Dont understand why they would be at sea given the forecasts we have had.
www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/major-rescue-operation-for-stricken-yacht-off-nsw-coast-20240902-p5k7as.html

Probably something about overcoming adversity to build resilience

19 metres.
A big boy!
Only two aboard.

? A Delivery to Schedule ?

Due East of Shoalhaven Bight 185 km. Windiest day of the year with the added bonus of extra wind channelled down the Shoalhaven. Fortunately directly offshore from the Navy air station NAS Nowra but it seems too windy for the navy helicopters to lift them off yesterday afternoon. Other units on their way.

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Yara said..
Dont understand why they would be at sea given the forecasts we have had.
www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/major-rescue-operation-for-stricken-yacht-off-nsw-coast-20240902-p5k7as.html

Because (leaving apart crew numbers, which may not be relevant) a Volvo 60 should be able to take such conditions in its stride.

If a boat can't go to sea with such a forecast then maybe it shouldn't ever go to sea. After all, one may cop such conditions even when the forecast is for milder winds. If one continually dodges bad weather then how does one ever learn how to handle it?

The bottom line is that a boat designed for racing around the world can easily handle such conditions, just as your boat can easily handle a 10 knot sea breeze on the harbour but could still sometimes suffer a mishap. Does the fact that your boat could suffer a mishape in 10 knot breeze mean that you should never go out unless the forecast is for 5 knots or less?

My concern with such incidents is that often people who SHOULD be able to handle such conditions now hit the EPIRB and put others at risk. That may not be the case here, but back in the day we would lose masts and rudders in bad conditions offshore and never think about calling for assistance. This Mayday may have been justified but there appear to be some that are not.

All those venturing offshore should be equipped personally and boat-wise to handle 5m seas and 40+ knots of wind (or worse), as once you leave the coast, it may happen and there isn't an anchorage to take refuge in.

That is not to say this boat and crew were not so equipped.

The problem in this case is reported as "mechanical difficulties", which suggests it isn't simply a problem of sailing in heavy weather. Also that it is taking on water.

130NM offshore is well out of range of VHF for ship to shore. That they activated the EPIRB suggests they didn't have any other long range communications capability - ie HF or sat phone - which any boat heading offshore should have. But it may be that they do, and it is just not mentioned in the reporting, or perhaps their electrics have failed.

Curious as to why so far offshore. I believe she's a Qld based boat. Perhaps it is where they ended up while trying to deal with whatever failed, before they activated the EPIRB, having assessed they'd run out of options. Nothing wrong with short handed sailing, but on a 60 footer just 2 onboard suggests it was a skeleton crew, perhaps for a delivery run.

In the end we don't know enough to have an informed view about what happened, so best to wait and see what comes out about it once, I very much hope, they are safely back onshore.

Latest report, people safe and on board Nemesis, yacht abandoned.

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Quixotic said..
Latest report, people safe and on board Nemesis, yacht abandoned.

Is the ais still pinging? I noted that when that American guy was rescued after rounding Cape Horn last year he was told to scuttle his boat as the last thing he did before getting off. Would this be the same deal here?

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Chris 249 said..

Yara said..
Dont understand why they would be at sea given the forecasts we have had.
www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/major-rescue-operation-for-stricken-yacht-off-nsw-coast-20240902-p5k7as.html

Because (leaving apart crew numbers, which may not be relevant) a Volvo 60 should be able to take such conditions in its stride.

If a boat can't go to sea with such a forecast then maybe it shouldn't ever go to sea. After all, one may cop such conditions even when the forecast is for milder winds. If one continually dodges bad weather then how does one ever learn how to handle it?

The bottom line is that a boat designed for racing around the world can easily handle such conditions, just as your boat can easily handle a 10 knot sea breeze on the harbour but could still sometimes suffer a mishap. Does the fact that your boat could suffer a mishape in 10 knot breeze mean that you should never go out unless the forecast is for 5 knots or less?

My concern with such incidents is that often people who SHOULD be able to handle such conditions now hit the EPIRB and put others at risk. That may not be the case here, but back in the day we would lose masts and rudders in bad conditions offshore and never think about calling for assistance. This Mayday may have been justified but there appear to be some that are not.

Yacht abandoned, at least crew OK. Waiting for less severe weather would have saved resources and bucks.

AIS (being VHF) is out of range of shore based stations. I don't have a subscription to marinetraffic or similar, to see if it is still being received by satellite. Someone who does may be able to say.

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Chris 249 said..

Yara said..
Dont understand why they would be at sea given the forecasts we have had.
www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/major-rescue-operation-for-stricken-yacht-off-nsw-coast-20240902-p5k7as.html

Because (leaving apart crew numbers, which may not be relevant) a Volvo 60 should be able to take such conditions in its stride.

If a boat can't go to sea with such a forecast then maybe it shouldn't ever go to sea. After all, one may cop such conditions even when the forecast is for milder winds. If one continually dodges bad weather then how does one ever learn how to handle it?

The bottom line is that a boat designed for racing around the world can easily handle such conditions, just as your boat can easily handle a 10 knot sea breeze on the harbour but could still sometimes suffer a mishap. Does the fact that your boat could suffer a mishape in 10 knot breeze mean that you should never go out unless the forecast is for 5 knots or less?

My concern with such incidents is that often people who SHOULD be able to handle such conditions now hit the EPIRB and put others at risk. That may not be the case here, but back in the day we would lose masts and rudders in bad conditions offshore and never think about calling for assistance. This Mayday may have been justified but there appear to be some that are not.

Sometimes I think with these retired racing yachts that some of these lame offshore incidents are insurance write-off jobs. The world is littered with these ex racing yachts that cant be sold. Besides who has not see the videos of the Volvo 60's in the roaring 40's in horrendous sea conditions. It would be last if still floating vessel I would be thinking of abandoning unless it was something like a loose keel.

Latest-www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/rescue-operation-resumes-for-stricken-yacht-off-nsw-coast-20240903-p5k7c4.html

Says rudder problem, and maybe jib furler problem.

They say that the yacht may be recovered, so it's not sinking.

And whether or not the rudder is answering the helm, she seems to be tracking along under an albeit rooted headsail - certainly doesn't appear to be doing circles or "gybe after gybe".

Wouldn't you just wanna strap yourself into your bunk and wait for the wind to stop? F**k getting into the water and into a rib in those conditions!

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JonE said..
Wouldn't you just wanna strap yourself into your bunk and wait for the wind to stop? F**k getting into the water and into a rib in those conditions!

Trouble is that every hour you were strapped into your bunk you were probably getting maybe 5 NM further away from help.
Not an exciting prospect

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Jethrow said..

JonE said..
Wouldn't you just wanna strap yourself into your bunk and wait for the wind to stop? F**k getting into the water and into a rib in those conditions!

Trouble is that every hour you were strapped into your bunk you were probably getting maybe 5 NM further away from help.
Not an exciting prospect

I always believed that once you are out of a harbour, you need to consider that you could end up way out to sea. I would much rather be blown offshore than on to a lee shore. Assuming, of course, that you are not sinking!

A good size donk and lots of fuel is another solution, but lots of racing yachts have minimum engine size to save weight, and others consider the engine just there to control the boat when picking up a mooring.

Sixty plus man and a forty plus woman heading North 80 nm East of Ulladulla in a gale that has been forecast for a week. The media is all over the place with this story. The video of the rib approaching the yacht shows a reasonable swell but nothing like the ridiculous stuff on the news!

Much as I agree a new, well kept and race ready Volvo 60 could handle these conditions with a full race crew, I don't think it is prudent that anyone take off in an older, Volvo 60 without a high quality full crew in the conditions that were well forecast. That means some young and strong guys to do gorilla work up front and up high.

I hope that we don't get people hollering for more restrictions on sailors because people call for help in conditions that could easily have been avoided by looking at forecasts that are easily available. I have this problem as a road bike rider. I am all for car drivers being safe around riders, but sometimes riders can be real dicks, going through red lights, riding large when they could let cars go by. Just because someone shares my passion doesn't mean they weren't being stupid when they got in trouble.

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/sep/03/mt-wellington-hikers-rescued-premiere-jeremy-rockliff

Funny isn't it. The media and perhaps the public expects hikers to be far more aware and responsible for their actions than in sailing.

In sailing it's always "mechanical difficulties" or "taking on water" or "bad design" or the BOM or the CYCA's fault...

Except on Seabreeze

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JonE said..
www.theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/sep/03/mt-wellington-hikers-rescued-premiere-jeremy-rockliff

Funny isn't it. The media and perhaps the public expects hikers to be far more aware and responsible for their actions than in sailing.

In sailing it's always "mechanical difficulties" or "taking on water" or "bad design" or the BOM or the CYCA's fault...

Except on Seabreeze

Pretty hard to blame your vehicle when you are on foot.

Or people getting in trouble cruising the outback usually run out of fuel, get bogged, break an axle, big red goes through the radiator.

It gets more puzzling

www.9news.com.au/national/two-sailors-rescue-operation-east-nowra-nsw-south-coast/d8b9e5a2-125d-4930-8728-8e9da7e94986

It says they left Jervis Bay for Queensland. So it looks as though they sailed almost East instead of north, problems straight away perhaps? Point Perpendicular was getting 40 knot norwester gusts on September 2 and it was norwest on September 1. In fact it had been in the north and blowing hard since August 20th.www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/202408/html/IDCJDW2067.202408.shtmlDid they have a delivery schedule they were up against? Sailing upwind in heaps of wind shorthanded is getting pretty dumb. I don't get it.

The NSW Water Police did an outstanding job in unpleasant conditions. The yacht left Jervis Bay the day before. It seems it's the same yacht that has been at anchor off Callala Bay in JB for the last 12 months after stopping over with engine problems. About a month ago she was half full of water. Have not confirmed yet but looks to be the same boat to me.

This is JB on the 13th of July. The MSB officer had already pumped water out several times.

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Ramona said..
This is JB on the 13th of July. The MSB officer had already pumped water out several times.

Maybe new Queensland owners and they weren't told of the recurring water ingress problem. Would have thought if it was the same owner he would have rectified the problem before going to sea. Sad if that's the case and not a good reflection on the surveyor if there was one.
Do you remember the name of the one in JB?

If you haven't seen a surveyors report how can you say it reflects poorly on a surveyor?

if the owner is happy to ignore repeated forecasts for sustained, dangerous conditions do you think they paid attention to the defect list on a survey report?

And nobody should be buying and going offshore in an open 60 if their maintenance abilities don't exceed those of the typical surveyor. It would be like buying a classic car and not being able to change the spark plugs.

Hmm. I had assumed that they were on a longer passage and got caught out in the middle of it.

That looks to me like an old racing #3 or 4 and a furled and covered mainsail. So perhaps they put out to sea under that rig, which would explain why they sagged way offshore and why the sail tore. Under jib only they may not handle at all well upwind and may have needed a lot of helm.

Perhaps the issue is once again not using proper storm sails. A storm jib and storm trysail combo will keep the boat controllable, won't blow out and get hung up, and would allow the boat to be steered more easily.

Certainly a torn jib and furler problems should not cause a round the world boat significant trouble. There's a fairly easy way to get a boat of that size to self-furl a jib in windy conditions - just go around in circles and as the jib blows to leeward each time it will furl itself. It's really quite easy, and then one can secure it by wrapping halyards around the sail.

EDIT - after seeing Ramona's pics one can only hope that the problems had been well and truly fixed and good trials done before the boat left in those conditions. One can understand that the leak may have been something that could only be fixed in a major port, but in that case you'd have to wait for benign conditions.

I hope the RMS officer provides a report to the relevant authorities.

It was reported on tv this morning they lost their rudder.

The water police states it was new owner liveaboards heading for QLD , they checked the weather but obviously not close enough.
i doubt insurance (if they had any would cover them if they set sail into gale force winds, I know my new policy doesn't.
Here's me up the mangroves in Port Douglas in a Bluewater 42 ocean yacht seeking shelter from this blow I seen coming 4 days ago! Go figure.

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Chris 249 said..
Hmm. I had assumed that they were on a longer passage and got caught out in the middle of it.

That looks to me like an old racing #3 or 4 and a furled and covered mainsail. So perhaps they put out to sea under that rig, which would explain why they sagged way offshore and why the sail tore. Under jib only they may not handle at all well upwind and may have needed a lot of helm.

Perhaps the issue is once again not using proper storm sails. A storm jib and storm trysail combo will keep the boat controllable, won't blow out and get hung up, and would allow the boat to be steered more easily.

Certainly a torn jib and furler problems should not cause a round the world boat significant trouble. There's a fairly easy way to get a boat of that size to self-furl a jib in windy conditions - just go around in circles and as the jib blows to leeward each time it will furl itself. It's really quite easy, and then one can secure it by wrapping halyards around the sail.

EDIT - after seeing Ramona's pics one can only hope that the problems had been well and truly fixed and good trials done before the boat left in those conditions. One can understand that the leak may have been something that could only be fixed in a major port, but in that case you'd have to wait for benign conditions.

I hope the RMS officer provides a report to the relevant authorities.

Reported rudder problem may have precluded circling to furl jib. Without main, might be hard in a gale to get her to point up and through the wind even with a working rudder. No mention of the engine, and whether that was part of the mechanical difficulties. Partly raising the main to get a bit of lee helm perhaps only feasible if already rigged with a decent 3rd reef. Alternative might be a storm trysail, if there was one on board, or better still one on the deck in a bag by the mast with halyard connected and sliders/luff in a separate track.

As I understand it Volvo 60s were designed with 5 watertight compartments and were virtually unsinkable. Perhaps that changed, or this boat was modified. Also standard at one stage were gudgeons on the transom for an emergency rudder. Of course even with these and if there were an emergency rudder on board, mounting it in 5m seas and a gale might be impossible or far too risky to attempt, especially if the boat could not be pointed into the waves. A sea anchor or drogue might have been useful, at least to slow her down and get her facing into the wind/swell.

In the end if they were too tired and too seasick (as I think one said when they were back on shore), and had no means to slow or manoeuvre the boat, better to seek help before getting blown even further offshore, and physical capacity deteriorating further. She reportedly covered from 80nm offshore when EPIRB triggered around midday to 160nm offshore by the time the crew were rescued the next morning.

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Ramona said..
Due East of Shoalhaven Bight 185 km. Windiest day of the year with the added bonus of extra wind channelled down the Shoalhaven. Fortunately directly offshore from the Navy air station NAS Nowra but it seems too windy for the navy helicopters to lift them off yesterday afternoon. Other units on their way.

Any thoughts on why they wouldn't have got the crew into the water and lifted them from there? It was the way we did it back many years ago.