Hi guys,

I am experiencing some weird stuff with my new Unit 5m. Basically, air leaks out of the valve when I screw the cap off. Leaks stops when the cap is completely removed. Additionally, I have notices that air leaks quite a lot as I pumping air into the wing. Granted I do not have rubber gaskets on my pump hose attachment, yet I can pump my other Duotone kites just fine with minimal leak with it, and valves appear to be identical.

I though first the cap could catch the twisting locking mechanism and open the valve at I screw it. So I switched the caps between my 2019 Neo kite and 2020 Unit wing: still leak from the Unit when I take the Neo cap off. No leak on Neo after I take the Unit cap off. So the problem is definitely coming from the valve.

Any idea what is going on?

Thanks.

have you read the instructions,about turning the outer blue ring

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Fitzsup said..
have you read the instructions,about turning the outer blue ring

Been using these valves for a while on my duotone kites with no issues. I always double check that the ring is in full closed position after removing the hose and before closing the cap.

I didn't and had the same problem,fixed it by last resort "read the instructions "

Misread your first message: OUTER ring! Are you inferring that tightening the outer ring solved your issue? I checked mine using the red tool provided and it is pretty tight. I would not expect having to mess around with it on a new product, unless I have to take the bladder out.

Just uploaded a video on youtube to show what i am experiencing

I've heard mine hiss a few times. Not sure it does it all the time. I don't see that as a problem because I'm deflating when I do that.

Duotone says it's not a 100% seal without the cap.

Check about 7:15 in this video by the Duotone US rep.

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DWF said..
I've heard mine hiss a few times. Not sure it does it all the time. I don't see that as a problem because I'm deflating when I do that.

Duotone says it's not a 100% seal without the cap.

Check about 7:15 in this video by the Duotone US rep.

Thanks for sharing this video. I agree that the valve itself may not be 100% air tight, thus the need for the cap. The problem I have is that the cap has an adverse effect on the valve. If for any reasons, the cap were to un-screw a little during riding, air would leak out. Granted this is unlikely, but I am looking at this from an design/engineering perspective: Cap + valve should have cumulative benefit on safety, and it is clearly not the case here.

EDIT: the explanation below about the gasket interacting with blue ring is not accurate, as they do not get in contact. Upon further inspection it sound like it is the valve (baffle) itself that pop back into place as I remove the cap. Still not sure why this happens.

I think the design of this valve is not optimized, as the direction (anti clock-wise) in which you have to turn the blue ring to empty air out is the same as the direction you screw the cap on. Eventually, as you tighten the cap, the rubber gasket contacts the blue ring and turns it ever so slightly. That would also explain in my video why the leak stops eventually when I unscrew the cap, as turning the cap clockwise closes the blue ring previously open in the last step.

If I am correct, a simple way to fix this in future version of the airport valve would be to have the blue ring turn clockwise for air dumping instead of anti-clockwise.

It's almost certainly the O-ring inside the cap, have seen this quite a few times and it's nearly always that the O-ring has either fallen out or has been damaged/malformed.

Very weird if swapping the caps over didn't fix it, but definitely double check those O-rings, your video there looks exactly like what we've seen a few times and that O-ring has always been the fix. Not sure if the Unit has a spare one in the bag but your Neo probably does.

If that doesn't fix it, do a close comparison between the one on your kite and the one on your wing. It is possible for that centre rotating part in the valve to become dislodged and maybe it's got something else wrong, but definitely try swapping the O-rings around before messing with too much else.

Thanks for the feedback. Below is a side by side comparison of the 2019 Neo and 2021 Unit valves. I measured the height of the blue tabs and they are both about the same, 2.4-2.6mm tall. The O-ring on the Unit looks fine, and as you noticed using the Neo cap did not help.

The only difference I can tell is that the Unit blue ring is slightly off centered.

Just had a friend tell me his Echo valve spins 360 degrees. The center part with the two tabs. His valve is bad.

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DWF said..
Just had a friend tell me his Echo valve spins 360 degrees. The center part with the two tabs. His valve is bad.

Oh boy.

A guy on a FB group told me that his valve on 2020 Rebel kite also psff out. So far all owner of Duotone wings have reported the same. None of my 2019 kite do that. Maybe there was a change in manufacturing or supplier after 2019?

I have contacted Duotone to learn more about what is going on. Will keep everyone posted.

I have Duotone Echo 4m as well as the 2020 V1 5m. The 5m had air slowly leaking from Valve - I just gently used a cotton bud to remove anything that might have caused it and it stopped leaking. Have repaired a pinhole in bladder successfully and while bladder was out was able to see the valve setup - very simple, not much likely to go wrong other than bad luck with sand getting stuck.

I wouldn't recommend pulling bladder out unless you need to - a little stressful putting it back straight - good light helped with seam alignment.

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ibid said..
I have Duotone Echo 4m as well as the 2020 V1 5m. The 5m had air slowly leaking from Valve - I just gently used a cotton bud to remove anything that might have caused it and it stopped leaking. Have repaired a pinhole in bladder successfully and while bladder was out was able to see the valve setup - very simple, not much likely to go wrong other than bad luck with sand getting stuck.

I wouldn't recommend pulling bladder out unless you need to - a little stressful putting it back straight - good light helped with seam alignment.

Do you mean that you cleaned the inside of the valve, at the interface between the flap and the bladder?

I did see some white powder flying out of the valve the first time I vented it at home. I assume this was just talc powder used at the factory to ease the bladder insertion process.

Yes stuck cotton bud in and moved it in circle around the middle to gently to push anything out - went from air escaping to sealed almost instantly

got the idea after looking at a diy repair of same valve in an older kitethere is a flap that opens when you realease and if it cannot close then you have a leak

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DWF said..
Just had a friend tell me his Echo valve spins 360 degrees. The center part with the two tabs. His valve is bad.

This is generally from over-rotating the valve, it's quite a common issue if people aren't familiar with using the valve or they let someone who hasn't used it before borrow their gear etc.

Not necessarily what happened in this case, but I've seen it on kites quite a few times, we always give people a quick "how to" on using the valve when they buy one to prevent it. Early on when the valve first came out we saw it a lot but as people got used to it I haven't seen it happen much anymore.

There's a little track/channel that it locates in on the bottom and if it's over-rotated with a bit of force it jumps out of this and is then free to rotate 360 degrees, doesn't lock off etc. You can sometimes get it to relocate properly with a bit of fiddling, but often you just need to replace the valve as it becomes much easier for it to pop out of location again after it's happened once.

We haven't got any Units in, just Echos, no valve issues on them so far but interesting to hear others are having issues, will keep an eye out for it for sure.

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Mokuleia said..
The only difference I can tell is that the Unit blue ring is slightly off centered.

Does it also rotate too far when you go to push it around? Or is it "wobbly" in there if you give it a bit of a wiggle compared to the Neo? It may be similar to what DWF mentioned, that centre blue part can be detached or slip out of location and this tends to make it leak slowly.

Usually this is just due to it being pushed out of location a little too forcefully, but it's always possible there's a bad batch of them floating around.

Sometimes you can get a bit of sand or debris in there too which can cause an issue, so might be worth holding upside down and giving it a good blow/tap out.

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Adventure Sports Noosa said..

Does it also rotate too far when you go to push it around? Or is it "wobbly" in there if you give it a bit of a wiggle compared to the Neo? It may be similar to what DWF mentioned, that centre blue part can be detached or slip out of location and this tends to make it leak slowly.

As far as I can tell, the blue ring rotates and feels like the one on my two Neos.
Also, wing holds air just fine over night without the cap, so I think the flap is doing its job.

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Mokuleia said..

DWF said..
Just had a friend tell me his Echo valve spins 360 degrees. The center part with the two tabs. His valve is bad.

Oh boy.

A guy on a FB group told me that his valve on 2020 Rebel kite also psff out. So far all owner of Duotone wings have reported the same. None of my 2019 kite do that. Maybe there was a change in manufacturing or supplier after 2019?

I have contacted Duotone to learn more about what is going on. Will keep everyone posted.

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Mokuleia said..

DWF said..
Just had a friend tell me his Echo valve spins 360 degrees. The center part with the two tabs. His valve is bad.

Oh boy.

A guy on a FB group told me that his valve on 2020 Rebel kite also psff out. So far all owner of Duotone wings have reported the same. None of my 2019 kite do that. Maybe there was a change in manufacturing or supplier after 2019?

I have contacted Duotone to learn more about what is going on. Will keep everyone posted.

I had similar problem on my Naish valve cpl years ago,yes bit different valve apples oranges,but found that The cap has to be snug or it would leak supposed to be one way valves but seems they can leak a tad sometimes without cap properly closed snug.With all the issues of traveling now especially to China think a lot of the usual quality control point men for a lot of these kite/wing companies can't get over there these days like usual and they are just sending the goods over with a bit less QC then usual been quite a few issues on some of the newer wings I've seen in my local zone will all the stuff going on these days quality is sure to lull out for while would imagine

THIS IS A PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT: THE MYSTERY HAS BEEN SOLVED!!!

Upon further inspection I found that part of an O-ring located UNDER the inner blue ring, and usually hidden, came out and is stuck on the outside. I tried to put it back in place, but found that it is nearly impossible. What is problematic is that the rotating blue ring slices the O-ring each time I turn it. I have no other choices but to have the valve replaced on that brand new product

This also explains why the blue ring is off-centered, as the part of the O-ring that popped out is pushing it out of alignment. So play close attention to that blue ring if you have leak issues.

Thanks to all for your inputs. Resolving this air leak was very instructive!

CASE CLOSED (at least the technical part...)

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Mokuleia said..
I have no other choices but to have the valve replaced on that brand new product

I hope not out of your own pocket though!
To me this is clearly a defect from the manufacturer.

3rd session with my Unit 5m today. I got the wing inflated, but when I took the pump off, the air gushed out, the valve was in the closed position. After this, the pump wouldn't connect properly and the seal wouldn't close. Took it back to the shop where I bought it, they couldn't get the valve to seal either. They were very helpful, but one of the guys in the shop also said he had the same issue. I wonder if this isn't something more common with the 2021 wings and there's an issue with them.

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Mokuleia said..

DWF said..
Just had a friend tell me his Echo valve spins 360 degrees. The center part with the two tabs. His valve is bad.

Oh boy.

A guy on a FB group told me that his valve on 2020 Rebel kite also psff out. So far all owner of Duotone wings have reported the same. None of my 2019 kite do that. Maybe there was a change in manufacturing or supplier after 2019?

I have contacted Duotone to learn more about what is going on. Will keep everyone posted.

Anything back from Duotone? My valve packed up after 2 uses. Guy in the store said he had same problem. Seems like the 2021 valves might be defective.

same, after 5 uses. Duotone 4m2. Valve faulty

I've used mine LOTS and never had an issue. ??

I had to have my valve replaced after 2 sessions. The guy in the shop (and experienced kite surfer who has sailed with North/Duotone for years) said the same thing has happened to him.

Googled the problem, and there seems to be many others who've had troubles with the Unit valve.

Just putting it out there, but this seems to have happened far too often to be user error.

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NorthernKitesAUS said..

Mokuleia said..
I have no other choices but to have the valve replaced on that brand new product

I hope not out of your own pocket though!
To me this is clearly a defect from the manufacturer.

You'd think so. I had to pay for mine.

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Sputnik11 said..
I had to have my valve replaced after 2 sessions. The guy in the shop (and experienced kite surfer who has sailed with North/Duotone for years) said the same thing has happened to him.

Googled the problem, and there seems to be many others who've had troubles with the Unit valve.

Just putting it out there, but this seems to have happened far too often to be user error.

Or .... there are a lot out there and bad news, experiences travel. Man we've had literally 50 plus duotone kites (with same valve really) and 10 wings so far between the crew I ride with and not one issue. I'm not denying you and others crappy experience with the valve but to say there is an inherent problem with so many units (pardon the pun) being sold and used worldwide... just saying.

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eppo said..

Sputnik11 said..
I had to have my valve replaced after 2 sessions. The guy in the shop (and experienced kite surfer who has sailed with North/Duotone for years) said the same thing has happened to him.

Googled the problem, and there seems to be many others who've had troubles with the Unit valve.

Just putting it out there, but this seems to have happened far too often to be user error.

Or .... there are a lot out there and bad news, experiences travel. Man we've had literally 50 plus duotone kites (with same valve really) and 10 wings so far between the crew I ride with and not one issue. I'm not denying you and others crappy experience with the valve but to say there is an inherent problem with so many units (pardon the pun) being sold and used worldwide... just saying.

Fair enough. Just repeating what I heard in store.