This afternoon I was sailing around the Woolwich and when I decided to go back to mooring started the engine. The engine started like a rocked worked well for 5 min and then slowly stopped. I thought that I was running out of the fuel. Added 5 l of diesel but it didn't want to restart. Checked the diesel filter and was full of water. Emptied and still didn't want to start. Very strange, the engine is working just fine very quite and strong ( pushing tasman 26 at 5 knots without any issues). No smoke at all unless 100% of throttle is applied.
Should is check diesel hose that goes into the engine? Maybe is some contaminated diesel from the fuel filters in it and for that reason doesn't want to start. Probably some water. I also Emptied a blue exhoust container it was full of water.
Started is working, 2 new 1000cca batteries, everything is good. I maybe added to much of that green stuff to decarbonise the engine and while running out of the fuel maybe that water and the chemicals damaged the engine?
I really don't know that to do.
I am often offshore racing and really must have reliable engine to go back home when weather turn ugly. Is there any trusted mechanic who can check the engine and make it sexy who is not far from Woolwich? If you guys know some please send me the details. I really want to make sure that engine is working fine otherwise I can end up in trouble in the middle of the ocean. Glad that this happened in Woolwich not outside the heads...
Thank you guys for your help in advance.
Stay safe.

Stop water getting into the fuel. Most important.
Stop any dust/rubbish into the fuel, stop any air leaks into the fuel lines.
You should have a glass fuel filter, and you should check it (if there is a meniscus and water).

Once you have that fixed, and you check the glass fuel filter every time, then you can attend to other issues - injectors, etc. Forget offshore racing until your diesel is reliable. Do a course (one day only) on maintaining and caring for a marine diesel engine.

Thank you.
Yes it is a glass fuel filter with a screw in the middle. I have unscrewed and emptied it. Now only clean diesel is in filter. It was full of water and those chemicals that should decarbonise the engine.

I will also unscrew the diesel hose from the engine and empty it till pure diesel comes. Than will try to start with either. If doesn't start I will call a mechanic. Hopfuly someone from Sydney will recommend the specialised yanmar mechanic.
Shame the engine was actually running better than ever after the chemicals I added to the fuel to decarbonise the engine. 6knots without any issues at 70% throttle. Very impressed with the engine.

I hope I didn't destroy the engine..

I will also unscrew the diesel hose from the engine and empty it till pure diesel comes. Than will try to start with either.

STOP RIGHT THERE!!!!

Serb, one of the biggest differences between a diesel engine and a petrol engine is the process after you run out of fuel.
With a petrol engine you put some fuel in the tank, crank away and she will start.

With a diesel engine you put some fuel in the tank and then remove ALL of the air in the system.
The system means the line to the filter, the filter, the injection pump, the line from the injection pump to the injector.
One small, tiny, teeny, wee, air bubble and the engine will not start.

Here are a few questions that will help me help you.
1, Do you have the red Yanmar fuel tank the bolts onto the engine, (6 litre)?
2. Do you have a Yanmar manual and parts list?

Here is a link to a manual. Download it, print it out twice. One copy for the boat and one for home.
sailingthanksdad.com/documentation/Yanmar-YSE-YSBServiceManual.pdf

Page 21 will give you the procedure for bleeding the air out of the fuel system. It is called air venting in the manual.

Clean fuel.
If you have the red tank, remove it, drain all of the fuel and dispose correctly. Remove the fuel cock (Page 21 in manual) and you will see an in tank primary filter. In an emergency you can blow air through this(reverse direction and low pressure) and clean it up, but I suggest you order a new one as the one in there has probably never been changed, A new filter will come with a new o ring. Tie arag on the end of a stick and as well as you can clean the interior of the tank.
Glass bowl filter, Remove, clean and replace with new filter element. Add a few litres of fuel to the tank. Now, you have clean fuel with no water, additives or gunk. There is no short cut here.

Bleeding system.
Luckily the YSE Yanmars are about the easiest small engine to bleed.
Follow the instructions on page 21 of the manual.

Pump Adjustment.
On page 40 of the manual there is an explanation of how to reset the fuel pump delivery valve. T
his is regular maintenance on these engines and should be done every couple of years.
It is not so clear (because of the translation from Japanese) and I have rewritten a simplified version and will post tomorrow.

gary

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garymalmgren said..
I will also unscrew the diesel hose from the engine and empty it till pure diesel comes. Than will try to start with either.

STOP RIGHT THERE!!!!

Serb, one of the biggest differences between a diesel engine and a petrol engine is the process after you run out of fuel.
With a petrol engine you put some fuel in the tank, crank away and she will start.

With a diesel engine you put some fuel in the tank and then remove ALL of the air in the system.
The system means the line to the filter, the filter, the injection pump, the line from the injection pump to the injector.
One small, tiny, teeny, wee, air bubble and the engine will not start.

Here are a few questions that will help me help you.
1, Do you have the red Yanmar fuel tank the bolts onto the engine, (6 litre)?
2. Do you have a Yanmar manual and parts list?

Here is a link to a manual. Download it, print it out twice. One copy for the boat and one for home.
sailingthanksdad.com/documentation/Yanmar-YSE-YSBServiceManual.pdf

Page 21 will give you the procedure for bleeding the air out of the fuel system. It is called air venting in the manual.

Clean fuel.
If you have the red tank, remove it, drain all of the fuel and dispose correctly. Remove the fuel cock (Page 21 in manual) and you will see an in tank primary filter. In an emergency you can blow air through this(reverse direction and low pressure) and clean it up, but I suggest you order a new one as the one in there has probably never been changed, A new filter will come with a new o ring. Tie arag on the end of a stick and as well as you can clean the interior of the tank.
Glass bowl filter, Remove, clean and replace with new filter element. Add a few litres of fuel to the tank. Now, you have clean fuel with no water, additives or gunk. There is no short cut here.

Bleeding system.
Luckily the YSE Yanmars are about the easiest small engine to bleed.
Follow the instructions on page 21 of the manual.

Pump Adjustment.
On page 40 of the manual there is an explanation of how to reset the fuel pump delivery valve. T
his is regular maintenance on these engines and should be done every couple of years.
It is not so clear (because of the translation from Japanese) and I have rewritten a simplified version and will post tomorrow.

gary

Gary you are my man. Thank you so very much. What I will do is call my friend mechanic and ask him to service the engine in from of me. Like this I can learn how to do it. In addition, I have noticed a bit of salt on the top of the engine, logically it could be that some sort of seal is leaking and a sea salt is building.
I hope a good mechanic will be able to restore this little tiger engine.

Another stupid thing I have done is that I didn't shout the batteries down ( 1-2-both-0) is still on both and many instruments are still working ?? (gps pumps etc) but rain here is si strong it just doesn't stop. Battery will get empty ..??????
Going in an hour to fix that.. I am a but surprised how stubborn can diesel be to start

The water in the fuel has probably just happened in the past few days with all that rain we have had. If you have that tank on top of the engine the fuel cap will not stop moisture entering the tank. Takes bugger all water to stop diesels and marine "engineers" don't seem to be able to grasp the idea that boats go to sea. My fuel tank is a SS unit with a screw filler on top. I have made a cap that fits over it to keep off condensation. Yesterday I ran my hand over the top of the tank and it was wet. Even my outboard motor tank on my tender has a plastic cap over the screw lid but I still had problems with water during the week!
Clean the whole system as Gary has said. The fuel system has to be spotless and no air or water. The additives did not cause this problem, just water.
After a day of running this engine and back at your mooring, before you shut down, lift the engine cover and crawl around with a torch and check everything. If you have plastic pipe or copper tubing in the cooling system check for leaks. there maybe a pin holes spraying water across the engine. Check hose clips are not broken. Run the engine at more reasonable RPM and forget about trying to maintain hull speed!

A good video on diesel contamination.

Hi Serb,
You have haven't told me whether you have the small red Yanmar fuel tank.
That filter is important and most people don't know it is there.
Here is the simplfied adjustment page .
Print it out and keep it.
Gary

It's good that you've had the engine looked at and problem hopefully fixed - but dont forget this valuable post-service information from Ramona-

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Ramona said..

"After a day of running this engine and back at your mooring, before you shut down, lift the engine cover and crawl around with a torch and check everything. If you have plastic pipe or copper tubing in the cooling system check for leaks. there maybe a pin holes spraying water across the engine. Check hose clips are not broken. Run the engine at more reasonable RPM and forget about trying to maintain hull speed! "

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garymalmgren said..
Hi Serb,
You have haven't told me whether you have the small red Yanmar fuel tank.
That filter is important and most people don't know it is there.
Here is the simplfied adjustment page .
Print it out and keep it.
Gary

Done!
I called an old school tiger who helped me with this. What We found strange was that we didn't have diesel coming to the engine.

We breed filter (the screw on the top of the filter) and than he done something to an injector with shifter. Now is working OK. I added 30l of fresh diesel and the engine is working just like a sowing machine. He has been working on the diesel engines for more that 40 years and he told me that mine 3bgibe is on the 110%.

Glad everything is OK now. One other thing I am not sure about is that an exhoust blue plastic container was full of water and I have emptied it. I am not sure if watwr should be in or not..

Thanks tigers

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Serb1980 said..



Glad everything is OK now. One other thing I am not sure about is that an exhoust blue plastic container was full of water and I have emptied it. I am not sure if watwr should be in or not..

Thanks tigers

There should be some water in it but just be aware that if you continually crank the engine trying to start it and that you have the raw seawater cooling valve open,, you will eventually fill your exhaust and possibly engine cylinders with water as without the engine running,, there is no exhaust pressure from the engine to clear the water.

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One other thing I am not sure about is that an exhoust blue plastic container was full of water and I have emptied it. I am not sure if watwr should be in or not..

Thanks tigers

Unless someone says otherwise, that "exhaust blue plastic container" is the muffler. Yes, it should have water in it. You will not damage it by emptying it, and it will eventually fill again with the water venting in the exhaust. I suggest you fill it before it fills itself.

When you replace it, make sure it is lower than the engine. You want to make sure that there is no chance the water will run back into the engine. If it does, it will rust and seize the piston(s).

Thank you guys. Appreciate your knowledge and time here.
Tomorrow going for a nice sail around the cockatoo or goat Island, I like to sail when wind is strong. I feel that I am learning faster and than under normal conditions I csn sail more confidently. Will use a small gib only. If rain stops ofcourse.

Thank you again my tigers and stay safe!

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garymalmgren said..
Hi Serb,
You have haven't told me whether you have the small red Yanmar fuel tank.
That filter is important and most people don't know it is there.
Here is the simplfied adjustment page .
Print it out and keep it.
Gary

Done. Had a bit issues to start the engine but then once was warm I actually cracked the injector connection on the head of the engine and air came out with a bit of diesel.

Now it starts just like before on 15% of throttle without the either...

Happy got my yanmar back! Offshore here I come!!!!!!!! Jacket and pants are ready

Thank you guys

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Serb1980 said..

garymalmgren said..
Hi Serb,
You have haven't told me whether you have the small red Yanmar fuel tank.
That filter is important and most people don't know it is there.
Here is the simplfied adjustment page .
Print it out and keep it.
Gary

Done. Had a bit issues to start the engine but then once was warm I actually cracked the injector connection on the head of the engine and air came out with a bit of diesel.

Now it starts just like before on 15% of throttle without the either...

Happy got my yanmar back! Offshore here I come!!!!!!!! Jacket and pants are ready

Thank you guys

Mate, you have got it back AND you now have the knowledge to sort it again if needed, a win on all fronts.

When you say he did something with a shifter. Do you understand what he did and why? So you can do it again if need be. I would say he loosened or "cracked" as they say the injector. To bleed the air out.
Good point from Jolene about flooding the engine with salt water. I have definitely heard this happening to people. If I am having problems starting the engine I close the sea cock after about 5 tries. Open it again quickly when the engine starts.

Thanks for the photos Serb.
Ah, the beauty of an old YSE.

If you look at the front of the engine you will see a small tee handle sticking out from a triangular plate.
It is half hidden behind the main power take off pulley.
That is your oil filter. I rotate mine twice before start and twice after shut down.
At your haul out, when you do an oil change, I suggest you remove the 3 bolts, pull the whole filter out and wash it in kerosine.
Do this with the oil drained. Basic maintenance.

Gary

Yes....

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garymalmgren said..
Thanks for the photos Serb.
Ah, the beauty of an old YSE.

If you look at the front of the engine you will see a small tee handle sticking out from a triangular plate.
It is half hidden behind the main power take off pulley.
That is your oil filter. I rotate mine twice before start and twice after shut down.
At your haul out, when you do an oil change, I suggest you remove the 3 bolts, pull the whole filter out and wash it in kerosine.
Do this with the oil drained. Basic maintenance.

Gary

Now new problem....on the left side just under the air intake pipe on the engine block there is a valve that can be turned and was a bit loose. Before cleaning and decarbonising the engine that valve was dirty as but just a little bit of the smoke would come out if engine was reving like mad. Now smoke is come out very strong and it feels that engine is on fire. I tightened the valve and completely bloked it with a screw. Now there is no more smoke coming out.

Can someone tell me what is the valve for? Sorry I don't have the picture now but will upload one as soon as I get on the boat.

I hope I didn't made any damage to the engine. It was impossible to cruse with my wife and kids on board with that much smoke. I got scared and thought that alternator is burning but it was from that valve..
In addition, when I start the engine my voltmeter is showing 12.8 v nothing really change. Solar panels are charging the batteries. It think it should be atleast 13.4v when alternator is turning. Should I get it off and bring to a friend who is auto electrician to check it? If alternator is not working, is it OK if only panels are keeping batteries on 100%. My batteries are 2x 950cca. 7 months old. I have an electric converter connected to my batteries so I can put my coffee mashine on when cruising (2000w).

Last thing, is the engine oil the same for the gearbox? If not how can I change it and which oil goes in and the quantity ofcourse.

Keep in touch

Thank you my savers!

Sounds like you have not got 12v going to the fields terminal on the alternator. When you apply power [start switch] there should be a light showing on the starter panel that goes out when the engine starts. Check the bulb is not blown or there is a break in the wire.

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Ramona said..
Sounds like you have not got 12v going to the fields terminal on the alternator. When you apply power [start switch] there should be a light showing on the starter panel that goes out when the engine starts. Check the bulb is not blown or there is a break in the wire.

Thanks, that light is always on as soon as I turn key ones. I have installed a voltmeter near the key and the light and it always shows 0.2 v less than other voltmeter on the board. It looks that I have loss of current somewhere. For example in summer when days are sunny board is showing 13.1v 100% charged batteries but key voltmeter is showing 12.9. As soon as I put the engine on nothing g really change, I fact the voltage drops down to 12.8 on board or 12.6 near the key.
I am sure that alternator is not charging properly. It should be 13.5 atleast while alternator is turning. I have found two little wires (red and black) that are disconnected among the other thick wires.
I will investigate if any current is there. Maybe is just for the light.

Now I would like to ask for and idea. Can you gave me an idea how to make a box that could be fitted on the top of the air intake to make it a bit more quieter but still sucking the air. It is annoying when revs very hard. Neighbours will kill me one day. In the sane time trying to make as more comfortable as possible to attract my kid on the boat. Hate seeing them playing I pads and all this **** games at home instead enjoying the nature!

Thanks for help.

Hi Serb

You engine and gearbox have the same oil. (page 11 on the manual).
I use el Cheapo multigrade.

As Ramona has suggested , CHECK ALL CONNECTIONS.
You are checking for loose connections, greenish corrosion and oil on connections.
Pull the plugs apart (one at the back of the ignition switch 6 pin and one that plugs into the alternator) and spray with WD 40 and wipe away any oil.

Here is a copy of the standard YSE wiring diagram that I made. The P numbers (P 1 etc) are my tags so ignore that part. The wire colours on the drawing are standard.

Don't really understand your post about smoke, but the valve under the engine is the raw water drain. You use that when you remove the head in situ. If you drain, water doesn't dribble into the push rod galleries and then into the sump.
Are you saying the smoke is coming out of that valve?

As for suction noise. You just have to live with it. I have no silencer at all.
As for kids and iPads. Welcome to the future.
Gary

The valve is possibly the decompression lever, any info on that would be great, cant really figure mine out, same engine.

A decompression lever just opens the cylinder head to allow the air to escape without being compressed. It is used when hand cranking, so that your effort initially is to get the momentum going, and after that you can close the decom. lever and after a few more spins the engine should start. I found a fully charged battery to be far less effort. I used to have a YSM8 engine, and the manuals were online, freely available.

Hi guys,
.thank you for your help. Today again I had some smoke coming around the engine. I think that engine is carbon free after all this additives but it is possible that now engine is leaking oil and the worm block is burning it and makes a smoke. I am not sure...
Now today I took a big empty can of carburettor cleaner removed bottom filled with sponge and connected to the air intake. The difference is significant. Engine is so quiet that you are not sure if is running

I did that once. The sponge got sucked into the engine and was obviously burnt.
It would be OK if acoustic foam was on the sides of a funnel or elbow type box, but only if it cannot fall into the airway.

Serb, smoke coming from around engine sounds to me like discharge from the crank case breather, as you suggest from all the additives decarbonising the engine. Keep the oil up to it, and continue to show it no mercy I'm not sure if those little motors have a propensity to run away but it will be spectacular

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woko said..
Serb, smoke coming from around engine sounds to me like discharge from the crank case breather, as you suggest from all the additives decarbonising the engine. Keep the oil up to it, and continue to show it no mercy I'm not sure if those little motors have a propensity to run away but it will be spectacular

And terrifying. Make sure you can reach the decompression lever quickly or have something to block the air intake.

K.

Might be useful to explain what a diesel runaway is to the unaware in case there are any unaware - there are plenty of links some with acerbic content.............this one below is reasonable. A rare event but needs to be shutdown quickly. Air intake blocking the most common advice - eg tennis ball or whatever suits your intake and blocks it, but won't get sucked into it. Decompression lever activation could cause valve damage. Avoidance in the first place is the best plan - correct lube oil levels etc.

www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/62576-runaway-engine/

Yes, exactly ?? %. I made it in such a way that sponge can not get stuck in the airway. Really happy how quite engine is now especially when engaged in gear. It really feels strange to not be able to hear the engine.

Still struggling with this smoke, it is not significant like before, but there is some. Before was really bad. One would say that engine is on fire. I added into the engine oil one product called stop smoke made by nulon and I hope it will restore old seals and stop oil coming out of the engine block. This stuff is thick like a honey and made the engine even more quieter.

Next thing is an alternator. I want to take it off and bring it to an auto electrician to check if works. To me it just doesn't make any sense that voltage is 12.8 before starting the engine and after is 12.6 and doesn't move up while engine is on. It should show 13.4 at least.
I think that panels are charging the batteries only.

Keep in touch

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r13 said..
Might be useful to explain what a diesel runaway is to the unaware in case there are any unaware - there are plenty of links some with acerbic content.............this one below is reasonable. A rare event but needs to be shutdown quickly. Air intake blocking the most common advice - eg tennis ball or whatever suits your intake and blocks it, but won't get sucked into it. Decompression lever activation could cause valve damage. Avoidance in the first place is the best plan - correct lube oil levels etc.

www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/62576-runaway-engine/

The type of runaway I was alluding to is a symptom of worn rings and cylinder liner, which allows unburnt fuel to bypass into the crank case ie fumey motor and also can allow the fuel laden lubricant to bypass the rings and combust .......
I don't know if those little motors have enough power to create that effect