Originally my rigging terminal end on top of the mast for the spreader was a bolt ( threaded rod both ends) going though both sides of the mast and swagged eye was bolted to both sides after removing it and seeing the bolt half sawn through by a wire halyard over the years its not going back on
Also who ever rigged it last time
put a bend in the swaged eye and there is no way in hell would i ever do that.
And there was no spacer fitted between the bolt and the inside of the mast which is also a no no as far as I am concerned
I am looking at good suggestions please maybe ball ends or some other better system for the spreader to mast rigging wire

Hi HG,
This is a pic of my setup. Male/female pin with a button end for the shroud...

Ca Ca Ca carbon fiber
Mines more like corroded aluminium stick Shaggy

But I'm on to it,been looking at T balls Ive no knowledge as to there strength?
but I cant use what was there even my mast heads are pretty average I guess that's one of the reasons Ive been a little slow on getting these masts up in the air.

You should have had tangs fitted to take the angle from the mast so that the swaged eye is straight.

Had the same problem on Seaka before I re-rigged in 2014.

Nice end though Shaggy wonder who makes those bad boys?

HG
I've got the same set up except for rope halyards through the mast. Spreader wires terminate inside the mast about 8 inches below the masthead area.
I had my spreader wires replaced last winter, got the yard to do it as I couldn't figure out how to get the cover off the end of the through bolt.

Next time I'd prefer to have external tangs so I can hand swage my own rigging for this job.
However, I found this page www.allyachtspars.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/B12-T-ball-Rigging-Tangs.pdf
with all the T-ball stuff and tangs, etc you were looking for, except for the breaking strains of them. But you could ring/write to them as it is their speciality.
Their main catalogue/menu page is: www.allyachtspars.com.au/catalogue/

I hope this helps.

Phillip

Northerner28

Considering your mind set HG, I think you should go with :- www.stalok.com/

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cisco said..

Considering your mind set HG, I think you should go with :- www.stalok.com/

Ive thought of those but Ive so much to finish off on this boat I'm going for the easy option on this Cisco
Thanks for the Link Fab Phil

And you wonder why your wire main sheet halyard was so hard to raise plus no spacer for the width of the mast on this spreader mounting rod

Hi HG,
Sorry for late reply, the ss fitting in pic is from ZSpars mate. The load on this point is seriously nuts due to the backstayless design, so I have a feeling it is manufactured specific to the mast outer dimension, there wasn't a spare mm of slop when we fitted it.

Wow, that groove is impressive!

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FabulousPhill said...
HG
I've got the same set up except for rope halyards through the mast. Spreader wires terminate inside the mast about 8 inches below the masthead area.
I had my spreader wires replaced last winter, got the yard to do it as I couldn't figure out how to get the cover off the end of the through bolt.

Next time I'd prefer to have external tangs so I can hand swage my own rigging for this job.
However, I found this page www.allyachtspars.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/B12-T-ball-Rigging-Tangs.pdf
with all the T-ball stuff and tangs, etc you were looking for, except for the breaking strains of them. But you could ring/write to them as it is their speciality.
Their main catalogue/menu page is: www.allyachtspars.com.au/catalogue/

I hope this helps.

Phillip

Northerner28

That whole catalogue FP is saved in my iBooks as one of my main references when you're sitting on the boat holding some broken bit, has some good info!

hey HG,

Firstly any rigger worth his salt would put a spacer sleeve over that bolt to help with loads and with chafe.

If it was my rig I would drill out the end holes to fit a new bolt with sleeve, nice size washers and tangs to take swage eyes like you have.

On the bent swages, roll swage machines can do this on occasions and although I try to make sure it doesn't happen I have seen plenty of bent ones and I am yet to see/hear of a breakage caused by it.

You could go the t-ball and backing plate option but there is a bit of work fitting the backing plate (it has to go up the mast from one end or the other with a mouse line) and it can fall out when standing the mast. Someone makes little rubber balls to stop them falling out, can't remember who though..

Some thing like this Hg,?? The hole through the mast for the bolt fits the bolt one side and fits the compression spacer the on the other. That way the the compression spacer can be fitted externally and still uses the mast wall on one side for support.

Oh and change to Spectra halyards!!!

Message me if you want some good prices :)

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Jolene said...
Some thing like this Hg,?? The hole through the mast for the bolt fits the bolt one side and fits the compression spacer the on the other. That way the the compression spacer can be fitted externally and still uses the mast wall on one side for support.

yes that what it should have had . Then there's the problem of halyard rubbing on the bolt and spacer
Cisco my original rigging system was norlok
It's been there a long time and now they have gone obsolete no longer made and then think about the extra cost of stayloc
then add the question what sort of condition would they be in in let say fifteen years time when its rerigging time once again

One might charge me with thread hijacking, but the above post provoked me doing it!

I am talking about cruising, not racing!

Re rigging with spectra would cost four to five times the cost of re rigging with double braid (db!) at Whithworth's prices. 10mm l am talking about.
Would the enormous price difference be justified in the case of a small cruiser?

I have sailed on 12 metre racing boats with ancient db halyards and sheets at least 8-10 years old, no worries in 45 knot winds.

The 10mm spectra's 245% more braking strain compared to Usacord 10mm db is wasted imo, on a small to medium sized cruiser. This spectra rope woud be stronger than some small yachts rigging.

If the db lasts for just 5 years, one would be able to re rig ones boat 4 to 5 times for the same cost. As db lasts longer than 5 years, my argument is more valid as spectra will not last 25 years+, imo.

One could use thinner 8mm spectra which is cheaper, but as a halyard, let alone sheet, would be close to like cheese cutting wire ripping ones gloves and hands apart.

For everyone, but especially a retired person without unlimited supplies of money, it is a hell of a difference between a 50 $ halyard and a 300 $ halyard.

If a supplier would be able to supply spectra for a 70-80% discount one would not hesitate, would he?
Until then l am going to suffer my miserable life with double braid ropes in my paws.

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sirgallivant said..
One might charge me with thread hijacking, but the above post provoked me doing it!

I am talking about cruising, not racing!

Re rigging with spectra would cost four to five times the cost of re rigging with double braid (db!) at Whithworth's prices. 10mm l am talking about.
Would the enormous price difference be justified in the case of a small cruiser?

I have sailed on 12 metre racing boats with ancient db halyards and sheets at least 8-10 years old, no worries in 45 knot winds.

The 10mm spectra's 245% more braking strain compared to Usacord 10mm db is wasted imo, on a small to medium sized cruiser. This spectra rope woud be stronger than some small yachts rigging.

If the db lasts for just 5 years, one would be able to re rig ones boat 4 to 5 times for the same cost. As db lasts longer than 5 years, my argument is more valid as spectra will not last 25 years+, imo.

One could use thinner 8mm spectra which is cheaper, but as a halyard, let alone sheet, would be close to like cheese cutting wire ripping ones gloves and hands apart.

For everyone, but especially a retired person without unlimited supplies of money, it is a hell of a difference between a 50 $ halyard and a 300 $ halyard.

If a supplier would be able to supply spectra for a 70-80% discount one would not hesitate, would he?
Until then l am going to suffer my miserable life with double braid ropes in my paws.

Stretch, well more importantly stretch at working loads.
Spectra won't last any longer than DB (same cover) but it's the stretch your sizing halyards for.

Does a 30ft cruiser winch his main or jib halyard tight? if so then DB is a waste of time becasue in anything over 15 knots you'll end up with a fairly slack halyard. For 10mm DB your talking 5% @ 1/4 breaking load so that can be 500mm on a 10m mast!

Are you sure the 12m racing boat had DB the whole length of the halyards? Not wire spliced to DB for the last bit before the clutch/winch?

DB is fine on sheets on nearly all cruising boats but I have done a hell of alot of cruising boat rigs and replacement halyards and the only halyard I would use DB on is the kite.

I'm not saying the extra spend is for everybody but it does make sense to go spectra over DB is you can afford it.

Yeah, l appreciate you good intentions and the stretch difference btwn. S and DB, whoever l am not sure about your figures.
The 500mm stretch you are mentioning is enormous.
To my knowledge, the actual braking strain of a rope is one quarter of the given figure, at this figure the stretch would be 26.25mm (2100:4:100×5=26.25mm). Let's settle on 50mm, 5cm.
This figure would be much closer to my experience. I never seen a db rope stretch 500mm (50cm!) on my 11m mast. Not even at 40 knots.

I have one spectra rope, the boom uphaul, as l would not be keen on my boom sagging while l am writing this letter.

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rumblefish said..

sirgallivant said..
One might charge me with thread hijacking, but the above post provoked me doing it!

I am talking about cruising, not racing!

Re rigging with spectra would cost four to five times the cost of re rigging with double braid (db!) at Whithworth's prices. 10mm l am talking about.
Would the enormous price difference be justified in the case of a small cruiser?

I have sailed on 12 metre racing boats with ancient db halyards and sheets at least 8-10 years old, no worries in 45 knot winds.

The 10mm spectra's 245% more braking strain compared to Usacord 10mm db is wasted imo, on a small to medium sized cruiser. This spectra rope woud be stronger than some small yachts rigging.

If the db lasts for just 5 years, one would be able to re rig ones boat 4 to 5 times for the same cost. As db lasts longer than 5 years, my argument is more valid as spectra will not last 25 years+, imo.

One could use thinner 8mm spectra which is cheaper, but as a halyard, let alone sheet, would be close to like cheese cutting wire ripping ones gloves and hands apart.

For everyone, but especially a retired person without unlimited supplies of money, it is a hell of a difference between a 50 $ halyard and a 300 $ halyard.

If a supplier would be able to supply spectra for a 70-80% discount one would not hesitate, would he?
Until then l am going to suffer my miserable life with double braid ropes in my paws.

Stretch, well more importantly stretch at working loads.
Spectra won't last any longer than DB (same cover) but it's the stretch your sizing halyards for.

Does a 30ft cruiser winch his main or jib halyard tight? if so then DB is a waste of time becasue in anything over 15 knots you'll end up with a fairly slack halyard. For 10mm DB your talking 5% @ 1/4 breaking load so that can be 500mm on a 10m mast!

Are you sure the 12m racing boat had DB the whole length of the halyards? Not wire spliced to DB for the last bit before the clutch/winch?

DB is fine on sheets on nearly all cruising boats but I have done a hell of alot of cruising boat rigs and replacement halyards and the only halyard I would use DB on is the kite.

I'm not saying the extra spend is for everybody but it does make sense to go spectra over DB is you can afford it.

I am really sorry rumble, but I just can't agree. A fit guy on a 25:1 winch will just manage to load the 10 mil rope to 25%, but by then he has taken out all the 500 mm stretch. The question then is, how much more load is applied to the halyard in 15 knots and the answer is, on a foiled headsail, SFA, and even on a slugged main, not very much. If you are worried, go up to 12 mm and for the same load you are down to 2% stretch and it is still only on the extra stretch imposed by sailing loads. We used a 12 mm poly rope on a 14 meter cat with a 2 to 1 halyard and even with the notoriously heavy load that a cat can inflict we didn't notice any stretch of any consequence. Admittedly that cat was somewhat under powered, it was set up for singlehanded sailing. But it carried the sail without reefing in 35 knot winds. And if after all that you are still worried, get pre-stretched poly.