I used my No1 for the first time, and the bowline knots kept catching on the rigging. My son soon got jack of going forward to help it around. Plus not safe to do so on a small boat.

I am thinking of using a single jib sheet with an eye in the middle and attaching it to the clue with a soft shackle.

Any thoughts on a better way to do this and how to form the eye in the sheet?

Thanks

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BJRobinson said..
I used my No1 for the first time, and the bowline knots kept catching on the rigging. My son soon got jack of going forward to help it around. Plus not safe to do so on a small boat.

I am thinking of using a single jib sheet with an eye in the middle and attaching it to the clue with a soft shackle.

Any thoughts on a better way to do this and how to form the eye in the sheet?

Thanks

Have been on a couple of boats that use a single line with a cow hitch in the middle, through the clew. Works well.
Also helps if you hold the sail when you tack until it just starts to backwind then let it go using the wind to help the sail across.
Cheers

I put electrical conduit on my shrouds to help the knot around. Although UncleBob
is right.....let the wind do the work.

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UncleBob said..

BJRobinson said..
I used my No1 for the first time, and the bowline knots kept catching on the rigging. My son soon got jack of going forward to help it around. Plus not safe to do so on a small boat.

I am thinking of using a single jib sheet with an eye in the middle and attaching it to the clue with a soft shackle.

Any thoughts on a better way to do this and how to form the eye in the sheet?

Thanks

Have been on a couple of boats that use a single line with a cow hitch in the middle, through the clew. Works well.
Also helps if you hold the sail when you tack until it just starts to backwind then let it go using the wind to help the sail across.
Cheers

Thanks

Cow hitch looks good.

I understand about the wind. But there wasn't enough on the day to push it across.
I have conduit on the staysail stay(?) the stay aft and centre of the forestay. Didn't think about putting it on the shrouds.
Will have to do that. And I just adjusted the tension on my rigging. Oh well.

Had the same problem. Using a Larks head (Cow Hitch) solved it. Works great.

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BJRobinson said..
I used my No1 for the first time, and the bowline knots kept catching on the rigging. My son soon got jack of going forward to help it around. Plus not safe to do so on a small boat.

I am thinking of using a single jib sheet with an eye in the middle and attaching it to the clue with a soft shackle.

Any thoughts on a better way to do this and how to form the eye in the sheet?

Thanks

Bowlines catch the rigging on both my boats so I just ease the jib sheet so the knot is passed or forward of the rigging before I tack, works every time.,,,, Unless of course you have the knot catching an innerstay?

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BJRobinson said..
I used my No1 for the first time, and the bowline knots kept catching on the rigging. My son soon got jack of going forward to help it around. Plus not safe to do so on a small boat.

I am thinking of using a single jib sheet with an eye in the middle and attaching it to the clue with a soft shackle.

Any thoughts on a better way to do this and how to form the eye in the sheet?

Thanks

I have two sheets with soft eyes and a soft shackle. The soft eyes are made using a West country whipping with 2mm Spectra.

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Ramona said..

BJRobinson said..
I used my No1 for the first time, and the bowline knots kept catching on the rigging. My son soon got jack of going forward to help it around. Plus not safe to do so on a small boat.

I am thinking of using a single jib sheet with an eye in the middle and attaching it to the clue with a soft shackle.

Any thoughts on a better way to do this and how to form the eye in the sheet?

Thanks

I have two sheets with soft eyes and a soft shackle. The soft eyes are made using a West country whipping with 2mm Spectra.

My first idea was to make soft eyes in my existing sheets and use a soft shackle. I even went to the shop to look at some shackles. But then changed my mind to a single sheet with a central eye and soft shackle. Still like the soft shackle idea for ease of setup. Might stick with a single sheet with a central eye and a soft shackle. Don't know how well I will be able to tie soft eyes into old sheets.
Cheers.

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UncleBob said..

Have been on a couple of boats that use a single line with a cow hitch in the middle, through the clew. Works well.
Also helps if you hold the sail when you tack until it just starts to backwind then let it go using the wind to help the sail across.
Cheers

I use a single line with a cow hitch as well as conduit over the turnbuckles.

Where abouts are you BJR?? I'm in Kooroora Bay Bolton Point - we'll have to catch up one day!!

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Lazzz said..

UncleBob said..

Have been on a couple of boats that use a single line with a cow hitch in the middle, through the clew. Works well.
Also helps if you hold the sail when you tack until it just starts to backwind then let it go using the wind to help the sail across.
Cheers

I use a single line with a cow hitch as well as conduit over the turnbuckles.

Where abouts are you BJR?? I'm in Kooroora Bay Bolton Point - we'll have to catch up one day!!

Hey Lazzz
I'm just at Valentine!
Would be good to get together.
Keep in touch.
Cheers

Before you do anything, think of the following:

First, what size line U use as jib sheet? Is it 10mm or above, it is way too big for your boat. 8mm will do.
Older sheets, soft pliable ones catch easily new sheets not likely.

Second, are U using a bowline to attach it? If yes, are you tying the bitter end in like this



or out like this



The difference might be your salvation even more if you stitch the bitter end.

As far as your 20mm conduits for the shrowds are concerned you don't have to take the rigging down for attaching them:

Split it with a thin cutting blade (angle grinder will do) and presto. On and off in five seconds.

Thanks SirG

Thank you for taking the time to post pics.

I can see the problem with the different knots. I will take more care to get the tail to end up in the middle of the loop from now on. I couldn't tell you how mine are once I tie them.

I am pretty sure it is 12mm rope. Great for handling. Especially with my big boofy hands.
When I change the sheet I will get 10 or 8mm. But 8mm just seems too small to be able to get a good hold of. I am guessing you would know if you are 6'2" like I am.

I thought about splitting the conduit. But would be concerned that it could come off when the sheet is pulling against it. Just realised some electrical tape would hold it closed and on the shrouds.

Cheers.

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BJRobinson said..
Thanks SirG

Thank you for taking the time to post pics.

I can see the problem with the different knots. I will take more care to get the tail to end up in the middle of the loop from now on. I couldn't tell you how mine are once I tie them.

I am pretty sure it is 12mm rope. Great for handling. Especially with my big boofy hands.
When I change the sheet I will get 10 or 8mm. But 8mm just seems too small to be able to get a good hold of. I am guessing you would know if you are 6'2" like I am.

I thought about splitting the conduit. But would be concerned that it could come off when the sheet is pulling against it. Just realised some electrical tape would hold it closed and on the shrouds.

Cheers.

I would test the smaller size cordage on your winch, especially if it's a self tailer first before spending money. My headsail sheets are 14mm.
Should be able to see the solf shackle and soft loops in this shot.

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Ramona said..

BJRobinson said..
Thanks SirG

Thank you for taking the time to post pics.

I can see the problem with the different knots. I will take more care to get the tail to end up in the middle of the loop from now on. I couldn't tell you how mine are once I tie them.

I am pretty sure it is 12mm rope. Great for handling. Especially with my big boofy hands.
When I change the sheet I will get 10 or 8mm. But 8mm just seems too small to be able to get a good hold of. I am guessing you would know if you are 6'2" like I am.

I thought about splitting the conduit. But would be concerned that it could come off when the sheet is pulling against it. Just realised some electrical tape would hold it closed and on the shrouds.

Cheers.

I would test the smaller size cordage on your winch, especially if it's a self tailer first before spending money. My headsail sheets are 14mm.
Should be able to see the solf shackle and soft loops in this shot.

Thanks Romana.

Yeah I can see the loops and shackle. Good idea.
Wish I had self tailers. I can only get max 4 winds around the winch now. So a smaller sheet should be ok.

I am sure, the 8mm will do splendidly if it agrees with your winches. My boat had 12mm jib sheets and l was having problems in a zephyr. They were just too heavy. Same problem l had with the original 14mm!! main sheet. Changed both to 10mm and it is ok but on the jib sheet l am thinking about 8mm after l changed my main and jib halyard for 8mm spectra. Brilliant!

Btw, l am 6'3" and my son is 6'9" .

As far as the conduits are concerned, if you use a thin cutting blade you never gonna have problems with them. Don't mess with tape, it is going to make everything sticky in hot weather. If you are still worried use thin cable ties.

There is a point during a tack that the heady can be sheeted without catching the shrouds.

The trimmer needs to watch the clew and rip on the sheet at the exact moment

Not easy, takes time to get right, but really satisfying when it done right

When I say rip on the sheet, not just brute force, but quick smooth action just as the clew flogs past the shrouds

The sail won't be loaded at this point, you aren't trying to fight it, just time it when to sheet on

See how you go !

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shoodbegood said..
There is a point during a tack that the heady can be sheeted without catching the shrouds.

The trimmer needs to watch the clew and rip on the sheet at the exact moment

Not easy, takes time to get right, but really satisfying when it done right

When I say rip on the sheet, not just brute force, but quick smooth action just as the clew flogs past the shrouds

The sail won't be loaded at this point, you aren't trying to fight it, just time it when to sheet on

See how you go !

My grandfather had the mail contract delivering to Moreton Bay and he sailed the run in a motorless sailing sloop. I was ten years old and sometimes his jib sheet hand. There were no winches so you had to get the sheet onto the wooden cleat as she luffed or risk a stern look from the cap'n. A bit of timing and a ten year old kid can do it.

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shoodbegood said..
There is a point during a tack that the heady can be sheeted without catching the shrouds.

The trimmer needs to watch the clew and rip on the sheet at the exact moment

Not easy, takes time to get right, but really satisfying when it done right

When I say rip on the sheet, not just brute force, but quick smooth action just as the clew flogs past the shrouds

The sail won't be loaded at this point, you aren't trying to fight it, just time it when to sheet on

See how you go !

Agree, at one time I raced a lot and had a great jib sheet trimmer who could do exactly that. Also by the timing could get the boat to accelerate out of the tack brilliantly if he reefed it in at just the right rate if the boat tacked a bit wide and could get the jib sheets out of a snag by kind of whipping them.

One thing though, re the cows hitch, doesn't it slip? We stuck with bowlines like SirG shows because they seem guaranteed even if they do get caught sometimes.

This tactic is the same in many beach cats or they won't tack.

Thanks all.
I worked the jib racing for a mate for a few years on and off.
I understand about timing.
But this was a No1 with very little breeze. Literally had to drag it around. It caught when the breeze was almost non existent.
It's fine with the 3 and with a stronger wind.
Cheers.

Yes, because your sheets are way oversize!
We
12 mm sheets on a 26 footer is madness.

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sirgallivant said..
Yes, because your sheets are way oversize!
We
12 mm sheets on a 26 footer is madness.

we use 8mm sheets on headsails normally (26foot racing yacht) and have no issues in the self-tailers .....and use 6mm when it is very light . The only place we have 12mm ropes in for securing the boat back in her pen.

The answer is what others have said, timing and practice practice, practice but skirting the headsail is at times ..... a fact of life.

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dkd said..

sirgallivant said..
Yes, because your sheets are way oversize!
We
12 mm sheets on a 26 footer is madness.

we use 8mm sheets on headsails normally (26foot racing yacht) and have no issues in the self-tailers .....and use 6mm when it is very light . The only place we have 12mm ropes in for securing the boat back in her pen.

The answer is what others have said, timing and practice practice, practice but skirting the headsail is at times ..... a fact of life.

Agree. When I was racing a lot we used line nearly like a piece of string for our Spinnaker in extremely light air and our spinnaker could set while the boats behind had theirs flopping everywhere

Does the cow hitch mentioned above slip?

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Trek said..

dkd said..

sirgallivant said..
Yes, because your sheets are way oversize!
We
12 mm sheets on a 26 footer is madness.

we use 8mm sheets on headsails normally (26foot racing yacht) and have no issues in the self-tailers .....and use 6mm when it is very light . The only place we have 12mm ropes in for securing the boat back in her pen.

The answer is what others have said, timing and practice practice, practice but skirting the headsail is at times ..... a fact of life.

Agree. When I was racing a lot we used line nearly like a piece of string for our Spinnaker in extremely light air and our spinnaker could set while the boats behind had theirs flopping everywhere

Does the cow hitch mentioned above slip?

Hi I don't use the cow hitch but those that I know that do have no complaints, as far as I know.

Would not a halyard knot be better?
It is stronger than the bowline and if whipped or stitched there is no bitter end to catch the cutter stay or the shrouds.
Whip it or stitch it where the finger is pointing.
This is not a viable solution for a racer as the sail must be changed often.
It is a cruising trick with a furler.

West Country whipping is particularly easy to do. Just bend the sheet back into a loop and use the whipping with Spectra or Dyneema whipping thread and have no knots to catch on anything.

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Ramona said..
West Country whipping is particularly easy to do. Just bend the sheet back into a loop and use the whipping with Spectra or Dyneema whipping thread and have no knots to catch on anything.

Better still, a racking seizing to form an eye in a continuous sheet and a soft shackle. I've used a racking seizing in a cat bridle without any dramas.

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PhoenixStar said..

Ramona said..
West Country whipping is particularly easy to do. Just bend the sheet back into a loop and use the whipping with Spectra or Dyneema whipping thread and have no knots to catch on anything.

Better still, a racking seizing to form an eye in a continuous sheet and a soft shackle. I've used a racking seizing in a cat bridle without any dramas.

Is this what you mean?

The second method, seizing with racking turns, is the one I use.

ropeworks.biz/reader/seizing.pdf

Yes, but the answer is not that simple. (you speak Dutch?)

If you are racing and you gotta change sails in a short while, nothing gotta be whipped or stitched (seized like on the vid.) as you must cut it when you are changing sails and you have to re-tie the sheets to the new clew.
Then, only tieing the bowline in and letting the wind work for you helps.
Presume, you are not using hawsers for a sheet like presently!

The whipping or seizing is a permanent fix and is done on cruisers with furling sails which don't get changed often.
One could apply simple whipping or french whipping where you don't need a needle instead of seizing, where you do it with a needle.

... whhooopsy, time for a hand stand...


The two above, are whippings and they can be done in minutes to tie the bitter end to the line, just think laterally!





This two are seizings or stichings with a needle applied. Takes a bit longer but much stronger, more permanent.

If one is desperate and hopelessly incapable of doing the above, a few inches of electrical tape will do splendidly. It gets mushy on the sun and spoils the line but it will do. No cable ties here, they cause more trouble.

As far as the racking seizing is concerned, l would rather tie a halyard knot and seize it. This way the braking strength of the knot would be 75% of the braking strength of the line while the seized only loop would be only 40% of the line's braking strength!
A consideration when one is doing this to a sail to be used in high winds, like a storm sail.

I dont think so. The 3 short racking seizings will preserve the strength of the line. It is not permanent through the clew ring, you attach it by a soft shackle.