Luv ya work Oskar foil.

Yeh great work Oskar, and interesting info, especially about longer masts creating more swing movements of the foil and the instability of shorter mast while paddling.

Great video and very useful info for choosing mast size. Based on Oscars comments I'm glad I got the 795 vs 725. Which is surprising as I thought a shorter mast would be better for DW. More stability standing up and better pumping once up is more important than reduced drag paddling for me. Also understandable why someone else might want to go shorter if learning to paddle up and get going.

All good information for flat water but does a shorter mast, placing the foil closer to the power source in the bumps, have a greater benefit than the pump from a longer mast?

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AnyBoard said..
All good information for flat water but does a shorter mast, placing the foil closer to the power source in the bumps, have a greater benefit than the pump from a longer mast?

Depends on how high you sit/pump on the mast i suppose. Not sure that is a variable than can be comparatively measured except empirically from a first person point of view after many DW sessions.
Unless of course one has access to a wave pool ... mmmmmmm

Shorter mast still less drag in the ocean to get up , plus with the new long skinny board shapes , making contact in flight is no big deal as the boards just glance off the top of the swells without grabbing which helps you get away with a shorter mast.

Very interesting findings in deed! I am constantly being surprised by things in foiling that do not make any sense. Hands on testing is definitely the only real method for trying to understand the madness. Great video Oskar, you have enticed me to go try the longer mast again (although, I question your findings from my experiences) for a spin. I have been loving the 75cm, but will put in a back to back on the 85cm ASAP to see if I can replicate your findings or challenge them. I guess another big thing is everyone is different. I generally have a reasonable amount of paddle power, getting up is not an issue, but if I can steal a little more pump power, I am in! Being a larger rider, this is my Achilles.

Love informative stuff! Thanks again for sharing.

JB

I find as the perfect one size does all is 80cm feels good on the prone and perfect for DW.
This is on the 80cm and it feels like it has the perfect play in height adjustments, hardly ever breach and in big messy DW conditions it still gives enough play to be comfortable. www.instagram.com/reel/CrXvvbZMSES/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Stiffness, Cord and thickness are all more important IMO but great vid and love all the different thoughts and feelings people have and just goes to show what suits one person might not suit another.

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eppo said..

AnyBoard said..
All good information for flat water but does a shorter mast, placing the foil closer to the power source in the bumps, have a greater benefit than the pump from a longer mast?

Depends on how high you sit/pump on the mast i suppose. Not sure that is a variable than can be comparatively measured except empirically from a first person point of view after many DW sessions.
Unless of course one has access to a wave pool ... mmmmmmm

I was referring to when the board is still on the water. Shorter mast places the foil closer to the surface and bump power for the paddle up attempt. And yes not really measurable.

After trying my 85 vs my 75 back to back yesterday on my 1400 DW setup, Night and Day to me in favour of the 75cm. I would have to honourably disagree with the longer mast for DW or Paddle Ups. ll credit and props to Oskar, and fricken love his work, but personally as a more generously proportioned human, drag is the enemy, and a short mast is makes a world of difference.

JB

I think the point was more subtle than long is better.
If you are paddling up a slow foil, short will get you there quicker, which is I suppose what you've felt on the 1400.

I think his point on longer applies to the Armstrong HA which is much more high performance, at 13:50 he describes why longer is better once on the Armstrong HA, which is a very thin very difficult foil to generate sufficient speed, and the long mast adds something to the process.

Well he breaks the paddle Up into two distinct phases. Initial Short is better. Once on your way and pumping up to speed and height - longer seems
better. Not so simple as shorter is better or visa versa. Depends.

I understand the video and his findings, just don't necessarily agree. Even pumping. Personally I find a huge advantage to pumping on a shorter mast particularly from a flat water paddle up. But he is an incredible pumper for sure. I find the only way to enjoy a longer mast while up is to ensure you stay high even on the low end of your pump (never use the full mast), so essentially you have a heavier, softer less responsive item that you do not want to use the full length of. Don't get me wrong, longer mast definitely have their place, and for clearance, they are a must in gnarly conditions. But in my findings, for maximum efficiency, short is better.

Very important to acknowledge that everything is foiling is a weigh off, what ever gives you an advantage in one column will evidentially take away in another. It is all about understanding which of the columns mean the most to you and the way you ride. It is a great video Oskar did, and it did inspire me to get out and re-test based on paddle up, efficiency and pump (mainly pump). But for DW, I will be sticking with my 75cm as my go to.

Please understand there is not clear answer here, just opinion. We all want something different and ride differently.

Again, great vid and love being inspired to cross check things, test items and continue to look for the 1%'ers.

Ride safe,

JB