of water that you surf. Is it smooth or lumpy? Or paddle distance?
I have a relative who is a prone surfer & very strong hand paddler so I wouldn't recommend for him to get a foil SUP. He would be better off Prone foiling to get the hang of it.
So far I have found to get a SUP foil board at no longer than 7 foot if you are around 80kg weight by the width & volume that you are most comfortable on for your first board. The length will vary if you weigh more or less.
So you can then tell this to your Custom maker.

I had a 611x30 made that feels super stable for my 85 kg. Feeling like i could have gone 66x29. Or so.

@gorgo you can't go past speaking to Dale Chapman for custom foil boards. Will build exactly what you need. Aussie made and delivered. Plus he is one of the best Sup Foiler's himself. Look up DCPaddleboards.
I'm on my 3rd board from Dale and have worked down from 7,10 to 7'2 now 6'2

Gorgo, I never fly over waves on a wing but I just dream about and design the shape of the board to allows you to take off. I design it with the experience of SUPing on 6'5" knowing how hard it is to enter the wave with so few board area and drive.
So here what I designed.
What you think, please?
www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Account=6301&BoardName=NICKFOILSUPBOARD

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Gorgo said..
Just looking around at SUP foilboards and none of the current crop are leaping out and saying buy me. All the boards on the videos seem to be very short and fat. The commercial products look to be a bit longer and thinner and a generation behind the videos.

Over the years I have had my best experiences with custom built surf and kite foil boards. Can anybody recommend any reliable shapers for a SUP foil board? Someone in Melbourne/Vic would be good.

I have recently rediscovered the joys of short surfboards. I'm a bit of a low energy surf cruiser. Are SUP's still the go for surf foiling? The profile of prone surf foiling seems to be on the rise. Is this part of the burst of enthusiasm for something new or the natural refinement of the equipment?

Scotty goes anywhere www.smiksup.com/foil-boards

Nice looking design kami.

I just built my first ever boards...one sup foil and a surf foil. It is 6.0 x 28 x 5.5ish. Really chunky and fat. Don't know volume but it floats me no problems.

My prior board was 7.6 Riviera door. Pros of new board....once up it is tiny, no swing weight, feels very responsive. Cons...not much glide for getting into small waves. Have to be right in the sweet spot, which limits catchable waves. Choppy conditions are more challenging.

I am still learning the board, may get better used to it. But at the moment I am unsure if the added performance of the ride is a worthwhile trade off for the lessened wave catching potential. Last session, my buddy learning to surf foil was actually better able to catch the waves...bad sign (and frustrating as hell ;-)

I am just starting out prone surf foiling but one advantage I've found is it is easier to take off in white water, I am often knocked off my feet on sup.

So ... in choosing a sup foil board, maybe it's like any board, have to weigh pros and cons of paddling vs riding performance. Or have specific boards for conditions...eg a tiny rocket for perfect days, something more stable on less than perfect

So ... in choosing a sup foil board, maybe it's like any board, have to weigh the pros and cons of paddling vs riding performance. Or have specific boards for conditions...eg a tiny rocket for perfect days, something more stable on less than perfect



Thx Juan
You point on the common issue that " horses for courses".
Back on Foil board design thinking as a designer, I wonder how to lift up the board as fast as possible and to not catch the water once the board lift up.
That's means to have both ways under design control the forgiven fast entry rocker and a free looseness rails out of pearlings once wake up.
That's all, Juan, I keep on playing on S3D program in this direction.

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Kami said..
So ... in choosing a sup foil board, maybe it's like any board, have to weigh the pros and cons of paddling vs riding performance. Or have specific boards for conditions...eg a tiny rocket for perfect days, something more stable on less than perfect



Thx Juan
You point on the common issue that " horses for courses".
Back on Foil board design thinking as a designer, I wonder how to lift up the board as fast as possible and to not catch the water once the board lift up.
That's means to have both ways under design control the forgiven fast entry rocker and a free looseness rails out of pearlings once wake up.
That's all, Juan, I keep on playing on S3D program in this direction.

I am far from expert! But I went with flat bottom and flat top with minimal entry rocker...the nose does catch. I think I'd go with a little mire next time.

Tail rocker...dunno. seems to be difference of opinion on what releases best. See the website below for some theories...scroll down to bottom for the design discussion.

www.supsurfmachines.com/

That's a cool design Kami...great to see it come to life in the 3d model too..
Awesome man.
1+ for Scottys smik foil board too Hilly...I have the 6'6 and its improved my foiling tenfold...(mind you the only way was up bahaha)
Chur

That's a cool design Kami...great to see it come to life in the 3d model too..
Awesome man.
1+ for Scottys smik foil board too Hilly...I have the 6'6 and its improved my foiling tenfold...(mind you the only way was up bahaha)
Chur

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Kami said..
Gorgo, I never fly over waves on a wing but I just dream about and design the shape of the board to allows you to take off. I design it with the experience of SUPing on 6'5" knowing how hard it is to enter the wave with so few board area and drive.
So here what I designed.
What you think, please?
www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Account=6301&BoardName=NICKFOILSUPBOARD

What with the Rocker I can't work that one out ?????? it's not a surfboard its a Foilboard that glids in the air. Just a little Nose Lift is all a Foilboard needs with No Edges.

I'm no designer, nor foil expert, but my minimal experience with my new flat sup shows that entry rocker matters a little. A flat board with a nose kick has a tendency to dig the nose while paddling and then in certain critical situations, pearling on take off, touchdowns, etc. It's not a deal breaker, it's more that a little rocker would probably be helpful at times.

Though it's also a tradeoff: as I understand it, more rocker means less wetted surface, which will lessen glide. Like surfing a banana, very little board in contact at any time, but great for turns! ;-)

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juandesooka said..
I'm no designer, nor foil expert, but my minimal experience with my new flat sup shows that entry rocker matters a little. A flat board with a nose kick has a tendency to dig the nose while paddling and then in certain critical situations, pearling on take off, touchdowns, etc. It's not a deal breaker, it's more that a little rocker would probably be helpful at times.

Though it's also a tradeoff: as I understand it, more rocker means less wetted surface, which will lessen glide. Like surfing a banana, very little board in contact at any time, but great for turns! ;-)

I find a Foilboard that are flat with little nose rocker if The Rail are shape right are the best and work great. My foilboard paddles super fast and with no issues on the takeoff.
I've had a lot of surfboards with heaps of banana in them over the years they surf unreal in the pocket BUT gliding out onto the face to do a Big Roundhouse cutback will not work unless you are going super fast BUT to be a complete surfer you'll need like about 20 surfboards for the conditions e.g. small wave, big waves, fat waves and hollow waves.

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Downwinder said..
I find a Foilboard that are flat with little nose rocker if The Rail are shape right are the best and work great. My foilboard paddles super fast and with no issues on the takeoff.
I've had a lot of surfboards with heaps of banana in them over the years they surf unreal in the pocket BUT gliding out onto the face to do a Big Roundhouse cutback will not work unless you are going super fast BUT to be a complete surfer you'll need like about 20 surfboards for the conditions e.g. small wave, big waves, fat waves and hollow waves.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, not saying flat doesn't work, only that I've had some moments that I think could have been better with some rocker. I might just need more practice. Or my DIY board may just suck....hahah

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juandesooka said..

Downwinder said..
I find a Foilboard that are flat with little nose rocker if The Rail are shape right are the best and work great. My foilboard paddles super fast and with no issues on the takeoff.
I've had a lot of surfboards with heaps of banana in them over the years they surf unreal in the pocket BUT gliding out onto the face to do a Big Roundhouse cutback will not work unless you are going super fast BUT to be a complete surfer you'll need like about 20 surfboards for the conditions e.g. small wave, big waves, fat waves and hollow waves.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, not saying flat doesn't work, only that I've had some moments that I think could have been better with some rocker. I might just need more practice. Or my DIY board may just suck....hahah

You are spot on and flat SUP foil boards SUCK!!!!!!!!! Rocker is so key to a good DW foil board and if someone says it is not then walk away from that board real quick.

I am not surfing my SUP foil board i am surfing my foil and board is just a object that allows me to do this as easy as possible.

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paul.j said..

juandesooka said..

Downwinder said..
I find a Foilboard that are flat with little nose rocker if The Rail are shape right are the best and work great. My foilboard paddles super fast and with no issues on the takeoff.
I've had a lot of surfboards with heaps of banana in them over the years they surf unreal in the pocket BUT gliding out onto the face to do a Big Roundhouse cutback will not work unless you are going super fast BUT to be a complete surfer you'll need like about 20 surfboards for the conditions e.g. small wave, big waves, fat waves and hollow waves.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, not saying flat doesn't work, only that I've had some moments that I think could have been better with some rocker. I might just need more practice. Or my DIY board may just suck....hahah

You are spot on and flat SUP foil boards SUCK!!!!!!!!! Rocker is so key to a good DW foil board and if someone says it is not then walk away from that board real quick.

I am not surfing my SUP foil board i am surfing my foil and board is just a object that allows me to do this as easy as possible.

Check out this SUP foil the photo is poor quality BUT look how flat his board is with just a little nose lift it looks like a Jimmy Lewis shape

I can't see why you would want a foil board with rocker in a Downwind foil board it's all about the wing to glide - The flater the board the faster the board will paddle to catch the bump with a little nose lift.

I've seen foilboards with concave and chimes, They are definatly taking to much acid. Or am I missing something here.

"Check out this SUP foil the photo is poor quality BUT look how flat his board is with just a little nose lift it looks like a Jimmy Lewis shape"

Looking and judging at the rocker from far away, the rocker line is visually compared with the other lines around it like the deck ones. So on that picture up here the nose rocker seems to be lifted up but in fact, that's the slim thickness of the deck catching yours eyed reference.
For instance, the same rocker as before but different top lines and thickness make this board flatter.

It's 3D view= www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Account=6301&BoardName=DOWNWINDER

Phil what happens is your still effectively paddling into a bump and the water surface still has a curve in it not a flat. And the pumping rocking motion is easier done with some rocker. I found the boards with the tail bevel do this well also. Intially placed in foil boards to reduce touch down the also help getting lift off. So its not a surfing rocker but it aint flat either...

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Downwinder said..

Check out this SUP foil the photo is poor quality BUT look how flat his board is with just a little nose lift it looks like a Jimmy Lewis shape

I can't see why you would want a foil board with rocker in a Downwind foil board it's all about the wing to glide - The flater the board the faster the board will paddle to catch the bump with a little nose lift.

I've seen foilboards with concave and chimes, They are definatly taking to much acid. Or am I missing something here.

That board looks to have much more rocker than my DIY one. I took a 5.5" slab, and just cut some some nose kick into it, maybe 12" from nose, rest of bottom and deck is dead flat. And yes, it works, but if I did it again, I think it's prefer a little more rocker.

Chines: I have deep chines, following the examples of the supsurfmachines link above and Kalama's boards. Supposed benefits: the chines may help the board track straight while paddling; help lessen chance of rail grabbing on touchdowns. True or not, I don't know.

Concave: unsure if this would have any benefit on board bottom. Mine is dead flat. But carved some foam out of deck to be concave, which may help a little with "grab" of your feet while riding, also lowers centre of gravity a little while paddling so less corky perhaps. Or maybe no benefit and just more bells n whistles. ;-)

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Scotty Mac said..
Phil what happens is your still effectively paddling into a bump and the water surface still has a curve in it not a flat. And the pumping rocking motion is easier done with some rocker. I found the boards with the tail bevel do this well also. Intially placed in foil boards to reduce touch down the also help getting lift off. So its not a surfing rocker but it aint flat either...

Truly I understand what you are saying Scotty Mac BUT it's what goes with a flat rocker bottom that makes a fast DW sup to catch the bump using soft round rails with a Displacement Hull with a little nose lift as in 2"-3" inches. Grab two magnets put both north ends together and they will repel thats why I love a Displacement Hull = To Me its all about getting the board up onto the foil ASAP. and if the Displacement Hull does touch the water when you are gliding it's like it repels the water.
Look at Jerremy Riggs DW sup foil it's a flat rocker with nose lift and soft round rails. A very basic board the guy gets up and gliding on a bump within like 3 strokes.

Yes there is sooo many different types of DW sup foils on the market:- lets look at a surfboard - the most convetional surfboard is your basic thruster a basic thruster is like 18" 3/4 wide 2" 1/2 thick soft rails little rocker with a double concave and a very, very sharp tail edge that you could shave your face with so you can turn hard in the pocket. So when you see good surfing going down have a look at there boards it will be so identical to the measurement I have given, the only difference would be the surfers hight and weight will determin the inches and thickness of that thruster.
Yet the millenial surfer of today rides bizzare wierd looking surfboard and they think they are ripping yet they surf like the biggest kooks.

Foil wings; there are some awesome foil wings on the market and then there are some Dogs of foil wings on the market - You could have a Dog of a foilboard BUT if you've got a very good foil wing and ability you'll get that foilboard gliding in no time for a long disstance.

I want to show you this Prone Foilboard for instance it was my very first Prone Foilboard prototype I asked Simon to shape it for me I didn't copy anybody's shape and I was in Simons face in a nice way while he shaped it for me I said do this do that, take a little more foam of here. the board has a flat rocker, soft round rail with little nose lift and a Displacement Hull 5'8'' x 20'' x 4'' = 56 litres ---- Unfortunately that board was to small for me at the time as I was a beginner foil kook when I was learning on this board the board paddled like a machine super fast and would catch waves very easily BUT I found it hard getting to my feet on this board at the time I was like 90kg. So I sold it to good mate Marty Carter who's like 75kg Marty ripped on this board and progressed through the roof BUT Marty also had an awesome foil wing on that foilboard that helps to progress faster. A few of Marty's mate had a go on that Foilboard and absolutely loved it was the feedback I got. A few wouldn't comment because there will always be knockers/haters out there. So if that type of foil-shape works great for a Prone Foil I am going to transfer that to my DW sup foil-boards.
18 months later I'm Prone Foiling a 5'5'' x 22'' x 4'' 1/2 = 70 litres but am ready to go down to a 5'3'' x 22'' x 4'' = 65 litres

Phil you know it's just my opinion but have had a few custom boards made a got to the design I have now what I have now via trial and error. Maybe there are some variations like yours that work and we are both right but I am sticking to what I know because the 2 boards I have now are so good its not funny! I have to say I am not sure a prone foil board shape will be totally similar as the take off on a wave with a little power as compared to paddling onto a downwind bump on a sup are totally differet techniques. Once up and on the foil they are similar. Hey that's the fun of customs but it can take a few boards to get it wired which takes time and money!

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Downwinder said..
The flater the board the faster the board will paddle to catch the bump with a little nose lift.

But with a short foil board, you do not take off by paddling speed, you will never have enough of it. It is all in the rocking/pumping motion and getting unstuck from the the water. It is the foil which does all the work. And the board should be designed with only this in mind, forget traditional paddling speed.

I love that thread...

Since I start paddling on a 10' tanker 50 years ago, the first thing I notice and enjoy me was the pearling of water in front and aside the nose of my board and while my first take off and before my first completed bottom turn, I realized that I have to weight on the tail of my longboard to lift up avoiding digging with pearling the nose and gaining speed in the same way.
Today when I design on S3D, I still think about it and so blend the nose curves and think about all curves of the shape from there.
I would never think 50 years later to design this below here using geometrical functionality of CAD, the best planning bow as I can.

And yes GORGO, to reply to your questions Are SUP's still the go for surf foiling? The profile of prone surf foiling seems to be on the rise. Is this part of the burst of enthusiasm for something new or the natural refinement of the equipment?

I reply that's SUP is the go-to foil and I 'm very enthusiastic about the natural refinement of the equipment.

www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Account=6301&BoardName=MINE+100

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colas said..

But with a short foil board, you do not take off by paddling speed, you will never have enough of it. It is all in the rocking/pumping motion and getting unstuck from the the water. It is the foil which does all the work. And the board should be designed with only this in mind, forget traditional paddling speed.

G'day colas yes mate I totaly understand what you are saying It's all about the ROCKING & PUMPING = IF you know how to ROCK&PUMP to catch THE BUMP. There is a lot of guy that can work it out and some guys that just can not work it out.

I have not DW foiled yet, been lazy and not keen, BUT when I do it will only take me one DW run to work it out as I know how to read the ocean when it comes to DW paddling and my foil Wing of choice will be the Big Red Axis Wing for a big guy like me.

I have very strong legs, whick I think is going to be a good thing for me when I do give DW foiling a go, more so than just normal DW paddling.

DW foiling is only like 2 years old max and still in its infancy stage for at least another 2-3 years.

I do know that my Prone Foilboards work very good like excellent in the surf I've had nothing but great feedback.

One day colas I hope to make it over to your part of the world I have a very rich lady friend who lives in Eroupe and is keen to show me the place.

Phil there is no way you will work it out in one run no matter how good you read the ocean and how strong your legs are! Maybe you get a bit of action happening it that first run is in absolutely perfect conditions but I telling you downwind foiling is different an not as easy as it looks. I am no pro but put the hard yards in and worked it out a bit. It's worth it how ever long it takes. It's the bomb!

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Scotty Mac said..
Phil there is no way you will work it out in one run no matter how good you read the ocean and how strong your legs are! Maybe you get a bit of action happening it that first run is in absolutely perfect conditions but I telling you downwind foiling is different an not as easy as it looks. I am no pro but put the hard yards in and worked it out a bit. It's worth it how ever long it takes. It's the bomb!

I will keep you Posted Scotty Mac, Trust Me On That. and when you coming to the Gold Coast.
I have been to SA to York for the Australian Titles surfing that is when I worked for Surfing Qld in 2004
BUT not really a fan of SA and make sure you wear a head net those f@#en fly's hahahaha.

Hey good luck!

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Downwinder said..
I have not DW foiled yet, been lazy and not keen, BUT when I do it will only take me one DW run to work it out as I know how to read the ocean when it comes to DW paddling.

I hope you are ironic... Note that it could become a meme, just like the "Chuck Norris" ones :-)