Hi all

I recently asked the forum for help getting an outboard for my 11ft fibreglass dinghy, and found the perfect motor via one of the forum members (Thanks Phil!).

Along the way, somebody raised the legal issues of a tender being used for other purposes ... in Victoria, where I live and sail, the rule is that a tender can only be used within 300m of the mother vessel, or otherwise has to be registered separately and carry full safety gear (epirb, anchor, vhf radio etc depending on the waters it will be used in).

I want to use the dinghy for near-shore fishing too, so my question is one of 'custom and practice' rather than the 'letter of the law'.

Does anybody know if I can get around registering my tender if I just use the rego letters/numbers from my main yacht and display them on the dinghy hull?

I've got no problem carrying safety gear, but sometimes the bureacracy seems a bit much for a quiet day's fishing close to shore.

Not sure about Victoria but I can assure you here in NSW the local boating officer knows all the yachties and their tender numbers [if they use outboards] and is not backward in coming forward explaining the regulations. I have had phone calls from the BO ashore calling me when I have been lax in putting on my buoyancy vest when leaving the yacht.

Per NSW Govt website:
You need to register a vessel to use on NSW waterways if it: has an engine of 4kW or more, is 5.5m or longer (with or without an engine), is a personal watercraft (PWC), or needs a mooring licence or marina berth.
So, this means all the inflatables and small dinghies with under 5.1hp outboards don't need to be registered, and there's no benefit making such a craft 'Tender of.'

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Bushdog said..
Per NSW Govt website:
You need to register a vessel to use on NSW waterways if it: has an engine of 4kW or more, is 5.5m or longer (with or without an engine), is a personal watercraft (PWC), or needs a mooring licence or marina berth.
So, this means all the inflatables and small dinghies with under 5.1hp outboards don't need to be registered, and there's no benefit making such a craft 'Tender of.'

that's pretty sensible. I'm using a 2hp motor so would be ok in nsw. in victoria i guess I'll find out!

State regulations vary. On page 131 of chapter 4: transportsafety.vic.gov.au/maritime-safety/recreational-boating/licensing/victorian-recreational-boating-safety-handbook
are the exemptions.
I've had a dinghy registered, and it was about half the cost of the fee for the yacht, so about $45 instead of $90 for the bigger boat. Not a big deal either way.

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FabulousPhill said..
State regulations vary. On page 131 of chapter 4: transportsafety.vic.gov.au/maritime-safety/recreational-boating/licensing/victorian-recreational-boating-safety-handbook
are the exemptions.
I've had a dinghy registered, and it was about half the cost of the fee for the yacht, so about $45 instead of $90 for the bigger boat. Not a big deal either way.

you're right ... the money isn't a big deal. annoying to have to do it, but i guess i'll relax on those fishing trips if i do. and they can put my $45 towards the search effort if I'm swept out to sea or get boarded by one of the huge seals that sun themselves on the marker buoys

Love the difference between states
Tas - all boats $73.20
Qld - over 4.5 m is $205 and over 15m is $604.00
Only rich people have boats apparently.

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Bushdog said..
Per NSW Govt website:
You need to register a vessel to use on NSW waterways if it:... is 5.5m or longer (with or without an engine),

The quite popular Mirage 580 sea kayak is 5.8m long. Many have been paddled Botany Bay to Watsons Bay and Port Stephens to Broughton Island. No sea-kayak owner I know have ever registered their vessel.www.google.com/search?q=mirage+580&sxsrf=ALiCzsbGOurWx_nDeu3pjc-CzhhGNZTMrQ:1651716594162&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiy-fTmo8f3AhU6XWwGHffABukQ_AUoAnoECAIQBA&biw=1920&bih=937&dpr=1

Kayaks are popular in my area & the operators are astonishingly ignorant of the rules ie stand on and give way vessels, but if there not classed as vessels that would explain things

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woko said..
Kayaks are popular in my area & the operators are astonishingly ignorant of the rules ie stand on and give way vessels, but if there not classed as vessels that would explain things

As an expedition sea-kayaker, (Tweed Heads to Townsville alone + island hopping both sides of Bass Strait), I have observed many motor-boat users astonishingly ignorant of the rules. As a sea-kayaker who crews large keelboats, I continually find yachtsmen naive to the ability of a kayak (sit-in, long, sleek with a fortnights food in compartments, and not a wide SOT, thanks).Any kayak is a vessel. I had a demand for ID and a formal caution issued by the then MSB when I ignored the 'River Cats and Oil Refinery vessels only' signs for upstream of Silverwater Bridge. The triplicate I received back said 'Type of vessel - kayak/paddlecraft'. (The incident was in 2001)

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Wollemi said..

woko said..
Kayaks are popular in my area & the operators are astonishingly ignorant of the rules ie stand on and give way vessels, but if there not classed as vessels that would explain things

As an expedition sea-kayaker, (Tweed Heads to Townsville alone + island hopping both sides of Bass Strait), I have observed many motor-boat users astonishingly ignorant of the rules. As a sea-kayaker who crews large keelboats, I continually find yachtsmen naive to the ability of a kayak (sit-in, long, sleek with a fortnights food in compartments, and not a wide SOT, thanks).Any kayak is a vessel. I had a demand for ID and a formal caution issued by the then MSB when I ignored the 'River Cats and Oil Refinery vessels only' signs for upstream of Silverwater Bridge. The triplicate I received back said 'Type of vessel - kayak/paddlecraft'. (The incident was in 2001)

Maybe you can take a moment to enlighten the readers , especially " ignorant motor-boat users" here of the special dispensations padlers get under Colregs , so we can make our waterways safer.

A good place to start , is maybe the category of vessel a sea kayak falls under in our beloved Colregs. That will certainly go a long way to clearing things up.

Now this should be interesting. ??

Dear gwiongwion, I see your response and acknowledge that you are trying to say... something. I had jumped onto this thread to say that kayaks I have owned and paddled have been between 5.55m and 5.8m in length, and yet there is no requirement to register these, yet I have paddled the likes of Botany Bay to Sydney Harbour at night - but am carrying a fair bit of other gear after staring at weather forecasts for week before I go.If you use facebook, I invite you to read a post of mine, that may demonstrate to you that I am not hiring a sea-kayak as a once-a-year thing on Middle Harbour, in a vessel that is too-wide and hence sluggish. www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10161273959634307&id=680679306

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Wollemi said..
Dear gwiongwion, I see your response and acknowledge that you are trying to say... something. I had jumped onto this thread to say that kayaks I have owned and paddled have been between 5.55m and 5.8m in length, and yet there is no requirement to register these, yet I have paddled the likes of Botany Bay to Sydney Harbour at night - but am carrying a fair bit of other gear after staring at weather forecasts for week before I go.If you use facebook, I invite you to read a post of mine, that may demonstrate to you that I am not hiring a sea-kayak as a once-a-year thing on Middle Harbour, in a vessel that is too-wide and hence sluggish. www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10161273959634307&id=680679306

Hi, are perchance you a practicing or budding politician, you completely failed to answer the very simple question put. I too would love to gain the knowledge sought.

In the Victorian regulations a human powered boat is a vessel. Only vessels powered by a motor are required to be registered, etc.

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gwiongwion said..

Maybe you can take a moment to enlighten the readers , especially " ignorant motor-boat users" here of the special dispensations padlers get under Colregs , so we can make our waterways safer.

A good place to start , is maybe the category of vessel a sea kayak falls under in our beloved Colregs. That will certainly go a long way to clearing things up.

In the Vic regulations, here at pages 88-89: transportsafety.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/29527/Boating-Safety-Handbook-Ch-2.pdf
a human powered boat is a legitimate vessel.
And page 125 of it : transportsafety.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/29529/Boating-Safety-Handbook-Ch-4.pdf describes that all motored vessels need registration and the operator needs a licence.

Having a licence, means that you are aware of the rules of giving way, lights, etc. The Colregs.

It's the same as car drivers having to give way when necessary to unregistered bicycles. Safety is paramount, and not knowing the rules is inexcusable.

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Wollemi said..
Dear gwiongwion, I see your response and acknowledge that you are trying to say... something. I had jumped onto this thread to say that kayaks I have owned and paddled have been between 5.55m and 5.8m in length, and yet there is no requirement to register these, yet I have paddled the likes of Botany Bay to Sydney Harbour at night - but am carrying a fair bit of other gear after staring at weather forecasts for week before I go.If you use facebook, I invite you to read a post of mine, that may demonstrate to you that I am not hiring a sea-kayak as a once-a-year thing on Middle Harbour, in a vessel that is too-wide and hence sluggish. www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10161273959634307&id=680679306

All boats using the waterways must thoroughly understand and apply the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (Colregs).
No one is doubting that a sea kayak is a boat.

As a fellow boatman, you will no doubt acknowledge the importance of Colregs in maintaining a safe marine environment.

With the risk of repeating myself.

A good place to start , is maybe the category of vessel a sea kayak falls under in our beloved Colregs. That will certainly go a long way to clearing things up.

The answer my surprise a few here, and possibly yourself.
Try rule 18 for a start.
Yes you are included.

I didn't intend to start an argument and it's not solely kayakers that don't understand the rules, perhaps because they are an easy cheapish way to get on the water and get some exercise that attracts folks that have no idea that there are rules. If you are the skipper of a small vessel be it kayak, canoe, paddle board, row boat, dingy etc and are making your way along a Seawall and approaching an opening whether you have the right of way or not ie give way to the right, consider that the vessel you can hear approaching has no idea you are there, a displacement hull only doing 4 knots cannot stop dead. The master of that displacement vessel doesn't want to run you over it would ruin his day ! You wouldn't just randomly run out on a pedestrian crossing, would you ?

S.A rego is annually $444 for a 42ft yacht and $18 for a 3.1 RIB tender.

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southace said..
S.A rego is annually $444 for a 42ft yacht and $18 for a 3.1 RIB tender.

That's helpful to know the fee for a tender and for once the SA Govt like isn't wanting more...!!!
Cheers..

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woko said..
I didn't intend to start an argument and it's not solely kayakers that don't understand the rules, perhaps because they are an easy cheapish way to get on the water and get some exercise that attracts folks that have no idea that there are rules. If you are the skipper of a small vessel be it kayak, canoe, paddle board, row boat, dingy etc and are making your way along a Seawall and approaching an opening whether you have the right of way or not ie give way to the right, consider that the vessel you can hear approaching has no idea you are there, a displacement hull only doing 4 knots cannot stop dead. The master of that displacement vessel doesn't want to run you over it would ruin his day ! You wouldn't just randomly run out on a pedestrian crossing, would you ?

Technically speaking, the judgments of legal actions under Colregs make it pretty clear that if the displacement hull is going too fast to stop before hitting a kayak, the displacement hull is also in the wrong no matter who has right of way.

We have to keep a safe speed and reasonable lookout, and if we are approaching an opening in a seawall or something that would often include making allowances for people in kayaks, tinnies, etc.

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Chris 249 said..

woko said..
I didn't intend to start an argument and it's not solely kayakers that don't understand the rules, perhaps because they are an easy cheapish way to get on the water and get some exercise that attracts folks that have no idea that there are rules. If you are the skipper of a small vessel be it kayak, canoe, paddle board, row boat, dingy etc and are making your way along a Seawall and approaching an opening whether you have the right of way or not ie give way to the right, consider that the vessel you can hear approaching has no idea you are there, a displacement hull only doing 4 knots cannot stop dead. The master of that displacement vessel doesn't want to run you over it would ruin his day ! You wouldn't just randomly run out on a pedestrian crossing, would you ?

Technically speaking, the judgments of legal actions under Colregs make it pretty clear that if the displacement hull is going too fast to stop before hitting a kayak, the displacement hull is also in the wrong no matter who has right of way.

We have to keep a safe speed and reasonable lookout, and if we are approaching an opening in a seawall or something that would often include making allowances for people in kayaks, tinnies, etc.

Point taken thats why only 4 knots any less and steerage is affected. I wave at them nicely

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southace said..
S.A rego is annually $444 for a 42ft yacht and $18 for a 3.1 RIB tender.

WA is similar, but not quite as good as SA, $550 for a 40ft yacht / 55hp and $129 for a 11ft dinghy/ 15hp.