Our North winds on the gold coast make life a little tougher for downwinding as the angle is never really perfect unless we drive 40 mins to make the angle better so thought we would start using the wing a ding to power ding out to sea for 4km or so and then do the pack up and foil home.
All works really well but if you do try this to keep in mind the wind wing gets quite heavy when all wet and also the wet bag so this makes getting up on the foil just that bit harder and also makes foiling a bit tricker with a bag flying around. Good tips are to find a bag that does not soak up water and also one that you can strap on super tight, oh also dont fill the wing up with water when you deflate it and roll it up as that really sucks

That's pretty cool but why didn't just wingding straight downwind , would have been so much easier than carrying a wet wing on your back.

Select to expand quote

Piros said..
That's pretty cool but why didn't just wingding straight downwind , would have been so much easier than carrying a wet wing on your back.

Because thats not downwinding

Select to expand quote

Piros said..
That's pretty cool but why didn't just wingding straight downwind , would have been so much easier than carrying a wet wing on your back.

Because the freedom of only having the paddle in your hands is so much better than holding a ding in your hands, even with the extra weight of the back pack the feel of just SUP foiling down wind kills it for me over holding the sail.

For those who might struggle a bit with downwind foiling using only the paddle i can see the joy of the ding but having the freedom of only a paddle wins it for me and the ding comes no where close to give me the same freedom.

Select to expand quote

Piros said..
That's pretty cool but why didn't just wingding straight downwind , would have been so much easier than carrying a wet wing on your back.

As someone who does both, but probably Wings more now than just Foil alone, DW foiling is the ultimate. There is something about it that is just top of the chart.

BUT!

If the wind is not right, or the angle is off, it's a bit light, you're feeling lazy the Wing makes every downwinder fun. But on the right day when you're on, DW'ing just on foil is off the chart fun AAA+, even in a wet heap on your back.

Winging out to the wind line is epic, or doing an upwind to then DW.

I need to stop being so lazy and pack down more often.

Can't wait to DW again, come on wind!!!!

Ride safe,

JB

Select to expand quote

paul.j said..

Piros said..
That's pretty cool but why didn't just wingding straight downwind , would have been so much easier than carrying a wet wing on your back.

Because the freedom of only having the paddle in your hands is so much better than holding a ding in your hands, even with the extra weight of the back pack the feel of just SUP foiling down wind kills it for me over holding the sail.

For those who might struggle a bit with downwind foiling using only the paddle i can see the joy of the ding but having the freedom of only a paddle wins it for me and the ding comes no where close to give me the same freedom.

LOL, shoulda read you response first .

Agreed, In good conditions;
#1. DW Foil and board only
#2. DW with Wing

In not so good conditions;
#1 DW with Wing.
#2 Go surfing or just winging in the bay or lake.

JB

This actually opens up a market opportunity for someone to come with a small gas canister to quickly inflate a wing should you need to use the wing to go back up again

Just a few other small things on doing this that will make life easier.

I would want a wing without the window, I never use it and its so easy to just lift it up over your head if you want to see whats coming plus it just packs down so much easier without it. I know there have been 100 topics on window or no window but for using the wing for this purpose i would choose without.

Next is get the lightest wing you can as keeping it as light as possible will help.

Having a release valve on the strut would be nice as well as pushing the air out of the one pump kinda sucks.

Ride a board with a bit more volume than normal as the weight of the wing does add up, my normal board i am riding at the moment is 92L and this is perfect but i could have used 100L or a touch more once i put the back pack on.

All these toys have their place and combining them is part of the fun.

I wonder if you could tow the inflated wing drifting along behind you from a waist leash, or a couple of short lines to your backpack shoulder straps? Maybe a micro-bridle to stop it twisting and flopping around.

Select to expand quote

paul.j said..
Just a few other small things on doing this that will make life easier.

I would want a wing without the window, I never use it and its so easy to just lift it up over your head if you want to see whats coming plus it just packs down so much easier without it. I know there have been 100 topics on window or no window but for using the wing for this purpose i would choose without.

Next is get the lightest wing you can as keeping it as light as possible will help.

Having a release valve on the strut would be nice as well as pushing the air out of the one pump kinda sucks.

Ride a board with a bit more volume than normal as the weight of the wing does add up, my normal board i am riding at the moment is 92L and this is perfect but i could have used 100L or a touch more once i put the back pack on.

All these toys have their place and combining them is part of the fun.

Jako, the big question is what foil are you using these days ??

Big question! Ha ha

I'd be curious to see races based on this practice!
A caddy would collect wings at the end of the up-wind run.
Would require verstatile skills from the riders and challenge foil designers as well.

Select to expand quote

Pierre74 said..
I'd be curious to see races based on this practice!
A caddy would collect wings at the end of the up-wind run.
Would require verstatile skills from the riders and challenge foil designers as well.

This is an interesting thought. Upwind Downwind racing with the option to ditch the wing at the upwind mark (if you have a caddy ready).

I like it.

Ride safe,

JB

Select to expand quote

paul.j said..
Just a few other small things on doing this that will make life easier.

I would want a wing without the window, I never use it and its so easy to just lift it up over your head if you want to see whats coming plus it just packs down so much easier without it. I know there have been 100 topics on window or no window but for using the wing for this purpose i would choose without.

Next is get the lightest wing you can as keeping it as light as possible will help.

Having a release valve on the strut would be nice as well as pushing the air out of the one pump kinda sucks.

Ride a board with a bit more volume than normal as the weight of the wing does add up, my normal board i am riding at the moment is 92L and this is perfect but i could have used 100L or a touch more once i put the back pack on.

All these toys have their place and combining them is part of the fun.

Thought it may be a good time to point out that there is still available some Naish MKi Wing-Surfer. 4m, and pack down smaller than any other wing out there, no window, at under 2.2kg they are the lightest out there also, built strong and has a massive wind range. Available brand new for $999 includes bag, pump and leash - www.windgenuity.com.au/shop/2020-wingsurfer/

JB

Question for Jako and JB, I'm just learning to DW atm with a wing , but curious how much harder it is to do with just the paddle.Are there any or many guys in late 50s and older doing it? I can pump reasonable, but wondering how much It is power/ technique to get up on a foil with just the paddle.

Select to expand quote

kobo said..
Question for Jako and JB, I'm just learning to DW atm with a wing , but curious how much harder it is to do with just the paddle.Are there any or many guys in late 50s and older doing it? I can pump reasonable, but wondering how much It is power/ technique to get up on a foil with just the paddle.

Hey Kobo,

They wing is an excellent way to get into DW'ing. But going with just the paddle is definitely a bigger learning curve. You have to be prepared for your first half dozen journey's to be long and hard work. Age is just a number, but yes, you need to be reasonably fit and ideally I say to people you should be able to pump out and connect at least 2 waves before embarking on a DW journey. I used to practice on a short 1km leg at my local. A lot walking, but good bumps and lowers the risk a lot when you're only going a short distance. Also very important to be able to get up easily on the foil. I say when you surf foil to you paddle up onto the foil to catch the wave or do you catch the wave to get up onto the foil? Paddling up onto the foil (with chop and bump assist) is essential to getting going. If you're still needing loads of wave assist or a breaking wave, then this should be your practice prior to taking on a full DW'er.

It is the most fun you'll ever have, but it does take some learning. But stick at it, it is worth it!

Ride safe,

JB

Select to expand quote

kobo said..
Question for Jako and JB, I'm just learning to DW atm with a wing , but curious how much harder it is to do with just the paddle.Are there any or many guys in late 50s and older doing it? I can pump reasonable, but wondering how much It is power/ technique to get up on a foil with just the paddle.

Yeah JB has covered most of it but a few little extra bits just to help a bit more.

Use the wind wing to help learn to ride the bumps as much as you can as this will help you learn what is going on and give a very good base understanding with how to link the bumps and what is doable on a foil. If you crash the wind wing just makes getting going so much easier to learn at the start.

Use a big wing to start with as you will really need the extra float between the bumps, the better you get the smaller wing you can use as you learn how to use the glide but at the start the extra float can just help save you when you run into a trough and loose the foil power.

Start with short runs, no more than 5km as any more than this you will be to tired and end up just paddling.

Work on your timing, timing is the key to getting up easy. If you get your timing right you can pop up in just a few strokes yet if you get it wrong you can grind yourself into the ground and still not get lift off.

Make sure you have a board that you are stable on when in the bumps. If you are on something you are tippy on you just will stuggle to get good power strokes in and this leads to bad timing so be stable!!

Pick your days as some days are much easier than others. Wind chop with not much ocean swell is the best and windier the better. Forget trying to learn in big swell with wind as the swells move so quick it makes life way harder. Once you get better the bigger swells can be super fast on the smaller wings but at the start forget bigger swell days.

Yes it is harder to paddle downwind foil in some ways but if you stick with it it will go from something hard to something that can be super easy and for me is the most fun I can have on a foil.

Having the right gear is super important as well!!

Jacko

Wow Awesome responses guys thank you both ! you've answered all the questions I had in my mind, I can most often pump out and link 2 waves, the best Ive managed is 4, but that's on a prone board ,I find pumping the SUP not as easy,usually running out of gas is the main factor but I'm working on it and improving all the time.Really helpful advice , looks easy watching your videos and so much fun !
Cheers Kobo.

I'm 55yo and have been attempting foil with paddle downwinders for two-three years and I have yet to complete our 7-8km course on foil only. Best was only 3 touchdowns with up to 10-15min between touchdowns - worst was sum total of 10-20m on foil.....

It's hard and requires a very good level of fitness, technique and most definitely the right gear, on the right day.

Learning to pump and paddle simultaneously is an essential technique which you can practice in the surf as well. If conditions are right (in our case min 20-30kn) then getting up on foil is relatively easy for me, albeit takes full throttle effort. If there is less wind then I can be stuck for ages before I get the right bump.

Staying up becomes the next challenge and is a mix of reading the bumps, using your ride-height as a throttle to stay with bumps (up = more speed) and turning off the bump while you still have speed to connect the one behind - and if you do run out of runway you need to be able to pump/paddle your way to the next downhiller. This takes hours of practice and is exhausting. Once you start getting in excess of 10min foil time your gear needs to be set up just right or you will get excessive leg-burn. Most of my 10min+ foil escapades have come to an end with legs seizing up due to bad conditioning and too much backfoot pressure in set up.

Downwinding on the wing initially removes a lot of these subtleties as you will naturally be grabbing rear handle everytime you start losing speed (AKA downwind yachting). As you get better at winging you will be able to proximate the feeling of doing it with the paddle using the techniques described above whilst only holding LE handle. But as much as the wing fully depowers, it's still sort of a clumsy appendage.

My goal on wing is to do entire dwd course holding only the LE handle - I'm no-where near that yet, but then it will feel closer to doing it with a paddle. Most guys here, have given up on learning to do it with a paddle, and are happy to just do it with the wing. I'm giving it one more season to see if I can crack the paddle - one can always fall back to the wing...

Thanks PeterP, That's some great insights ,and a good perspective of what to expect on the DW journey.
In the beginning I thought I'd just be happy to prone surf foil and just paddle back out, but learning to pump and connect waves has opened another door which I wasn't anticipating, so now I'm curious ,maybe I can get to the 'holy grail. (DW with paddle) Great excuse to get fit and have fun trying anyhow.
Great feedback thanks everyone.

Hey All ,
Just been out first ocean session in 20 kns DW with wing , going across the swells with the wing in one hand was great as it had airflow over it and it just sat there and I could surf the swell ,but going directly DW was driving me crazy as there was nowhere good to hold it , I tried sitting above my head so the tips wouldn't hit the water but it would twist and wrap around my head then I couldn't see where I was going , loose balance and crash.
Is there something I'm missing here or is this just the downside of wings. Feedback appreciated

Select to expand quote

kobo said..
Hey All ,
Just been out first ocean session in 20 kns DW with wing , going across the swells with the wing in one hand was great as it had airflow over it and it just sat there and I could surf the swell ,but going directly DW was driving me crazy as there was nowhere good to hold it , I tried sitting above my head so the tips wouldn't hit the water but it would twist and wrap around my head then I couldn't see where I was going , loose balance and crash.
Is there something I'm missing here or is this just the downside of wings. Feedback appreciated

You need more wind or you need to use the apparent wind that you are generating yourself + when too light you will have to angle away from straight downwind when you loose flow over wing.

Ok that makes sense thanks PeterP , it was about 15-20 kns and going across the waves to the right was the problem.I could tell I was travelling the same speed as the wind as it was nice and quiet, but when there was no breeze to hold it up it was very unbalancing.The journey begins and continues !