Missus and I went sailing yesterday. Virtually no breeze 5 Knts ?. "What a useless sailing day"Says I.
"No probs"says Missus " I'll nick down and make us a coffee". So she does.
All the canvas was out and at least we were making headway.
We get to the top end of Pittwater and things suddenly change. out of nowhere the breeze increases
to 15 knts and quickly increases to 20+.
Now I know all of you blokes would quickly spring up on to the cabin top and put in a reef. But that's
not really what I can do....So, what to do ??. The safest thing would be to drop all sail. But what am I
sailing for, if all I want to do is be safe!!.
I know my boat pretty well by now and the thing that powers her is the headsail 150%.
So I says to Missus, "Here Darl, take a couple of turns off the headsail sheet winch and pay out while I
wind in the furler". I bought her closer to the wind to depower the sail and we did just that.
So I wound her in to about 60% cleated the sheet and we sailed on that trim for rest of the day. Mind you
when sailing downwind the headsail just flapped about, so I furled it and just used the mainsail.
So what did I do right.????

I've heard Pittwater can create "bullets" like that from out of nowhere, I guess being vigilant helps a lot.
Sounds to me like you did most things right Sam!

If it had of been my boat, I would've initially eased both sheets or pointed high into the wind (if possible) as you did, but I if I thought the wind was going to hang around for too long for all canvas to be up, I would be looking to reef the main and furl the heady slightly.
All boats are different, if looks like the wind is going to stay too strong for a while or even strengthen, I'd drop the main and put a furl the heady - that's just how my yacht seems to prefer it.
My boat likes lots of wind! I will usually put the first reef in the main at 20 knots +.

As I said, you did most thing right Sam!

How was the coffee and is the first mate getting used to heeling yet?

Coffee is always welcome NZ. Missus is game to try anything. She loves the fresh air of the sea.
The movement of the boat does not worry her one bit, neither does the heeling as long as it's not
eccessive. Fortunately she, nor I, suffer from seasickness and that really helps.
She does however get a bit concerned if she thinks we're out of control, which is why I take positive
action when the wind comes up. Sailing "on the edge" is not something I'm going to indulge in.
I'm happy if she's happy. And to have her come along and crew every time I go out is fantastic.
We must love each other!!!!

You did exactly what you are supposed to do on a masthead sloop with large headsail and small main. Before furlers, as the wind increased, the headsail would be changed down to a smaller size. The 150% is a Genoa jib, meant for light winds. If it were a hanked on sail, it would be made from lighter cloth.

Balance is what dictates the point at which you change tack and start reefing the main, once the headsail is reduced to say, 80%. If she is rounding up, and you have to have the tiller to the windwards side, (weather helm), then first try easing the mainsheet a bit. If you still have weather helm, time to reef.

Thanks Yara. As everybody knows, Missus and I are just easing ourselves along in this sailing bizzo, but in the
year or so we've been doing it we have certainly learnt a lot (well we think so) and there's no doubt that advice
from the forum has been a great help.
I like to post our progress now and then because I think you might be interested. If you are interested enough
to answer my questions then it's only fitting that I tell you how we're going.
Becoming an international sailor of renown is not the objective. It's just me and Missus learning something new,
and being able to take out friends and family for a safe day out and introducing the grandkids to something they
might not otherwise have the opportunity to do.
We are happy in the knowledge that we can ask about anything we are not sure about and get good solid answers.
Thanks forum.

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samsturdy said..
and we sailed on that trim for rest of the day.

That says a lot to me.
A lot of people would have upped stumps, yet you tried something and stayed out there.

Good on ya Sam, you sailor you.

SB

sounds like you did lots of things right Sam !!!!

Good on ya Sam! Everybody is on your side, elated, when you doing well.

Whoever, l picked one of your sentences to worry about.
Beside, hitting the top part of the bay and suddenly amusing yourself with increased wind is quite normal in those parts. If you know it is coming, next time just go down a bit, let out a foot or two on the main sheet then the jib so you master the heal and enjoy the ride with the main sheet in your hand at all times because that is your brake! When the puff comes just let out a bit, when it is gone, take in a bit and so on. I guess you are not working your traveller, so the sheet will do splendidly.

What l am worried about, thuss, the mention of yours, to 'wind in the furler'¿?
I hope you did not mean winding it in on the whinch, which one should n e v e r d o!
Furling -in or out- is strictly a manual operation no matter what the circumstances.
Why? Because the whinch is very powerful and you got no feeling while whinching.
You do it and suddenly your fore stay comes down and brings the mast with it.
Please, do it only manually, it is not hard at all if you consider the wind direction.

The other thing, why is reefing out of your repertoire? Is it physical or psychological?

Did you consider changing that 150% genoa for a number 2 or 3 jib or a yankee to make your life easier?

Happy sailing!



Ps: Did you get that sailing book, yet?

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sirgallivant said...

What l am worried about, thuss, the mention of yours, to 'wind in the furler'¿?
I hope you did not mean winding it in on the whinch, which one should n e v e r d o!
Furling -in or out- is strictly a manual operation no matter what the circumstances.
Why? Because the whinch is very powerful and you got no feeling while whinching.
You do it and suddenly your fore stay comes down and brings the mast with it.

So what do you do with hydraulic or electric driven furlers?

Thanks Guys. Sirgalli.....No, no winch involved. I did as forum members suggested, and that was to bring
her closer to the wind to 'feather' the headsail, then I just pulled on the furling rope?? while Missus paid out
the headsail sheet.
The reason I don't go on the cabin top to reef the mainsail is physical. I'm a bit unsteady on my feet ( NO HG.....not alcohol
induced.) So rather than risk an 'incident' I think of a way round a situation from the cockpit.
I guess also, I choose not to go out on days I know are going to be really windy. A bit wimpish I know, but,
I don't want to tempt fate.
And Yes, I have bought a book. It's called Sailing by Peter Kemp. Seems to be an oldie but a goodie.
I don't think I will change the headsail, I seem to be handling it all OK and I can always drop the mainsail and
sail using headsail only if the wind really gets up.

Oh and Sirgalli, you are right, I'm not using the traveller. Not quite sure what to do with it.
When I know what it's for, maybe I can try something with it.

In situations like this is the time when you should consult Mr Kemp!

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samsturdy said..

Oh and Sirgalli, you are right, I'm not using the traveller. Not quite sure what to do with it.
When I know what it's for, maybe I can try something with it.

there is a good basic explanation here:

www.quantumsails.com/en/services-support

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twodogs1969 said..

sirgallivant said...

What l am worried about, thuss, the mention of yours, to 'wind in the furler'¿?
I hope you did not mean winding it in on the whinch, which one should n e v e r d o!
Furling -in or out- is strictly a manual operation no matter what the circumstances.
Why? Because the whinch is very powerful and you got no feeling while whinching.
You do it and suddenly your fore stay comes down and brings the mast with it.

So what do you do with hydraulic or electric driven furlers?

On our size boats the winch will hide jams etc and break something. Having seen furlers damaged by winches, I have a rule that furlers are not furled with winches.
If a boat is big enough to have a powered furled sail it will have its own rules. I haven't seen a power driven furled sail, but I don't get above 54ft in size.

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fishmonkey said..

samsturdy said..

Oh and Sirgalli, you are right, I'm not using the traveller. Not quite sure what to do with it.
When I know what it's for, maybe I can try something with it.

there is a good basic explanation here:

www.quantumsails.com/en/services-support

Right fishmo. I read that and it seems to be a lot of effort for a bloke like me. Is it a racing thing or do
you do this sort of thing when cruising ?. I don't mind having a go...but when would I really use it ??.

how much effort it is depends a bit on your traveller setup. if your traveller is within reach and you have a good tackle system then it's pretty straightforward.

i like to think of the sails as being the primary means of propulsion and so i'm trying to learn how to be really good at sail trim. the thing is, even a relatively small trim change can make a significant difference in boat speed. if you are trying to reach a safe haven before dark or before a storm then having the skills to make the most of the available wind is a good thing. similarly if your engine or electrics fail then being able to confidently make the best of the conditions under sail is really good too...

Yes, I see your point. My traveller is really handy to get to so there's no effort in using it.
I guess I'm at the stage now that I should be thinking about the 'finer' aspects of sailing,
I suppose I've been indulging too much in just enjoying the progress and slacking off the
learning curve.
I'll read your post again and have a bash at using the traveller next time out.
I'll let you know how I get on.

I just need to start with the basics. So fishmo, having read it again. In light wind the traveller goes to windward, 'up'.
And in stronger winds it goes to leeward, 'dropped'. Is that right ??.
How does this affect steering ??.

Hi Sam,
Your traveller controls the angle of your sail to the wind.
This is called the angle of attack.

Think of a plane:
If you dont pull back on the joystick, the plane will fly straight. There is enough lift to hold the plane up, but not enough lift to climb higher.
If you pull back on the joystick a little bit, you create more lift, and the plane climbs higher.
If you pull back on the joystick too much, you stall the airflow over the wing and the plane falls as there is no lift on the wing anymore.

Pulling on the traveller is exactly the same thing as pulling on the joystick. Imagine looking straight down from the top of the mast. Your mainsail looks exactly like, and acts like, the wing of a plane.

For the purpose of simplicity, imagine you are sailing close hauled.

If you ease the traveller to leeward, (imagine the boom is to leeward off the centre line), you create less lift/drive.



If you pull the traveller toward the middle, (imagine the boom is on the centre line), you create a lot of lift/drive.




If you pull the traveller to windward too far, (imagine the boom is to windward off the centre line), you stall the wing (sail) killing any drive.





To summarise, the traveller is your horsepower control.
The reason your boat doesn't just go sideways is because under the water, as your keel is being dragged to leeward, the flow of water over it creates exactly the same lift but in the opposite direction. The end result? Your boat goes forward!

Pulling on the mainsheet also has a little of the same effect, but your mainsheet is more to set the twist in your sail, the traveller is what controls the angle of attack.

Excuse the crappy pictures, but I hope this helps!
Cheers,
SB

No no Shags, the pictures are great. I had absolutely no idea this is how it worked. I know about lift regarding
plane wings and I knew that sails worked in a similar way, but to equate the traveller with a joystick is a revelation.
So what I'm trying to do then is keep the boom on the centre line as this produces maximum lift?. too much equates
to stalling. (that is having the boom on the windward side of the centre line).
Too little (boom too much to leeward means less lift, underpowered).
Okey dokey, now there's something to try next time out. Missus is looking doubtful.

HI Sam,
Yep, you pretty much nailed it.

A good example of when the traveller is important is in strong winds.
I will use close hauled conditions again as an example.
Lets start with lighter airs. In light winds, you don't have a lot of power available, so you use the traveller to harness as much as possible. To do this you would adjust the traveller to have the boom on the centreline (or just a little bit to leeward) , increasing the angle of attack and creating as much lift as possible.
Never sheet on your traveller so your boom is to windward of the centreline. It will be guaranteed to kill any lift/drive from the main completely.

As the wind gets stronger, it is often the case you have too much lift/power and the boat starts to heel too much. You are generating too much lift/power, and you want less lift/power.
The easiest way to do this is ease the traveller. This decreases the angle of attack and generates less lift, reducing the heel angle and making the boat much easier to sail.

In heavy winds, I often have the traveller eased all the way out so the boom sits over the stern quarter. I have lots of power due to the wind strength, I will be heeled too much and hence I depower by easing the traveller.

In strong winds, when you have eased the traveller as far as it can go, then, and only then, do you ease the mainsheet to depower. (I am generalising for most boats for the purpose of simplicity)

OK Shaggy I understand that. If the mainsail is set by the sheet...twist and leach tension (all a bit foreign to me)
but assuming this is done and the wind changes, then the set of the sail is not disturbed by altering the sheet,
the adjustment is made using the traveller. Marvellous.

Ding!!! Yep, you got it.

One reason the mainsheet is needed as, weirdly, the angle of the wind changes as you increase in height. This is due to friction from the surface of the water.

When close hauled:
At deck level, the wind is slowed and bends around more to be more on your nose. As the height increases, the wind has less friction from the water, and it swings more around to your beam as well as accelerates.
I think on my boat, the wind angle at the top of my mast is 15 degrees more angled toward the beam than at deck height

So the mainsheet is needed to try and keep a good wind angle to the sail as you gain height, ie: the top has to be twisted off more than the foot.

Simple this sailing stuff isn't it??? (NOT)

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Shaggybaxter said..
HI Sam,
Yep, you pretty much nailed it.

A good example of when the traveller is important is in strong winds.
I will use close hauled conditions again as an example.
Lets start with lighter airs. In light winds, you don't have a lot of power available, so you use the traveller to harness as much as possible. To do this you would adjust the traveller to have the boom on the centreline (or just a little bit to leeward) , increasing the angle of attack and creating as much lift as possible.
Never sheet on your traveller so your boom is to windward of the centreline. It will be guaranteed to kill any lift/drive from the main completely.

As the wind gets stronger, it is often the case you have too much lift/power and the boat starts to heel too much. You are generating too much lift/power, and you want less lift/power.
The easiest way to do this is ease the traveller. This decreases the angle of attack and generates less lift, reducing the heel angle and making the boat much easier to sail.

In heavy winds, I often have the traveller eased all the way out so the boom sits over the stern quarter. I have lots of power due to the wind strength, I will be heeled too much and hence I depower by easing the traveller.

In strong winds, when you have eased the traveller as far as it can go, then, and only then, do you ease the mainsheet to depower. (I am generalising for most boats for the purpose of simplicity)

Very well put shaggy.
Definitly worth reading again for novices.

Good work everybody. So one more query......I've only just started using the mainsail, when I
hoisted it I couldn't get the luff tight. I discovered that I wasn't loosening the mainsheet enough.
When I did so, it was much better but, it still wasn't really tight ( creases at bottom).
For some reason my boom vang has been cut short and tied off in a knot which I'm sure is fouling
an eye that it passes through, resulting in the boom vang being pulled tight when the sail is hoisted.
Is this enough to not allow the mainsail luff to be fully tensioned.

When did you lubricate your mast track last time Sam?
It is easy, even if you could not climb the mast.
Grab your halyard, grab a slider for your mast track (should have one somewhere, sure) and attach a pull down line to the halyard too! Put a small rag saturated with silicone or sailcote but !not WD40! around and under and over the slider and pull it up and down few times applying more lubricant as is needed. Done.
Do not be surprised if your main comes down, after this treatment, like a greased lightning! It will be going up easier too.

Thanks sirgal. Not all that long ago I bought and used a spray can of slider lubricant. I have not
had a real good look at the boom vang 'til yesterday and found out that the (how do I explain this)
bottom block where the rope exits to the cockpit has those spring loaded cleats on it and the rope had
sort of been pre-set. So I released the rope to give it a lot more play but I haven't raised the mainsail
yet to see if that is the problem. I don't know how you are supposed to use the cleats from the cockpit, for
instance, how can you knock the rope down out of the cleats when you are some distance from the mast??.
Or don't you need to alter the boom vang while sailing.??

I doubt the wang is your woe raising the main.
The wang suppise to get more and more workout as the boom goes forward, but do not worry about that now.
My set up was the same, how one un-does it? beats me, without going to the mast? Now, l got it led back to the cockpit.
I would check the top end of the halyard and the sheaves first.
The first one is easy, just attach another halyard to it end to end and get it down gently for a looksee. After that, if the halyard is ok, turn it around so the old tail end which spent most of it's life in the rope bag becomes the new end which you attach your sail to. While you are at it, check your turning block at the mast foot as well. Lubricate!
To check the sheave, you gotta go up. No other way about it. If the sheave is rooted and you keep using it, you are up for a nasty surprise! When you check the halyard in this case, it must be frayed badly showing the obvious condition of the sheave.