It's been a long time waiting for Armstrong to catch up to everyone else with a good all round surf foil but it's finally here in the new HA series. In the mean time I have test ridden Cabrinha,lift,uni and code foils all of which have great foils that pump, turn and glide well. Testing all the other foils gave me a good benchmark to judge the new Armstrong HA foils by , and honestly there's not much between them all, and I would be happy riding any of them. I'm stoked now I can stay on Armstrong not worry that I'm missing out.

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kobo said..
It's been a long time waiting for Armstrong to catch up to everyone else with a good all round surf foil but it's finally here in the new HA series. In the mean time I have test ridden Cabrinha,lift,uni and code foils all of which have great foils that pump, turn and glide well. Testing all the other foils gave me a good benchmark to judge the new Armstrong HA foils by , and honestly there's not much between them all, and I would be happy riding any of them. I'm stoked now I can stay on Armstrong not worry that I'm missing out.

Haha that is funny.

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hilly said..

kobo said..
It's been a long time waiting for Armstrong to catch up to everyone else with a good all round surf foil but it's finally here in the new HA series. In the mean time I have test ridden Cabrinha,lift,uni and code foils all of which have great foils that pump, turn and glide well. Testing all the other foils gave me a good benchmark to judge the new Armstrong HA foils by , and honestly there's not much between them all, and I would be happy riding any of them. I'm stoked now I can stay on Armstrong not worry that I'm missing out.

Haha that is funny.

Having said that, I still haven't ridden another foil that has the the top end speed and efficiency of the old HAs especially the 725 , but you can't have everything as I have discovered after riding multiple foil brands.

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kobo said. but you can't have everything as I have discovered after riding multiple foil brands.

Pretty stoked with the foils I have been on for the last two years. Never gelled will Armie stuff after the CF1050 and 1200. They were great surfing foils in their day. Everyone is talking up the new Armie HA offering which is good they have caught up in waves. I think his attention was sidetracked by the huge US market for flat water foils.

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hilly said..

kobo said. but you can't have everything as I have discovered after riding multiple foil brands.

Pretty stoked with the foils I have been on for the last two years. Never gelled will Armie stuff after the CF1050 and 1200. They were great surfing foils in their day. Everyone is talking up the new Armie HA offering which is good they have caught up in waves. I think his attention was sidetracked by the huge US market for flat water foils.

Yeh pretty right, I bought into Armstrong in the 1550/1200 days and they were the ducks guts of surf foils then, the 1050 was next and it was even better again, Then the downward slide started with the 1250 which didn't breach well , hence the chopping phase began. In the meantime other companies like Unifoil,lift etc had produced good HA surf foils and we're already in the market. The 1125/925/725 were next Army foils and definitely high performance but not easy to ride, technical to pump and turn but rewarding for those who mastered them. Those first HA wings highlighted the need for a stiffer mast ,which came and is one of the best masts around . But then they focused on revamping the CF range and then producing the MA range designed for wingers, which meant surf foilers missed out again so lots of crew bailed out. Finally they have designed a surf specific HA foil that is as good as anything out there atm.So I'm guessing the surf foil market is not where the sales volume is.

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kobo said..

hilly said..

kobo said. but you can't have everything as I have discovered after riding multiple foil brands.

Pretty stoked with the foils I have been on for the last two years. Never gelled will Armie stuff after the CF1050 and 1200. They were great surfing foils in their day. Everyone is talking up the new Armie HA offering which is good they have caught up in waves. I think his attention was sidetracked by the huge US market for flat water foils.

Yeh pretty right, I bought into Armstrong in the 1550/1200 days and they were the ducks guts of surf foils then, the 1050 was next and it was even better again, Then the downward slide started with the 1250 which didn't breach well , hence the chopping phase began. In the meantime other companies like Unifoil,lift etc had produced good HA surf foils and we're already in the market. The 1125/925/725 were next Army foils and definitely high performance but not easy to ride, technical to pump and turn but rewarding for those who mastered them. Those first HA wings highlighted the need for a stiffer mast ,which came and is one of the best masts around . But then they focused on revamping the CF range and then producing the MA range designed for wingers, which meant surf foilers missed out again so lots of crew bailed out. Finally they have designed a surf specific HA foil that is as good as anything out there atm.So I'm guessing the surf foil market is not where the sales volume is.

No it's not. Aiden told me that winging / towing behind boats is by far the biggest market in say America. Yeh the new Ha range is a much needed addition.

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kobo said..

hilly said..

kobo said. but you can't have everything as I have discovered after riding multiple foil brands.

Pretty stoked with the foils I have been on for the last two years. Never gelled will Armie stuff after the CF1050 and 1200. They were great surfing foils in their day. Everyone is talking up the new Armie HA offering which is good they have caught up in waves. I think his attention was sidetracked by the huge US market for flat water foils.

Yeh pretty right, I bought into Armstrong in the 1550/1200 days and they were the ducks guts of surf foils then, the 1050 was next and it was even better again, Then the downward slide started with the 1250 which didn't breach well , hence the chopping phase began. In the meantime other companies like Unifoil,lift etc had produced good HA surf foils and we're already in the market. The 1125/925/725 were next Army foils and definitely high performance but not easy to ride, technical to pump and turn but rewarding for those who mastered them. Those first HA wings highlighted the need for a stiffer mast ,which came and is one of the best masts around . But then they focused on revamping the CF range and then producing the MA range designed for wingers, which meant surf foilers missed out again so lots of crew bailed out. Finally they have designed a surf specific HA foil that is as good as anything out there atm.So I'm guessing the surf foil market is not where the sales volume is.

Great description, totally agree. I stayed with Armstrong from the beginning and currently love my 925 and 725 with 50 fuse and 140 tail (195 chopped to 140). Would you keep the old HAs or it's time to upgrade the lot?

I'm definitely keeping the 725 for towing especially ,as it's so fast and it also has great glide to get through some of the fat sections ,with the ability to pump and connect still. It's generates so much speed and g forces in the turns , I haven't ridden anything that lively so it's no going anywhere atm. As for the 1125/925 I'd love to think down the track I could DW these wings as they are super efficient ( 1125 still one the gorge race this year) but for me I think that's unlikely.I think the new HAs are a more realistic option for me as I can pump them with my eyes closed.

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kobo said..
I'm definitely keeping the 725 for towing especially ,as it's so fast and it also has great glide to get through some of the fat sections ,with the ability to pump and connect still. It's generates so much speed and g forces in the turns , I haven't ridden anything that lively so it's no going anywhere atm. As for the 1125/925 I'd love to think down the track I could DW these wings as they are super efficient ( 1125 still one the gorge race this year) but for me I think that's unlikely.I think the new HAs are a more realistic option for me as I can pump them with my eyes closed.

We couldn't wait any longer and towed the 680 HA / dart 140 yesterday in the smallest bumps imaginable for ah1ts and giggles. Was like 40 degrees yesterday and flat as. Antman myself and a mate who rides the F one eagles (used to be armstrong - you know the story). We were suitable impressed with its glide, turn and the pumping out to the next "bump" was outstanding. My mate also was on the lift 120 and said far more glide and pump. It still has a ton of lift (we need to take it back in the wkt 109 box).

We don't use the 725 for towing anymore and have been on the Ma 800 and 625. Just is still out until we get into some sizeable swell. The 580 might be the go on bigger days maybe? But for days you want to kick off and connect the 680 was far better than all three mentioned.

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eppo said..

kobo said..
I'm definitely keeping the 725 for towing especially ,as it's so fast and it also has great glide to get through some of the fat sections ,with the ability to pump and connect still. It's generates so much speed and g forces in the turns , I haven't ridden anything that lively so it's no going anywhere atm. As for the 1125/925 I'd love to think down the track I could DW these wings as they are super efficient ( 1125 still one the gorge race this year) but for me I think that's unlikely.I think the new HAs are a more realistic option for me as I can pump them with my eyes closed.

We couldn't wait any longer and towed the 680 HA / dart 140 yesterday in the smallest bumps imaginable for ah1ts and giggles. Was like 40 degrees yesterday and flat as. Antman myself and a mate who rides the F one eagles (used to be armstrong - you know the story). We were suitable impressed with its glide, turn and the pumping out to the next "bump" was outstanding. My mate also was on the lift 120 and said far more glide and pump. It still has a ton of lift (we need to take it back in the wkt 109 box).

We don't use the 725 for towing anymore and have been on the Ma 800 and 625. Just is still out until we get into some sizeable swell. The 580 might be the go on bigger days maybe? But for days you want to kick off and connect the 680 was far better than all three mentioned.

If it's as fast as the 725 but turns like the M800 and also pumps decent, you are describing my dream wing, hurry up and go tow it in some decent waves

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eppo said..

We don't use the 725 for towing anymore and have been on the Ma 800 and 625. Just is still out until we get into some sizeable swell. The 580 might be the go on bigger days maybe? But for days you want to kick off and connect the 680 was far better than all three mentioned.

Which foil(s) would you expect to ride for towing/winging at a place like Chicama, Peru? Would the HA725/MA1000 still be a safe bet (what I currently own for smaller foils)? Or would a HA680 be best if I wanted to wing it too?

depends. you pump and link there or just ride and get picked up? because the 680 will out pump the 1000! It's the longest left or something hey. so pick up probs. If pickup iid get yourself a MA 800 myself - still can't beat the Mas for in the pocket turning on decent powerful waves.

Cheers Eppo! No need for connecting there as you get picked up and towed back in.

I have the HA1180 and the APF1675 for sup foiling in very small slow waves.
But I have not enough front foot because the tracks of my board are too far back.
I will get another board but would shimming the stab help?
Now I have to move my feet after take off, not ideal.

The gap between the HA1180 and the APF1675 is very big , I hope there will be a 1280 coming out soon??

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Camarillo said..
I have the HA1180 and the APF1675 for sup foiling in very small slow waves.
But I have not enough front foot because the tracks of my board are too far back.
I will get another board but would shimming the stab help?
Now I have to move my feet after take off, not ideal.

The gap between the HA1180 and the APF1675 is very big , I hope there will be a 1280 coming out soon??

Unless you are reverse shimming, adding shims won't help with getting more front foot pressure; the opposite will happen. Reverse shimming IMHO, will not be satisfactory though. I ride the 1080 at 90kg as my small wave SUPfoil (1675 if I'm really desperate!). I can't imagine needing a size larger than 1180 as the span would be too much for fun surfing performance. I think Aiden from Armstrong mentioned this in a video, saying the APF1675 or even the APF1880 provided the next steps up from the 1180 from a lift perspective if you really need it. Get a board that matches Armie foils and you won't be wishing for an intermediate size foil between 1180 and 1675.

Select to expand quote

Camarillo said..
I have the HA1180 and the APF1675 for sup foiling in very small slow waves.
But I have not enough front foot because the tracks of my board are too far back.
I will get another board but would shimming the stab help?
Now I have to move my feet after take off, not ideal.

The gap between the HA1180 and the APF1675 is very big , I hope there will be a 1280 coming out soon??

Try the pump202 tail (no shimming); it generates a lot of lift and front foot pressure.
It's slower, but I regularly use it in small waves and it's fine.

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Pacoo said..

Camarillo said..
I have the HA1180 and the APF1675 for sup foiling in very small slow waves.
But I have not enough front foot because the tracks of my board are too far back.
I will get another board but would shimming the stab help?
Now I have to move my feet after take off, not ideal.

The gap between the HA1180 and the APF1675 is very big , I hope there will be a 1280 coming out soon??

Try the pump202 tail (no shimming); it generates a lot of lift and front foot pressure.
It's slower, but I regularly use it in small waves and it's fine.

I was using the 220, I ordered a 202

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Windoc said..

Camarillo said..
I have the HA1180 and the APF1675 for sup foiling in very small slow waves.
But I have not enough front foot because the tracks of my board are too far back.
I will get another board but would shimming the stab help?
Now I have to move my feet after take off, not ideal.

The gap between the HA1180 and the APF1675 is very big , I hope there will be a 1280 coming out soon??

Unless you are reverse shimming, adding shims won't help with getting more front foot pressure; the opposite will happen. Reverse shimming IMHO, will not be satisfactory though. I ride the 1080 at 90kg as my small wave SUPfoil (1675 if I'm really desperate!). I can't imagine needing a size larger than 1180 as the span would be too much for fun surfing performance. I think Aiden from Armstrong mentioned this in a video, saying the APF1675 or even the APF1880 provided the next steps up from the 1180 from a lift perspective if you really need it. Get a board that matches Armie foils and you won't be wishing for an intermediate size foil between 1180 and 1675.

Yes I was thinking of reverse shimming
I need a board of at least 115 liter
Unfortunately Armstrong's downwind boards are too narrow for me and the sup's are too short and too wide.

What brand board should I get?

I've had success DW with the Sunova 7'3 elite running 1675 APF / PM 795 but only with 202 and 220 tails no shim. Also works great for waves with 1125/180. I did have to make larger rear SS plates to go in the tracks to bridge the insert hole in the tracks so that you can slide the mast forward, because unfortunately with the PM full forward the rear holes line up with exit holes in the tracks.The Armstrong tracks are shorter than the Sunova by 1" but they are set 2" further forward in their boards.

You guys make foiling sound hard
Shim this, tail this, front wing this.

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hilly said..
You guys make foiling sound hard
Shim this, tail this, front wing this.

If your happy with a tractor to plough the field then drive the kids to school and take on holidays too ,then one foil setup might ok for you.

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kobo said..

hilly said..
You guys make foiling sound hard
Shim this, tail this, front wing this.

If you're happy with a tractor to plough the field then drive the kids to school and take on holidays too ,then one foil setup might ok for you.

You do not know what you don't know. All the best

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hilly said..

kobo said..

hilly said..
You guys make foiling sound hard
Shim this, tail this, front wing this.

If you're happy with a tractor to plough the field then drive the kids to school and take on holidays too ,then one foil setup might ok for you.

You do not know what you don't know. All the best

Couldn't agree more !

I posted this in the winging section (because i was winging as my shoulder won't let me prone at the moment) but it's applicable as i am 95 percent flagged on these downwinders now - so basically pumping and carving a lot.

had my first DW (winging) on the 680 with 180 tail after using the 880 10 or so times with the 140 and the day before the 180 (as it was lighter). Yeh it's a ripper little wing and as you'd expect much faster, turning etc etc.

But it rode identical to the 880 just smaller with less glide, pump and stall speed lower as you predict. Still decent lift, easy to get up and going and very stable rolling side to side when carving. No silly spikes of power, just all very sensible and controlled.

Was a little above my pay grade linking swells and digging it up and not of holes when i fell off the back of swell lines into no man's no swell. Normally with the 880 you can almost come to a stand still and just pump it at will to another swell line behind - no matter how far that takes.

You needed to really turn hard and with speed from top to bottom to generate enough glide to link some swell lines. So as i said above my pay grade but i did start dialling it in half way through.

So i can see why the decent DW paddlers can even use the 680 when conditions are right.

Just got to keep higher on the mast when pumping and keep your carving and speed up.

But yeh it packs a punch for a little foil at 81kg so if you are used to the 725 i can see the one smaller than the 680 would work.

To add i'm basically running the dart tail with a blue shim and when lighter the 180 with a red (because it gives significant better starting lift and more glide) and will just be changing from the 880 to the 680 front foil given those combinations. It's not that hard to work out.

some prone footage from JW on the 780.

?si=K6LAfqLijS8QkS6i

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Windoc said..

Camarillo said..
I have the HA1180 and the APF1675 for sup foiling in very small slow waves.
But I have not enough front foot because the tracks of my board are too far back.
I will get another board but would shimming the stab help?
Now I have to move my feet after take off, not ideal.

The gap between the HA1180 and the APF1675 is very big , I hope there will be a 1280 coming out soon??

Unless you are reverse shimming, adding shims won't help with getting more front foot pressure; the opposite will happen. Reverse shimming IMHO, will not be satisfactory though. I ride the 1080 at 90kg as my small wave SUPfoil (1675 if I'm really desperate!). I can't imagine needing a size larger than 1180 as the span would be too much for fun surfing performance. I think Aiden from Armstrong mentioned this in a video, saying the APF1675 or even the APF1880 provided the next steps up from the 1180 from a lift perspective if you really need it. Get a board that matches Armie foils and you won't be wishing for an intermediate size foil between 1180 and 1675.

It is an interesting topic. Do we need a foil between the APF1675 and the current top end 1180 or DWP930?
I do own the DWP930 and APF1675, and although there is overlap (which is crazy to say), as conditions are changing during my downwinds, I find myself thinking I would have been better with one of another option at some point.
So my answer is, YES it will be nice to have a version around the 1300 or 1400 and AR10.
I have not tested the 1180, so that is my next step.

Select to expand quote

Pacoo said..

Windoc said..

Camarillo said..
I have the HA1180 and the APF1675 for sup foiling in very small slow waves.
But I have not enough front foot because the tracks of my board are too far back.
I will get another board but would shimming the stab help?
Now I have to move my feet after take off, not ideal.

The gap between the HA1180 and the APF1675 is very big , I hope there will be a 1280 coming out soon??

Unless you are reverse shimming, adding shims won't help with getting more front foot pressure; the opposite will happen. Reverse shimming IMHO, will not be satisfactory though. I ride the 1080 at 90kg as my small wave SUPfoil (1675 if I'm really desperate!). I can't imagine needing a size larger than 1180 as the span would be too much for fun surfing performance. I think Aiden from Armstrong mentioned this in a video, saying the APF1675 or even the APF1880 provided the next steps up from the 1180 from a lift perspective if you really need it. Get a board that matches Armie foils and you won't be wishing for an intermediate size foil between 1180 and 1675.

It is an interesting topic. Do we need a foil between the APF1675 and the current top end 1180 or DWP930?
I do own the DWP930 and APF1675, and although there is overlap (which is crazy to say), as conditions are changing during my downwinds, I find myself thinking I would have been better with one of another option at some point.
So my answer is, YES it will be nice to have a version around the 1300 or 1400 and AR10.
I have not tested the 1180, so that is my next step.

I've read elsewhere that after the 1675 which crew have learnt on the next step is the 1180. Some have even gone the 1080. Let us know what you find.

Is Arnstrong going to come out with new sup foil boards wider than the downwind boards but narrower than the old sup foil boards in the near future?
I don't want to spent a lot of money on a downwind board and find out that is too unstable for me....

Select to expand quote

Camarillo said..

Windoc said..

Camarillo said..
I have the HA1180 and the APF1675 for sup foiling in very small slow waves.
But I have not enough front foot because the tracks of my board are too far back.
I will get another board but would shimming the stab help?
Now I have to move my feet after take off, not ideal.

The gap between the HA1180 and the APF1675 is very big , I hope there will be a 1280 coming out soon??

Unless you are reverse shimming, adding shims won't help with getting more front foot pressure; the opposite will happen. Reverse shimming IMHO, will not be satisfactory though. I ride the 1080 at 90kg as my small wave SUPfoil (1675 if I'm really desperate!). I can't imagine needing a size larger than 1180 as the span would be too much for fun surfing performance. I think Aiden from Armstrong mentioned this in a video, saying the APF1675 or even the APF1880 provided the next steps up from the 1180 from a lift perspective if you really need it. Get a board that matches Armie foils and you won't be wishing for an intermediate size foil between 1180 and 1675.

Yes I was thinking of reverse shimming
I need a board of at least 115 liter
Unfortunately Armstrong's downwind boards are too narrow for me and the sup's are too short and too wide.

What brand board should I get?

ONE egg perfect for sup surfing downwind and wing Ding.

Select to expand quote

Camarillo said..

Windoc said..

Camarillo said..
I have the HA1180 and the APF1675 for sup foiling in very small slow waves.
But I have not enough front foot because the tracks of my board are too far back.
I will get another board but would shimming the stab help?
Now I have to move my feet after take off, not ideal.

The gap between the HA1180 and the APF1675 is very big , I hope there will be a 1280 coming out soon??

Unless you are reverse shimming, adding shims won't help with getting more front foot pressure; the opposite will happen. Reverse shimming IMHO, will not be satisfactory though. I ride the 1080 at 90kg as my small wave SUPfoil (1675 if I'm really desperate!). I can't imagine needing a size larger than 1180 as the span would be too much for fun surfing performance. I think Aiden from Armstrong mentioned this in a video, saying the APF1675 or even the APF1880 provided the next steps up from the 1180 from a lift perspective if you really need it. Get a board that matches Armie foils and you won't be wishing for an intermediate size foil between 1180 and 1675.

Yes I was thinking of reverse shimming
I need a board of at least 115 liter
Unfortunately Armstrong's downwind boards are too narrow for me and the sup's are too short and too wide.

What brand board should I get?

ONE egg perfect for sup surfing downwind and wing Ding.

Select to expand quote

Camarillo said..
Is Arnstrong going to come out with new sup foil boards wider than the downwind boards but narrower than the old sup foil boards in the near future?
I don't want to spent a lot of money on a downwind board and find out that is too unstable for me....

You should try a ONE egg perfect for all disciplines and foil boxs suit Armstrong setups. In fact the new Egg boards have 13 inche boxes now extended from there previous 11 inches

Select to expand quote

tinka said..

Camarillo said..

Windoc said..

Camarillo said..
I have the HA1180 and the APF1675 for sup foiling in very small slow waves.
But I have not enough front foot because the tracks of my board are too far back.
I will get another board but would shimming the stab help?
Now I have to move my feet after take off, not ideal.

The gap between the HA1180 and the APF1675 is very big , I hope there will be a 1280 coming out soon??

Unless you are reverse shimming, adding shims won't help with getting more front foot pressure; the opposite will happen. Reverse shimming IMHO, will not be satisfactory though. I ride the 1080 at 90kg as my small wave SUPfoil (1675 if I'm really desperate!). I can't imagine needing a size larger than 1180 as the span would be too much for fun surfing performance. I think Aiden from Armstrong mentioned this in a video, saying the APF1675 or even the APF1880 provided the next steps up from the 1180 from a lift perspective if you really need it. Get a board that matches Armie foils and you won't be wishing for an intermediate size foil between 1180 and 1675.

Yes I was thinking of reverse shimming
I need a board of at least 115 liter
Unfortunately Armstrong's downwind boards are too narrow for me and the sup's are too short and too wide.

What brand board should I get?

ONE egg perfect for sup surfing downwind and wing Ding.

That is not the answer to my question!