Moses 1000 is by far the fastest downwind foil, for all around the lift HA200 or something by takuma is pretty good and for easy riding axis is the way to go

bigmtn said..
Lots of new wings lately, and I know a few of you, like Piros, have had a chance to test them. So which would you prefer for downwinding. Axis 980? Takuma kujira? Moses w1100? Something else? If you had to pick one, which one and why?

I reckon that would be a tough one for anyone to answer.

Are you talking with a paddle?

Weight, experience, conditions, paddle or wing would all have to be factored in

e.g. for me on Axis foils I still love the 900 or 1000 for downwind with the wing (I don't have any of the black series yet and haven't tried any of the others you mention) but I have no chance of paddling them onto the foil.

For paddling onto the foil downwind I have only ever managed to get going on the 1150 and 1020 (I haven't tried but in the right conditions I could probably manage on the 1010) however once up I would much rather be on a smaller wing.

Younger, lighter, fitter more experienced paddlers would not even consider the 1150 or 1020.

Everything is a compromise and everyone will be different.

bigmtn said..
Yup, that was why I asked what you preferred and why. They all have strength and weaknesses, but which would be your overall choice, and why. I wanted to leave it open ended and get a few responses. Not everyone is same size, has same conditions, etc. But if there are enough responses with some detail, everyone can learn a lil about all these newer foils.

I've only used the axis 900 for wing and prone attempts at downwinding. I find it great with the wing, and when on waves, but when prone downwinding I find it has a lot of drag and goes much slower than other foils out there.

Yep fair call.

I guess what I was trying to say was no matter what brand or the riders skill most of the time the best one for them for paddle downwinding will be different than the best for wing downwinding.

I have not got enough experience with the new foils to answer but will be keen to read some replies.

My answer: "I haven't found it yet...."

I'm 90-92kg and mid-fifties, so somewhat past my prime.

My first paddle downwind on SUP was with a Foilsmart 1600 low aspect wing - I was clueless and didn't even get out of the water - 7km's suddenly became very long...

Then tried a 2000 Foilsmart - got up occasionally - couldn't pump or sustain - another long paddle.

Tried Go-foil 280 (2400) - finally some success, able to get up (still a mission) but would blow up as soon as we got into some serious bumps. It just has too much lift and runs away with you.

Tried a 2600 Foilsmart - as easy to launch as the 280 and could now control the speeds - not the easiest to pump but had my longest (2-3km) rides on foil (still to this day). Tiring to keep going due to drag and lack of fitness.

Tried 250 Signature - difficult to launch for me, would release and then stall unless I found the most perfect bumps. Very sensitive to ride height and at my weight (and skill) I'm unable to pull it back up once too low - when kept at right ride height it felt great - longest on foil maybe 1-2km.

Tried 275 Signature - a bit easier to launch than 250 but still tricky and just too draggy and slow for downwind pumping, I've used it a lot on wing downwinds and there it hits the sweetspot for me with lots of carry, never overfoils and ability to be pulled back up if dropping too low and reasonable turning.

With the winging coming along it's just soooo much easier and forgiving and I can do endless runs without coming off foil and barely using wing - bring back the paddle and it's a whole nother set of challenges. Technique wise I don't think I'm too far off, I reckon it's 90% an fitness issue, when I'm fresh at the start I can keep some momentum but I seize up after 10-15minutes on foil every time....

So the most success I've had sup-foil paddling was with the Foilsmart 2600 behemoth (aka the Airbus380) but I have yet to do entire course without coming off foil. On the wing the Airush 1600's, Takuma LOL and Signatures are great. Foilsmart have a new 1700 which looks about right for my weight as does the F-one 1780 Phantom - but haven't tried them yet on dwds.

Still looking for the sup-paddling foily grail - so please let me know if anyone in my weight category has some suggestions? I have my eye on the Axxis 1150 and it definitely has the most glide of anything I've tried, but I've only winged it on flatwater and not sure how tricky it will be to launch on a sup-downwinder?

frenchfoiler said..
There is how I started 3 years ago, I'm 1m70/73kg, 45 years old, experieced/competitor sup racer and long time surfer.

2018 : board 6'10 x 27 - 115L Takauma/Gofoil 280 = slow but easy to catch bumps and able to keep up, before that I had Gofoil 200 but coudln't do it
2019 : board 6'0 x 26 - 115L custom 52foilco/Axis 102 = faster than GF280, easy to take off, I really started to do proper dw on this foil (15 km straight without stopping).
2019 : board 5'5 x 26 - 100L custom 52foilco/Axis 102 for light wind, Axis 1000 for strong wind. I tried the 900 but coudn't do it.
2020 : board 5'5 x 24 - 96L custom 52/Signature 250 for light/medium wind, Signature 210 for medium + swell or strong wind
for begining 2021 : board 5'7 x 22.5 - 92L custom 52foilco/Signture 250/210 for light wind, Unifoil 190/170 with 83cm mast for medium/strong wind

My good friend (bigger, taller than me, not a surfer, not good on wave but good sup racer with really good paddling technique) struggled for 2 years but now he can do 10 km dw and this is just the beginning. He uses a 6'0 x 25.5 -115L 52foilco custom board/1150 Axis.
Dw with paddle is not easy but it is not impossible ! Step by step is the way to go,

I'm currently using a 6'5 x28 x 4.2 112L custom based on the 6'4 Starboard Hyperfoil (just wider) - it's a pretty good compromise but I'd like to reduce the length. I like the look of your 52Foilco's - I've considered going shorter and thicker (I need min. 110L) but I'm worried I lose paddle speed for launching. Have you adjusted your technique to the shorter boards - more up down porpoise movement or is it more or less the same as when you used longer boards?

It seems like you've been going with quite a bit of foam (115L/73kg= 1.57 ratio, my current ratio is 112/90= 1.24 which is still lower than your latest board) - maybe I should consider more flotation?

My friend is 74kg - 5 years older than me and can keep going for 8-10km's using the 250 Signature and a 120: board. He is definitely fitter than me but even when I feel the strongest it seems that my 90kg is a massive handicap - or I just haven't found the right foil and board.

I went from a 4'8" prone board to a 4'6" prone board 52foilco designed by Greg. Night and day difference. All swing weight is gone. I'm assuming his SUP boards are tuned for this type of performance too.

!!! Are those the secret foil's that have been under the ONE boards all this time? Finally ready for production runs?

Sizes of the FU's?

PeterP said..
Sizes of the FU's?

All the Website side will be up soonish, Traivis just got some way ahead of schedule but we will have all the info up on the site when it is done. Still finishing of a few small bits and pieces.

Jacko

PeterP said..

frenchfoiler said..

PeterP said..

frenchfoiler said..
There is how I started 3 years ago, I'm 1m70/73kg, 45 years old, experieced/competitor sup racer and long time surfer.

2018 : board 6'10 x 27 - 115L Takauma/Gofoil 280 = slow but easy to catch bumps and able to keep up, before that I had Gofoil 200 but coudln't do it
2019 : board 6'0 x 26 - 115L custom 52foilco/Axis 102 = faster than GF280, easy to take off, I really started to do proper dw on this foil (15 km straight without stopping).
2019 : board 5'5 x 26 - 100L custom 52foilco/Axis 102 for light wind, Axis 1000 for strong wind. I tried the 900 but coudn't do it.
2020 : board 5'5 x 24 - 96L custom 52/Signature 250 for light/medium wind, Signature 210 for medium + swell or strong wind
for begining 2021 : board 5'7 x 22.5 - 92L custom 52foilco/Signture 250/210 for light wind, Unifoil 190/170 with 83cm mast for medium/strong wind

My good friend (bigger, taller than me, not a surfer, not good on wave but good sup racer with really good paddling technique) struggled for 2 years but now he can do 10 km dw and this is just the beginning. He uses a 6'0 x 25.5 -115L 52foilco custom board/1150 Axis.
Dw with paddle is not easy but it is not impossible ! Step by step is the way to go,

I'm currently using a 6'5 x28 x 4.2 112L custom based on the 6'4 Starboard Hyperfoil (just wider) - it's a pretty good compromise but I'd like to reduce the length. I like the look of your 52Foilco's - I've considered going shorter and thicker (I need min. 110L) but I'm worried I lose paddle speed for launching. Have you adjusted your technique to the shorter boards - more up down porpoise movement or is it more or less the same as when you used longer boards?

It seems like you've been going with quite a bit of foam (115L/73kg= 1.57 ratio, my current ratio is 112/90= 1.24 which is still lower than your latest board) - maybe I should consider more flotation?

My friend is 74kg - 5 years older than me and can keep going for 8-10km's using the 250 Signature and a 120: board. He is definitely fitter than me but even when I feel the strongest it seems that my 90kg is a massive handicap - or I just haven't found the right foil and board.

I think for 90 kg you need more volume but a little bit shorter. You don't want your board underwater, it is harder to take off.

Regarding technique, the narrower your board is, the easier it is to get up (if you are stable enought to paddle strong), I'm used to paddle only on one side, I never ever switch side so whatever the lenght of the board I can paddle straight.

That's an interesting observation about a narrower board releasing sooner - I guess it has to do with reduced wetted area. I also only paddle one side and can keep it more or less straight but I have had some boards just pivot too much making it too difficult. Straightline traction has to do mainly with length - but you can improve it with outline, rails, bottom contours and rocker. I have tried narrower and longer and had more or less same stability, but not better release - I haven't tried thicker.

Balance is not improving with age so thats another factor unfortunately, but my mate is proving this is a poor excuse.

For paddling straight, a deep double concave helps, also for easier lift the fin box need to be forward.

murf said..
These little beauties arrived yesterday. Cant wait to get them dialled in.

Great to see the mast base is slotted

toppleover said..

murf said..
These little beauties arrived yesterday. Cant wait to get them dialled in.

Great to see the mast base is slotted

Yes slots for 8mm as well