www.instagram.com/reel/CiOB2pugEnb/?igshid=MWQ2ODkyMjM=

Awesome all they now need is some more useable DW front foils hey !

more goods:

I wonder if they are a good wing board as well, I like to have just one board that would do both.

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kobo said..
I wonder if they are a good wing board as well, I like to have just one board that would do both.

Long for a wing board.

Good video: www.instagram.com/reel/CiQ_vyLIAQW/?igshid=MWQ2ODkyMjM=

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hilly said..

kobo said..
I wonder if they are a good wing board as well, I like to have just one board that would do both.

Long for a wing board.

Agreed , but I'm thinking it might be better to get up in light wind as we don't have the same strength wind as you WA boys very often, actually haven't winged here for 12 months cause the weather has been crap for it.I prone mostly and get my hard turn fix there , but was looking for something that I could paddle back from out to sea if the wind drops ( which it does here often.) but also do some DW sup.

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kobo said..paddle back from out to sea if the wind drops ( which it does here often.) but also do some DW sup.

I use a 6 5 for that, it is exceptionally light. Works well.

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foilthegreats said..
Good video: www.instagram.com/reel/CiQ_vyLIAQW/?igshid=MWQ2ODkyMjM=

Oskar mentioned the board specs in this video are:

5'11" 19.25" 79L

Better look at that Axis DW board: www.instagram.com/reel/CiTuqWoAN6J/?igshid=ZDU1ZDhlY2E=

To my eyes the Axis has a very clear Kalama Barracuda & OceanSports Egg influence but the Armstrong seems to be a more conventional shape, narrower and longer maybe but only a bit of pinching at the tail.

They look like red candy ,i wanna! :)

Nice to see there should be a good selection of DW board choices next season.
The Axis looks really nice but why not just get a Kalama? Like the look of Axis outline, tho. Looking forward to see size options, dimensions, and weights.
Is that a steeper bevel on the rail of the Armstrong? Possibly for more stability with better release? Tail looks awfully boxy but nice that they didn't feel the need to do a pin tail.
So far leaning towards the Casey Pro, but be interesting to see what catches on when they all become available. Great to have so many options!

Interesting there's now new axis boards. We never even got the froth V2 boards. There was plenty of videos of people riding them but I don't think they have been available in shops in Australia. Now there's all new boards I wonder if these will ever be available?

(I don't actually care though as I would much rather a sunova or ONE anyway)

There's a few options popping up for down wind now but what I want to know is the R&D process from each brand? Have they come up with the concept them selves and made incremental changes over a period of time. Do the shapers actually ride these boards in a variety of conditions or are they just guessing from what's trending on instagram?

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pohaku said..
There's a few options popping up for down wind now but what I want to know is the R&D process from each brand? Have they come up with the concept them selves and made incremental changes over a period of time. Do the shapers actually ride these boards in a variety of conditions or are they just guessing from what's trending on instagram?

Yeah pretty sure Ben(ONE designer) and myself(ONE owner and Ben's little design helper) were two of the first few people to get into DW foiling well before many were even thinking about foiling or selling foils and boards. Stupid amount of $$$$$ spent on R&D and probably more hours spent on the water downwind foiling than 99% of people who do it. Not really sure why you need to know though?

Armie from Armstrong has been downwind foiling and downwind paddling for a long time and I remember him actually back in Hood river trying to DW foil before many others even though it was a serious thing so it's pretty fair they can develop a decent DW board. Myself and Armie have always seemed to butt heads for some reason but I give him credit for what he has done with Armstrong.

Marcus for Sunova learned with Ben and me so pretty sure he can qualify as someone who knows what he's talking about and does some crazy hours plus has great feedback from guys like James Casey.

For sure there are some guys shaping boards that might be a copy or inspired from what Dave has done on the barracuda but that **** is always going to happen so no need to get upset about it. Maybe they will improve the idea and the sport will get even easier so more people can get into it!!

I think you just need to settle down as your post comes across as though everyone is copying which many are not(how i read it anyway), yes Kalama does a great job but so do many others. Dave is a great guy and very forward thinking he also comes from a place that is amazing for being a guy like this as it gives more opportunity to push ideas as I am sure you just learned with your trip to Maui.


I never get upset if someone copies something we have as I know we have better constructions, lighter/ stronger boards and will give the best service we can.
Also I know whats better than a Hawaii-designed board and that's an Aussie designed board

Yeah it's pretty hard to copy something if its not even in your country , sure there are Kalama inspired designs popping up all over the world but there is no way you can copy something if it's not sitting in front of you , going off photos & videos at best just gives some idea that's it. Even if you wanted to buy one in Aus or NZ you can't , so what do you expect everyone to do ? I want one , I can't buy one so I'll TRY and make one. Dave's done an amazing job and it works . To me it's all about sharing the stoke and progressing the sport , getting the sh!ts over someone using design inspiration (not copying) is ridiculous. Come back to this thread in 3 months time and I guarantee the design will be refined again from worldwide input.

Funny how the worm turns. Last year was as small as possible, now long and narrow.
Reminds me of surfboard and windsurfer design in the 70s/80s/90s.

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pohaku said..
There's a few options popping up for down wind now but what I want to know is the R&D process from each brand? Have they come up with the concept them selves and made incremental changes over a period of time. Do the shapers actually ride these boards in a variety of conditions or are they just guessing from what's trending on instagram?

Remember the snide dig about Red Bull team riders in relation to Austin Kalama going to Naish..same $hit, different day.
Dave Kalama, Austin Kalama and Alex Aguera are true legends and gentlemen. You would never hear this backhanded insinuation from any of them. Dave is big enough and ugly enough to defend him self if he feels there is an issue.
Let's keep SeaBreeze out of the Internet gutter...just sayin'

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pohaku said..
There's a few options popping up for down wind now but what I want to know is the R&D process from each brand? Have they come up with the concept them selves and made incremental changes over a period of time. Do the shapers actually ride these boards in a variety of conditions or are they just guessing from what's trending on instagram?

Pretty sure if you are trying to increase your sales you are going exactly the wrong way about it. JB would have to be one of the best brand ambassadors out there and I don't even ride Naish.

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hilly said..
Funny how the worm turns. Last year was as small as possible, now long and narrow.
Reminds me of surfboard and windsurfer design in the 70s/80s/90s.

Yeah I'm not falling for this trend and I have been around long enough to understand why we went short and understand there is more to DW foiling than just a long board. I feel there maybe some comprise when learning so we will definitely see this trend go through some changes as more people progress in to the DW world.
I might do a DW vid talk on this subject one day soon but I forgot my camera for today and just about to crack out 20km right now so maybe next time.

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Piros said..
Yeah it's pretty hard to copy something if its not even in your country , sure there are Kalama inspired designs popping up all over the world but there is no way you can copy something if it's not sitting in front of you , going off photos & videos at best just gives some idea that's it. Even if you wanted to buy one in Aus or NZ you can't , so what do you expect everyone to do ? I want one , I can't buy one so I'll TRY and make one. Dave's done an amazing job and it works . To me it's all about sharing the stoke and progressing the sport , getting the sh!ts over someone using design inspiration (not copying) is ridiculous. Come back to this thread in 3 months time and I guarantee the design will be refined again from worldwide input.

Totally agree, it is the way a new "gear sport" grow. Looking and get inspired and try at what people do vs copying are not the same.

DK has been doing a lot of R&D for sure for many years but others too, but not everybody is famous like DK....

I thing the worst thing would be to claim a desing that is not your idea, that would be such a shame.

DW sup foiling is getting more and more popular which is great I think. What we know for sure right now (maybe it will change later) is that longer/narrow works best, now we will see what dims and shape will work better.
Everybody's talking about the pin tail, but remember a good board is not about one thing, so many others things to take into consideration, the rocker, the rails, the outline, the construction, etc...


I think i will depends on your location (fast moving swell vs short period slow swell, etc..), your level, your skills (sup background, etc...).
One thing fore sure is that the board made for DW/winging/surfing will not be the best at any but some people would want it anyway.
Specific boards is the futur, at least 2 boards for DW for those who are super into it, etc... It will cost some money but if you want to perform this will be the way.

for sure Jacko, not once did I imply that One & Sunova haven't done R&D, you guys have spent more time downwind then I ever will, it was just a simple question based one a conversation of R&D hours Dave has done. In my question I didn't mention any brands at all. It was just a simple question that you've answered in detail. As for the inspired boards it's not me getting upset it's more of a respect thing, at least give credit for someone who spent so much time to perfect. Kai Lenny in his post gave the credit where it's due. My trip to Maui was amazing, very humbled to have spent the time there with the innovators of the sport, i learned way more than I ever thought I would and it's amazing to be involved & have opportunity to spend more time there.

Piros, you can you just have to wait until they arrive. Dave is constantly improving on his designs and that's why the barracuda has not yet been released nor have the final dimensions. You would hate to buy a board then a new one come out 6 months after right?

Foilalot, my question was not a dig at anyone but it seems iv hit a nerve? It was a honest question ti give insight as to what other brands do? I had a lengthy conversation with DK about all this stuff and very simply just asked a question?

Kobo, increase my sales? No just simply asking a question. People will ride what they choose to ride and I respect & support them on their decision.

My comment above was honestly just a question for my own education. I'm sorry if iv struck a nerve? See you on the water soon

Interesting topic Pohaku raises. As a consumer and participant in a sport that is still in its infancy stage I certainly would like to hope that if I am paying 2.3 -3k for a board in such a specialised discipline as DW that i was getting a board that was tried and tested by the best DW R&D team and not copied by a shaper that does not actually DW. As Frenchfoiler pointed out there is more than length width and volume to asses a boards usability, capability and suitability.
Dave Kalama is certainly a pioneer and innovator that has made the sport of DW prone or with a paddle accessible to people who are not elite paddlers. At this point i dont see any other design than the long and narrow board that allows 60- 65 year men and women paddle up in ocean conditions with the same ease as this design. I disagree that this is a trend, this is innovation that will enable growth and health of the sport long term.
I understand Piros view of sharing the stoke, that could be viewed as a selfish point of view from a participant of the sport, its however possibly not shared by industry people who rely on return on investment of R&D to build their brands and put food on the table for their family's. Short cuts by people who have not put in the investment that are attempting to cash in on design innovation by others without giving credit where credit is due seems very short sighted in a small industry.

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pohaku said..
for sure Jacko, not once did I imply that One & Sunova haven't done R&D, you guys have spent more time downwind then I ever will, it was just a simple question based one a conversation of R&D hours Dave has done. In my question I didn't mention any brands at all. It was just a simple question that you've answered in detail. As for the inspired boards it's not me getting upset it's more of a respect thing, at least give credit for someone who spent so much time to perfect. Kai Lenny in his post gave the credit where it's due. My trip to Maui was amazing, very humbled to have spent the time there with the innovators of the sport, i learned way more than I ever thought I would and it's amazing to be involved & have opportunity to spend more time there.

Piros, you can you just have to wait until they arrive. Dave is constantly improving on his designs and that's why the barracuda has not yet been released nor have the final dimensions. You would hate to buy a board then a new one come out 6 months after right?

Foilalot, my question was not a dig at anyone but it seems iv hit a nerve? It was a honest question ti give insight as to what other brands do? I had a lengthy conversation with DK about all this stuff and very simply just asked a question?

Kobo, increase my sales? No just simply asking a question. People will ride what they choose to ride and I respect & support them on their decision.

My comment above was honestly just a question for my own education. I'm sorry if iv struck a nerve? See you on the water soon

R&D is expensive, I know it, I make boards, only customs (small brand) but I put the money because I love it, actually the main goal is for me to have the best board I can get. I have tested way more DW boards than wing or surf foil because I love so much DW and the board makes such a difference to perform.

Seems to me the innovation and maybe the best true (vs fake R&D bull**** marketing) R&D come from passionate people, unfortunatly not always by big brands with lots of resources... Maybe it will change because big brands see a market.

The Axis DW prototype board certainly looks "Kalama" inspired. But As Oscar Wilde once said "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness." I'm sure Adrian has shaped a few boards in his years to perhaps put his own twist on the pintail skinny concept. I'm personally still favouring the mid lengths somewhere 6' to 7'. Fits in the car, doubles as a ding board. Here's one of the best foiling vids to come out of Maui this summer in my opinion. Julian (Perth local boy) ripping up his 6 footer and showing those Hawaiian's long boards how it's done. If summer could hurry up and arrive in West Oz we could get out there test these all new board concepts out. I'm just keen to see more and more stoked people on the water actually having success at open ocean foiling.

www.instagram.com/reel/CgzbbLpMnwXWQulVn2BsO-2YixG-BSodb-Dn_g0/?igshid=MmIxOGMzMTU=

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frenchfoiler said..

pohaku said..
for sure Jacko, not once did I imply that One & Sunova haven't done R&D, you guys have spent more time downwind then I ever will, it was just a simple question based one a conversation of R&D hours Dave has done. In my question I didn't mention any brands at all. It was just a simple question that you've answered in detail. As for the inspired boards it's not me getting upset it's more of a respect thing, at least give credit for someone who spent so much time to perfect. Kai Lenny in his post gave the credit where it's due. My trip to Maui was amazing, very humbled to have spent the time there with the innovators of the sport, i learned way more than I ever thought I would and it's amazing to be involved & have opportunity to spend more time there.

Piros, you can you just have to wait until they arrive. Dave is constantly improving on his designs and that's why the barracuda has not yet been released nor have the final dimensions. You would hate to buy a board then a new one come out 6 months after right?

Foilalot, my question was not a dig at anyone but it seems iv hit a nerve? It was a honest question ti give insight as to what other brands do? I had a lengthy conversation with DK about all this stuff and very simply just asked a question?

Kobo, increase my sales? No just simply asking a question. People will ride what they choose to ride and I respect & support them on their decision.

My comment above was honestly just a question for my own education. I'm sorry if iv struck a nerve? See you on the water soon

R&D is expensive, I know it, I make boards, only customs (small brand) but I put the money because I love it, actually the main goal is for me to have the best board I can get. I have tested way more DW boards than wing or surf foil because I love so much DW and the board makes such a difference to perform.

Seems to me the innovation and maybe the best true (vs fake R&D bull**** marketing) R&D come from passionate people, unfortunatly not always by big brands with lots of resources... Maybe it will change because big brands see a market.

Agree. DK has alot in common with us garage-shapers. We try stuff that will be ugly/funny/old/new/weak/crazy/cross-disciplinary ect. And most importantly - we SHARE it (on forums like this). Opposite e.g. KT that makes patents (and they are not even a "big" brand). Brands who say they put so and so many $$ into R&D is pure bull****. It doesnt depend on $$. It depends on showing the world what youre up to and then get all the worlds garage-hackers and foilers to help improve it. Thats why DK is so respected as board-builder. Its an bottom-up process

Hi Danish,

I think it's a stretch to say "DK has alot in common with us garage-shapers."
Kalama is a professional and you are a hobbyist. You both build boards, you do it for yourself and Kalama for the broader foiling community. I would imagine his R&D process looks a lot different to yours. In any sport production of equipment that needs to work as intended and meet a durability standard requires R&D. R&D costs money in materials and staffing costs at a minimum.

This is a problem any time a game-changing breakthrough in technology happens. Everyone else is almost forced to copy the concept to stay relevant.
A standpoint I share with a lot of other local shapers is that in order to sell something and not rip it off we have to innovate further on his concept. More people trying things means the boards get even better which is good for the sport and consumer in the end. It's been exciting seeing other shapers' takes on his idea, some successful and some not so much. He has set a very high bar to overcome.
Massive respect to Dave for opening the door and refining a concept to be years ahead of anyone else. I hope he can get the respect and success he deserves.

Pohaku's comments weren't well received because they come from someone in the industry.

As a consumer both axis and Armstrong could be accused of using their customers to do the r&d. Products that did not meet the hype at times with obvious short comings that have the purchaser wondering if much testing was done at all.

one and sunova have little to fear as they are long term participants in this market with very obviously well tested products that have resulted in being trusted brands.

too much money spent by consumers on products that were rushed to market because of the rapid market growth and perceived potential for profit from early market share. Nothing to do with sharing the stoke.

time is judging some of these brands harshly. It's great to see some honest opinions on here as what is not said is what annoys me.

I'll just leave this here:
www.instagram.com/reel/Ciivpogh9by/?igshid=MmIxOGMzMTU=

Wow, looks sweet. Box is way forward