I have the idea of buying a trailer sailer and removing the mast ,sails and rigging and putting a couple of 15 hp 4 strokes on it. I intend to go to the reef as I live in north qld and fuel is becoming too expensive to run my power boat. also looking at the accommodation side for 2 and 3 day trips. I am thinking along the lines of a 26 footer or there abouts. Can anyone tell me if this will work and if so the type of cruise speed and fuel consumption I could expect. Also how most trailer sailers handle under power

I always thought hull speed determined how fast a displacement vessel would go regardless of how much power was used.
But I could be wrong.

I believe you are right but having never had anything to do with displacement hulls I am after general info. The two motors would be a safety consideration as a 15 is not a very big motor to be running consistently. hate to break down and need a tow

If you are looking for economy get something with a diesel. Why not a displacement cruiser? Depending on the trailer sailer you buy you will probably have to strengthen the transom. A bit smaller than what you are looking for but an arvor 20 planes, trailerable and very economical. There are other options then an arvor which would be cheaper and longer.

The hull speed is limited to 1.34 times the square root of the water line length.
So this 26' trailer sailer is go to have a waterline length of 22'. Sq rt is 4.69. 4.69 x 1.34 is 6.28 knots...flat out unless planing on a wave.
The biggest trailable yacht in Oz was probably the South Coast Magnum 28.
And just one 15hp 4st will push a Magnum to 6.5 knots. And the Magnum is a big and heavy boat.
If you bought the popular Sonata 26 the 15hp would be truckloads of power.
You should buy only one motor.
And yer gonna need a bigger car because a 26 footer on its trailer isn't chicken feed.
Keep in mind that trailable yachts have a fair bit of "rocker" in the hull which causes pitching. What that means is that, unlike a power boat, the transom (and prop) are sometimes going to be sucking air.
If you google 'hull rocker', go to images, you'll see what rocker is.
There could be some South Coast 25's which are trailable having a lifting keel and a few were fitted with BMW (made by Hatz) 12HP diesels.
Maybe other trailable yots with diesels. GOT to be better than an outboard...I'm thinking.
On edit. If you do this then use the Hi - Thrust outboards such as those fantastic Yamahas they drive Seawind Catamarans with. A normal 15hp outboard as designed for a tinnie would be a mistake. Doable but not right. A planing outboard on a displacement hull would not be great when you can get h/thrust motors from Suzuki and Yammie.
Maybe just 6 1/2 knots will be a deal breaker?
Have fun.

Trouble is when you try to change something that probably a fairly experienced person spent a lot of time designing for a purpose, gets bastardized into something else. Then fails at that.

a diesel displacement designed and built for a purpose is more likely to satisfy.

Not pretty....but very practical ....its got all the stuff you would likely need.


www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/power-boats/24ft-ex-survey-fishing-dory/173714

Thanks brianlara and twodog. I was thinking along the lines of a sonata 8 or a sonata 26. wondering if they will handle 3 to 4 foot waves ok if it blows up as I go out 40 or 50 mile. Is there more roll in a trailer sailer when at anchor than in an outboard. Nice to know a 15 is enough power. weight not a problem as I have a 3.5 ton tow capacity. like the cruiser twodog but looking for a trailerable one. What are the older macgregor 25 like

If you want a high speed hull the mcGregor 26 is the way to go. However it will cost you the same or more than a typical power boat. If you are happy with displacement speeds then you will not need anything more than about 15 hp for a 25 ft boat.

However, the basic principle is still that it is best to buy a boat that is designed for the job, so if you want a power boat, buy a power boat. It will prove to be the most economical solution in the end. I met a guy once that did what you envisage. He butchered a lovely Trailer/Sailer and ended up with a worthless abortion.

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Yara said..
If you want a high speed hull the mcGregor 26 is the way to go. However it will cost you the same or more than a typical power boat. If you are happy with displacement speeds then you will not need anything more than about 15 hp for a 25 ft boat.

However, the basic principle is still that it is best to buy a boat that is designed for the job, so if you want a power boat, buy a power boat. It will prove to be the most economical solution in the end. I met a guy once that did what you envisage. He butchered a lovely Trailer/Sailer and ended up with a worthless abortion.

+1

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different said...
Thanks brianlara and twodog. I was thinking along the lines of a sonata 8 or a sonata 26. wondering if they will handle 3 to 4 foot waves ok if it blows up as I go out 40 or 50 mile. Is there more roll in a trailer sailer when at anchor than in an outboard. Nice to know a 15 is enough power. weight not a problem as I have a 3.5 ton tow capacity. like the cruiser twodog but looking for a trailerable one. What are the older macgregor 25 like

While that doesn't come with a trailer it would be trailable. I also posted it as an example of the type of boat i was discribing economical to run.

My view is ...... Don't do it !

Best st option for you sounds like a small motor cruiser , diesel powered .

But if it were me in your shoes , I would go for a moter sailer , just like the idea of sail power .

Most sailboats, when the sails are down, roll badly because the dampening offered by the sails is gone and is made worse by the keel pendulum effect. The situation is then worsened further by the round bilge design.
The more I think about it the more I think this plan will fail.because rolling will be intolerable as a fishing platform.

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different said..
I have the idea of buying a trailer sailer and removing the mast ,sails and rigging and putting a couple of 15 hp 4 strokes on it. I intend to go to the reef as I live in north qld and fuel is becoming too expensive to run my power boat. also looking at the accommodation side for 2 and 3 day trips. I am thinking along the lines of a 26 footer or there abouts. Can anyone tell me if this will work and if so the type of cruise speed and fuel consumption I could expect. Also how most trailer sailers handle under power

I cannot understand the logic of removing the mast, sails and rigging, (although with a trailer sailer it's more a case of not setting them up in the first place), in order to go fishing, when your problem seems to be the price of the fuel to begin with, why not sail out to the reef, drop sails, anchor or heave too and start fishing, then you could possibly add a small outboard in case of head winds on the way home without upsetting the designed functioning of the boat to much.

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brianlara3 said..
Most sailboats, when the sails are down, roll badly because the dampening offered by the sails is gone and is made worse by the keel pendulum effect. The situation is then worsened further by the round bilge design.
The more I think about it the more I think this plan will fail.because rolling will be intolerable as a fishing platform.

......roll roll roll your boat gently down the stream.
.....merrily merrily merrily, life is but a nightmare!

Keel & T/S yachts are typically displacement type of hulls. Maximal speed can be acchive with relatively
small engine. My 23 f. T/ S with 9.9 Yamaha 4 stroke is overpowered. Close to 6 knots, build up a bow wave
whitch stops the boat going faster. It was previously mentioned ,displacement hull speed limitation.
There are of course a few flat bottom T/S with enough engine power , can achieve planing speed.
I would question fuel economy and distortions of the hull pushing it wrong speed.

It seems like the problem is the cost of fuel. Here is a solution that will achieve the same thing as a trailer sailer, and will certainly work:

Go out to the reef at slow (less than hull), speed, making a minimum wake. You might need a smaller motor to achieve maximum economy. This will get you there at a similar speed to a sailboat, and with a similar, but a bit greater, fuel consumption. If the weather gets nasty and you need to bail in a hurry, you can still power up to get home fast.

As the long time owner of a Sonata 26, and with a lot of big boat (yacht) racing and small power boat experience - my advice is - don't do it!
As previous posts have suggested there are a lot of reasons - I will add a few more.
Most trailer sailors are lightly built relative to a similar length keel yacht (for obvious reasons) and are just not strong enough for open ocean conditions, certainly not if you get caught in a big blow. Similarly they are a compromise (as are all yachts), particularly for trailerability and have generally flat bottoms relative to most keel yachts. In any sort of medium wave conditions the hull will slam as it comes down from the back of a wave - with a bone jarring shudder - until something gives way.
The boat rolling without the mast up is not as bad as a power boat without a keel, but it is an unusual motion without the damping effect of the rig. Also the keels are generally daggers or swing boards with not a large amount of mass or surface area.
Another issue to consider is that apart from a very few (Noelex 25, Austral 8), most trailerable yachts have outboards hanging off a bracket on the transom. The issue here is not so much how many horsepower you have it is keeping the prop in the water in any sort of seaway/slop.
If you want to use it to explore inshore and daysailing on coastal waterways or shallow rivers or lake areas or even letting it dry out on a low tide, the concept is sound - but as an offshore option I would strongly recommend against it.

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PhoenixStar said..
What about a McGreggor? Best of both worlds.

http://yachthub.com/list/boats-for-sale/used/trailer-boats/macgregor-26m-2007/191678

What about a Mcgreggor? The worst of both worlds edite for you phoenix!

Different. On boatsales.com.au is a South Coast 25. I had one once, they sail pretty poorly because they were built way too heavily. I had one with a 12hp BMW diesel. They roll a bit because the hull form is very round which means that there is a lot of hull underwater. Being a pure displacement hull, unlike MacGregors which plane easily with their flat bottom, they ride very softly and have a deep forefoot. This one has a 2 hour old 8hp 4 stroke, plenty for hull speed. The beauty of this thing is that the motor is mounted in the cockpit which puts the prop about a foof forward of the transom rather than a foot behind it. The exhaust is thru prop so fumes would not be an issue other than with te engine in neutral with the boat not making any way.
This boat is a Mk1 which simply means that the coach house top is diff to the Mk2. Windows are diff.
Forgot to notice if a trailer came with it. They have an hydraulic lifting keel, the housing for which forms the table base.
Don't ask me for exact specs but it's probably 750kg heavier than a Sonata.
Went from Sydney to Lake McQuarie in mine probably ten times. Soft riding sea boat but half as fast as the Sonata, given equal wind.
If it were me buying this boat or something like the Austral 8 I wouldn't dream of removing the rig. If you find you dont like sailing then put the rig in a garage or somewhere but p le a s e try it with sails first.
This thing READS....READS...... like the ducks guts, given your proposal outline.

There'a Mk 2 South Coast 25 with a shaft drive Yanmar 15hp diesel on Buyaboat.com. It's in Newcastle but without a trailer for 15K. Owners have a trucking company and are offering transportation. Obviously, they could lift it onto a trailer supplied by new owner. Fwiw.

I lifted a 25 Robets off the bottom had sat there for 1/2 the year, before it sank it was in good condition now sails are had it and the hull is full of dead catfish...
i could see the logic in cleaning and striping it back, ripping the engine out of it mounting an outboard and a stay sail and using it to see the reef.
but not taking a operating sailboat and mutilating it.

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felixdcat said..

PhoenixStar said..
What about a McGreggor? Best of both worlds.

http://yachthub.com/list/boats-for-sale/used/trailer-boats/macgregor-26m-2007/191678

What about a Mcgreggor? The worst of both worlds edite for you phoenix!

If that's too expensive, try a jcat. They take a 15 HP outboard OK.

thank you everyone for your input. My thoughts on a trailer sailer were for reduced cost to run and therefore happy to accept a5 or6 knot cruise speed as I can troll on the way out. I would have thought removing the mast and rigging from a boat designed for that purpose would hardly be deforming it in any way and by keeping them it is still a trailer sailer at a latter date with them replaced. I don't know if anyone has tried to drive an outboard boat any distance at sea at low speeds but mine is a pig to steer out there. I am also looking for something with camping facilities as a 17 ft tinny is not too good for over nighters. Where I am is protected by the great barrier reef and our forcasts do not even include a swell inside the reef so a blow is like 20 knots and waves to a max of 4 feet. Brianlara3. How thick is the hull on the South Coast and how often do the prop shaft seals need replacing. Would it handle that type of sea if needed? Would the banging down be any worse than in a power boat.

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different said..
thank you everyone for your input. My thoughts on a trailer sailer were for reduced cost to run and therefore happy to accept a5 or6 knot cruise speed as I can troll on the way out. I would have thought removing the mast and rigging from a boat designed for that purpose would hardly be deforming it in any way and by keeping them it is still a trailer sailer at a latter date with them replaced. I don't know if anyone has tried to drive an outboard boat any distance at sea at low speeds but mine is a pig to steer out there. I am also looking for something with camping facilities as a 17 ft tinny is not too good for over nighters. Where I am is protected by the great barrier reef and our forcasts do not even include a swell inside the reef so a blow is like 20 knots and waves to a max of 4 feet. Brianlara3. How thick is the hull on the South Coast and how often do the prop shaft seals need replacing. Would it handle that type of sea if needed? Would the banging down be any worse than in a power boat.

How thick is the hull? I don't know. Only Rudi Walkens who owned South Coast Yachts would know. But SC 25's are like SC36's seriously heavily laid up. SC25 is probably the heaviest laid up boat , sail or power, ever built in Australia.
Will it handle the seas?? I'd rather be in bloody awful seas in a SC25 than a Bertram 35..Whilst the Bertram is also a tough boat, it has a flat/V bottom which would often pound. But the SC with it's round hull form really glides through the toughest seas. It's a trailer sailer right? As such, it IS MORE TENDER under sail than a fixed keel boat because of reduced ballast ratio. But when motoring it is extremely sea kindly. I said already that I often went Syd to Lake MacQ. Did I pick my weather?? NEVER, no need. It it was too windy for the modest ballast ratio then I plowed through the crap under motor.
Under motor, especially a diesel, I would take it anywhere I'd take my mates Mariner 39 flybridge which I delivered down from Sanctury Cove.
Shaft seals. Do them once and depending on the type forget 'em, or occasionally lube and adjust the gland nut.
SC 25....NO banging.
But if you buy the outboard version, in monster seas, even with the motor in the cockpit, possible that some cavitation will occur. Maybe, maybe not.

I would suggest something like Chariots Aquarious 23 trailer sailer. Single outboard up to 8 hp. Bit of a keel to give directional stability but still get close inshore. Keep the mast and sails though. The mast you will need to support the full shade cover you will need to live in those weather conditions. Down below will be unpleasant. Make a Korts nozzle for the outboard to ensure good thrust and stop any cavitation if the sea is sloppy. Drop a bit of keel down when required to aid steering if required. Any boat under 30 feet you will be basically camping in the cockpit anyway.

Check Youtube for videos of people doing the same.

Id probably just settle for an old Seawind 24 and leave the mast at home and fit a new outboard





bloomsbury.australialisted.com/4799/boats-yachts-parts/great-condition-seawind-24_18156159.html

http://www.boatsales.com.au/boats-for-sale/private/used/SSE-AD-3747668/1986-Seawind-24-CATAMARAN

www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-trimaran/seawind-24/180331

bit more room
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/woodgate/sail-boats/catamaran-30ft/1131558427

and a el cheapo
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/mooloolaba/sail-boats/seawind-24/1132602791

Different,
I think you have the right idea looking at full displacement hulls for safe, economical cruising. I wouldn't however suggest a sailboat stripped of mast & rigging. Every boat is designed for a particular use.

There are trailerable full displacement power boats as well. They aren't common in Australia, but there there are a few around. Here's one example. http://yachthub.com/list/boats-for-sale/used/trailer-boats/roberts-21-longboat/194163
Here's a new one. yachthub.com/list/boats-for-sale/used/power-boats/delphia-nano/152301


Also consider a motorsailer. Often they have a basic set of sails that can be used on their own to power the boat in the right winds, or used to steady the rolling in a beam sea, or used as a get home emergency power if the engine fails. They are hard (impossible?) to find in a trailerable size though.

Looks like you have to buy a power boat with a cabin. Power boats are more spacious so an18ft would probably do.

To improve the low speed steering it is easy enough to fit an additional rudder, either onto the motor, or separate and linked to it. (The Careel 18 folks sometimes do this in order to stop the prop chopping into the rudder.) For safety, wouldnt you have a smaller extra motor anyway? A Korts nozzle (collar around the prop), will also help the low speed steering.

If you choose a hull with a deep V that will add to directional stability, as well as improved ride.

I had a Pilot 18 back in the 80's that I put together, Great little boat. Pilot Marine in Spearwood layed up the hulls and decks. You had a choice to have an open deck or a cuddy cabin.

https://www.boatlocator.com.au/item/australia/15-western-australia/89-boats-for-sale-94-sold/13009-pilot-18

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cisco said...

Jolene said..
I had a Pilot 18 back in the 80's that I put together, Great little boat. Pilot Marine in Spearwood layed up the hulls and decks. You had a choice to have an open deck or a cuddy cabin.

https://www.boatlocator.com.au/item/australia/15-western-australia/89-boats-for-sale-94-sold/13009-pilot-18

That is a beautiful little "putt,putt".

If you're going for something like that a Kingston or delta would be better

These are fairly inexpensive go well with a 15 HP outboard. Modified Jcat.