I?m just interested in finding out what self steering wind vanes people have.

Currently I?m doing some research to work out the best type for me and my
clansman.

I am on a budget as spending $5K on a product that is worth ? of my boat value would be hard to justify.

I have found the following websites/products via google so far?
- southatlantic.com.ar ~$2400
- selfsteering.com (norvane) ~$2000
- mrvane.com (Y&B standard) ~$1900
And I have emailed a couple of other companies for quotes.

Appreciate any guidance or any past experiences.

Well I'm a windvane fan and my yacht spends about 95% of its time under a windvane. There is no helmsman on this planet that can steer as well as a good vane. Even on short tacks I engage the vane. I have used it in the river too but there are too many variables there. When I go fishing and hove too I use the gear to hold the boat in a stalled position just off the wind.

The Clansman will be an easy boat to sail with a windvane.

There was a Monitor on eBay recently for $2500 but did not get a bid. Monitors are excellent a long with several other well known ones. Mate just bought an old Fleming off eBay for $500. I built my windvane, its a replica of a Monitor but with better more modern stuff that you can do when you make your own. Modern materials for bearings and gears are now readily available. This is the second one I have built and I call it the Mark 2 mod 5 as you can make improvements all the time. Probably cost me close to $200 as I did not worry about costs. The labour is the killer, there are many, many hours of work involved. Mines mostly Stainless with a mixture of Delrin and ss ball bearings, Delrin gears.

I'm part of a windvane forum that you can find here, I'm Ramona on that forum as well, photos of the new one too although there have been changes since that was posted.
cruisenews.net

Manufacturers of the major builders on that forum too.
[URL=.html] [/URL]

Use plastic guard rail mounts between the SS and aluminium. Check out the photo above.

While a vane offshore is obviously an advantage they are still perfect for inshore use. I sail solo 99% of the time and have no qualms about raising and lowering a spinnaker while the vane steers. Reefing is easy too, the boat will alter course when the main is eased and topping lift raised but instantly returns to course when the main is retrimmed. Sailing up along the beach here with a gusty Westerlie the boat seems to change course erratically but when I hand steered I found I could do no better and put the vane back on. Sailing through the fishing boats its easy to position yourself to keep a good look out. The one downside of a vane is its hard not to sit there and just watch it all day!
The secret to easy operation is having the adjustment for the vane angle back to your your normal seating position so you can see where your going and hold the tiller and cleat off the control lines. I use a timing belt on mine.

This is a video of my first unit. Its based on a Walt Murray design which uses a Z crank. New one is much different and uses a bevel gear instead of the Z crank. I have plenty of good quality video of my new unit but just too lazy to upload.

I love the fish flapping around in the bucket Ramona.

I am going to keep my eyes out for a good priced vane and work out how to setup my electric tiller pilot.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll keep looking for a second hand one and hopefully something comes up before I slip my boat in a couple of months.
If you here of anything or know someone just pm me some details.

HaveFun said..

Just returned from Mackay after a pleasant sail from Sydney and enjoying a catch up with Cisco whilst in Bundaberg. Hope you can join us next year mate. Now for the question. How is a wind vane best fitted to a boat with a spade rudder? Any experiences?

If it is a spade that is transom hung, it is a simple matter to fit a trim tab with an extended axle, to the trailing edge of the rudder.

On top of the extended axle, a lever is fitted which has a link bar attached to a lever on a wind vane axle so as to reverse the direction of thrust. The wind vane is coaxial with the rudder.

The wind vane needs to be able to be free wheeled or fixed to it's axle so that while trimming and setting course, the vane finds wind direction and once course is set, it is clamped or otherwise fixed into the system and thereby takes over the steering of the yacht.

Sensitivity can be adjusted with counterbalances on the wind vane and variable points on the length of the lever/s.

That is the best way I can describe it in English without a drawing. For yachts with vertical transom hung rudders with or without a skeg, this is the simplest wind vane self steering system you could have.

From Wikipedia:-
Another version of wind vane self steering on sail boats is known as the vertical axis vane and usually, because of the inferior power it has to its Servo Pendulum cousins it makes use of a trim tab hung off the rudder to control the course of the boat. The vane spins at right angles to the ground and can lock to the trim tab in any desired position, as the boat falls off the wind the vane will be turned by the wind and will take the trim tab with it which in turn causes the rudder to move in the opposite direction and thus corrects course. Generally self steering like this, with a trim tab can only be used on boats with transom (or aft hung double enders) rudders as the trim tab needs to be mounted directly to and aft of the rudder to produce the desired effect, and of course has to be controlled even as the rudder swings side to side. This is typically accomplished by use of a slotted bar in which the connection to the vane assembly can slide in as the rudder turns. These self steering systems are generally simpler and are thus easier to set and adjust course as they don't make use of lines controlling the rudder but control it more directly through solid linkages.[2]

Hydrovanes are about $7000 landed in Australia. They have no power assistance and need large vanes to steer downwind in light conditions.

Stick with a servo pendulum like a Monitor or a Fleming. If you look at a chart of all the manufactured units they use pretty much standard dimensions and ratios, the only variation is sometimes just the bearings used. Even the gears when they are Delrin look like they come from the same catalogue. Old Flemings, Aries cast there own gears.

claverton - The Z crank vane is an easier build and the original Walt Murray design could be built for $20 worth of plumbing pipe[at the time] with just hand tools. Up wind just brilliant, but once past a broad reach they would wander a bit because there is little feedback to the servo. This could be tuned out with a bit of fiddling of the angles of the crank.
Bevel gear models have automatic feedback because of the direct connection with the gears, the gear drives back the servo to the neutral position so there is no over correction so the boat steers straight downwind. Upwind they are the same as a Z crank. The building is more difficult and a metal lathe is pretty much a necessity unless you can shop and buy standard size bearings etc.
My mate bought that Fleming that was on Afloat. Has had to update some bearings and straighten the control rod but is set up ready for a test sail now.
The unit I built is held on the stern to a ss bracket by two bolts. I can hold the whole unit in on hand while bolting it on, probably 10 to 12 kilos.

HaveFun - My rudder is almost a spade rudder, if you mean a transom hung spade then its no different, my gear would fit on a normal transom hung rudder vessel. Search the manufacturers web pages and they will have photos of their products on all sorts of boats. Youtube has hundreds of videos as well.

Thanks Ramona that's interesting ... I wondered whether bevel gears had an advantage and now I know. Your friend I think got a good deal for $500.

Do a search on the guy who put that Currawong vid up and check out his latest vid. I think he might be into metal work as he now has a you beaut door rather than washboards.

claverton said..

Thanks Ramona that's interesting ... I wondered whether bevel gears had an advantage and now I know. Your friend I think got a good deal for $500.

Do a search on the guy who put that Currawong vid up and check out his latest vid. I think he might be into metal work as he now has a you beaut door rather than washboards.

Nice bit of work. I personally prefer the factory job as it keeps the cockpit clear and I like to view the computer screen from my normal seating position. I do have another set the previous owners used on Syd/Hobart races that does not have the heavy top section.
The young bloke who bought the cheap Fleming is also a bit of an artist when it comes to SS work.

For those that are interested, it looks to be that Sea Feather have gone back into production.

www.sea-feather.co.uk/

SirJman said..

Got a quote from Sea Feather today for a "Sea Feather Mk5" - The price, excluding the shipping cost is $1945.00 GBP.

This is a bit more than I wanted to spend so I'm going to keep looking.

If I was going to buy new it would be a Fleming. Not sure if they are still an Australian company or not. Jessica used one!

Just perusing my pictures of the Sea Feather system, the early models use the Z crank through the slot system where as the later have the bevel gears.
The Poms like them on the Jester forum, forums.ybw.com/index.php?forums/jester-challenge.71/ mainly because they are locally made and parts are readily available and have been successful in previous Jester like events. By the time you converted that price and added freight you would be in Fleming territory. I know which one I would buy.
That Clansman wont take much to steer it anyway. The length of time this thread has run should have been long enough for you to have built your first set of gear.

www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/gympie-area/boat-accessories-parts/wind-vane-self-steering-pacific-light-auto-pilot/1025317408
These use the Z crank in the slot method [its under the plastic cover]

SirJman, come to think of it that Pacific Light that Ramona has linked to might be worth a look at (I'd double check that this unit has and not a Z crank first). You'd need to check if those mounts fit the sheer of a Clansman transom. If not simple matter to get new mounts but it will cost. I don't know about his asking price...

On his website he rates those units up to 2500kg displacement which is a bit smaller than a Clansman. But given the good tracking of the full keel and large rudder of the Clansman you'd think it would steer under its weight (if you know what I mean). Clansman has a bit of overhang on the stern so the lighter 12kg Pacific Light would be an advantage. Pacific is about 18kg's and the smaller Flemings I think are about 20kgs. Monitors etc are a lot heavier than that. Or build one like Ramona's! I think he said he's is under 10kg's.

You don't want to buy a second hand one, you don't want to buy a new one because you're not Jessica, and you don't want to have a crack at building one yourself. Doesn't leave many options.

I have a Windpilot Pacific with wheel drum for sale, excellent condition $2700. 5 year old and little use. In Fremantle if you want to see.
Cheers, Toby.